[BORESIGHT FIRST] Can't get Mav seeker to Align with TPOD

[jonsky7]

Just been trying the Mavs out since the latest update (4th Nov, 2.5.2.20036 Update 8)

 

If I start in the air the with the Mavs and Tpod powered up, the Mav seeker seems to follow the TPOD ok, and I can do the Auto-handoff from TPOD to Mav and launch.

 

If I start on hot the runway, and the TPOD and Mavs start with power off, I can't seem to get the Mav seeker to align with the TPOD, though the seeker does move when I slew the pod.

 

Track files included

 

Caucasus

Self made quick mission, 6 Tanks on X, one F16, no other units.

 

If I'm doing something wrong here please let me know, thanks

 

mavs2.trk

Edited November 5, 2020 by Wags

[fudabidu]

You have to manually "boresight" the MAVs first to align them with the TGP

 

- Point the TGP at a target that's easy to see.

- Switch to the WPN page and lock onto the exact same target.

- BSGT will appear on the left side of the WPN page, press it.

- BSGT will be highlighted briefly, after that the MAVs on this pylon are good to go.

 

You will have to repeat the process for the other pylon.

 

Ideally you'd do this on your way to the target. Just power up the MAVs, do the boresighting and power them off again.

[jonsky7]

You have to manually "boresight" the MAVs first to align them with the TGP

 

- Point the TGP at a target that's easy to see.

- Switch to the WPN page and lock onto the exact same target.

- BSGT will appear on the left side of the WPN page, press it.

- BSGT will be highlighted briefly, after that the MAVs on this pylon are good to go.

 

You will have to repeat the process for the other pylon.

 

Ideally you'd do this on your way to the target. Just power up the MAVs, do the boresighting and power them off again.

 

I'll give that a try, thanks

[jonsky7]

Right, I'm confused, what mode is the Mav supposed to be in? If it's in Pre I can't slew the Mav seeker onto the target the TGP is looking at.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi,

 

There are know issues of using the Maverick in PRE mode due to SPI issues. We are working on the SPI system currently.

 

thanks

[fudabidu]

Try locking the target with the TGP via TMS up (handoff will fail), then switch to the WPN page and slew. So far this has fixed a 'stuck' MAV every time for me.

[CBenson89]

Hi,

 

There are know issues of using the Maverick in PRE mode due to SPI issues. We are working on the SPI system currently.

 

thanks

 

Will the SPI fix also make the HUD targeting box slewable so it syncs up with the TGP so CCRP attacks can be carried out with unguided bombs or guided bombs?

[jonsky7]

Wags has released a video.

 

[Donglr]

I am a bit confused about this feature. Is this something that is really necessary in reality or just something to fix the current SPI issue? If this is something real my next question would be "Why? Why does tje F16 need such a proddure?" F18 MAVs do not need to be aligned to the TGP and A10 MAVs neither. The F16 already has this EGI alignment thing where you need to know the aircraft's position when aligning, which is required for no other aircraft. Both of these features, coordinate input during alignment and MAV boresighting, seem unnecessary and inconvenient for a modern jet. Is the boresighting in game required to get the MAVs to work or is this a "makes the whole thing feel more authentic"-feature? Up til now the F16 was quite fun but things like that just make it tedious.

[Crptalk]

AFAIK because of misalignment when mounting the Mavericks, every plane that carries them and wants them to be aligned with their TGP will need to boresight them. This included the A-10 and F/A-18.

 

As for why the A-10 and F/A-18 don't need to boresight at the moment as well.... who knows. Maybe it's coming later for them.

[Rhinozherous]

Also wonder if this really necessary in reality... Seems like an annoying button meshing excercise.

 

If it is needed in RL it is no wonder that the F16 never replaced the A10 :-P

[Gruman]

I dont mind the button smashing. But what I dont get why this boresight align procedere was not introduced on all airframes at the same time. Another inconsitency between the airplanes (Like the GBU Codes).

[Crptalk]

I dont mind the button smashing. But what I dont get why this boresight align procedere was not introduced on all airframes at the same time. Another inconsitency between the airplanes (Like the GBU Codes).

 

And the F-18's simplified harms.

 

[Gruman]

And the F-18's simplified harms.

Absolutly. Funny, I deleted that exact HARM part in my first draft of the message. :thumbup:

 

[Tippis]

I am a bit confused about this feature. Is this something that is really necessary in reality or just something to fix the current SPI issue? If this is something real my next question would be "Why? Why does tje F16 need such a proddure?" F18 MAVs do not need to be aligned to the TGP and A10 MAVs neither. The F16 already has this EGI alignment thing where you need to know the aircraft's position when aligning, which is required for no other aircraft. Both of these features, coordinate input during alignment and MAV boresighting, seem unnecessary and inconvenient for a modern jet. Is the boresighting in game required to get the MAVs to work or is this a "makes the whole thing feel more authentic"-feature? Up til now the F16 was quite fun but things like that just make it tedious.

 

You'll be happy to hear that position input is required for the ASJ-37, AV-8B, F-14B, JF-17, and M-2000C then. ;)

All planes have some tedium to them, and all of them have some (pretty gross) simplifications in the startup process. This is probably a good thing since not many would want the supposed 1h startup that is reported from more complex aircraft like the F-16. These are just some small concessions towards that process without going completely overboard.

[Donglr]

 

You'll be happy to hear that position input is required for the ASJ-37, AV-8B, F-14B, JF-17, and M-2000C then. ;)

 

That's funny :) Of all the aircraft I own the A10, F18, Ka50 and Gazelle have an "advanced" navigation system that needs some kind of alignment. But the F16 is the first one I encountered that needs data input so from my point of view this was something uncommon (and tedious). I even watched some YT startup guides to see how it's done on the F14 and M2000.

 

But I still wonder why it is the F16 where ED suddenly goes "full real" mode with things like boresighting and "laser codes can only be changed on the ground", when they have made fake functionality for so many other aircraft and stuck with it so so many years :dunno:

 

 

[Jetguy06]

 

That's funny :) Of all the aircraft I own the A10, F18, Ka50 and Gazelle have an "advanced" navigation system that needs some kind of alignment. But the F16 is the first one I encountered that needs data input so from my point of view this was something uncommon (and tedious). I even watched some YT startup guides to see how it's done on the F14 and M2000.

 

But I still wonder why it is the F16 where ED suddenly goes "full real" mode with things like boresighting and "laser codes can only be changed on the ground", when they have made fake functionality for so many other aircraft and stuck with it so so many years :dunno:

 

 

It is currently quite inconsistent across the various modern modules, but hopefully they'll all be brought up to the current standard that the Viper has set, as far as boresighting Mavs and such. I hope they eventually include this feature into the Hornet, Hawg, and Harrier. But my wish is that they leave it realistic (requiring boresighting) by default, and add an option in settings to disable it. That way, the aircraft is as realistic as possible by default (the aim of this sim), and it's up to the user who wants less realism to go in and tune it down, not the other way around.

[Frederf]

It should be possible to take control over missile directly in all modes, PRE VIS and BORE at any point in the process.

 

Yes this process is necessary. The A-10 also has calibration but the 16 has automatic correlation which makes calibration more critical.

 

The calibration process is quite simple but many struggle. As long as the missile and TGP are both tracking the same object at the moment the BSGT button is pressed then it's successful. It makes no difference what process was used to get both items tracking.

[Bunny Clark]

Also wonder if this really necessary in reality... Seems like an annoying button meshing excercise.

Yup, totally a real thing. See F-16CJ-34-1-1 page 444.

 

Every aircraft that translates target information between a targeting pod and Maverick has some variation on this function. As Frederf said above though, it's not as critical on other aircraft, as the F-16 has the capability to directly handoff targets from the TGP to the missile in PRE mode. You can use the Maverick just fine in VIS and BORE modes (and PRE with the FCR, which we can't do yet) without boresighting the missile, it really only matters for a PRE delivery with the TGP.

 

Why this is only a thing modeled on the F-16 right now? ED would have to say. It could be because the dash34 is declassified for the F-16 so we have readily available documentation for it, or maybe it will come for the other modules as well someday - like the HARM implementation will apparently be getting more complex for the Hornet.

 

[Donglr]

As Frederf said above though, it's not as critical on other aircraft, as the F-16 has the capability to directly handoff targets from the TGP to the missile in PRE mode.

 

That bit I dont get :huh: In an A10 you can slave a MAV to where the TGP is looking (i.e. your SPI). Yes, you then have to lock manually, but that is pretty much the same as manual mode in the F16. And in both cases if the MAV does not look exactly where the TGP is pointing you have to manually slew the MAV to the actual target before locking. So how is this different from other aircraft? It always suck when the MAV points somewhere else and you have to correct manually. Or is this because in Auto handoff pilots don't check what the MAV locked and if notligned correctly it actually might have locked something wrong? That would be crazy.

 

And thank you for the hint with the 16CJ-34, I guess I have some reading to do :smartass: What are "squibs", btw?

 

 

[Bunny Clark]

That bit I dont get :huh: In an A10 you can slave a MAV to where the TGP is looking (i.e. your SPI). Yes, you then have to lock manually, but that is pretty much the same as manual mode in the F16.

In the A-10 you can slave the Mav to the SPI, but you still have to switch to the WPN page and manually lock the missile to a target, so if an adjustment needs to made to pointing, it's pretty simple. Same thing with the Viper in VIS mode. But in the Viper's PRE mode with the TGP, it has the ability to directly hand off a tracked object from the TGP to the Mav. If this is successful there's no need to interact with the WPN page at all, the missile will directly lock on and be ready to fire. This is why there's a whole process with a pop-up message in the Viper, and it takes some time. It's not just pointing the missile seeker to the same place, the computer actually attempts to correlate the tracked object in the TGP to an object in the Maverick's tracking gate and lock on. It's a faster and easier way to lock targets, which is useful in a jet that'll be closing on the target twice as fast as an A-10.

 

[Crptalk]

The -34 makes it sound like in reality as long as the maverick and tgp boresights are close enough to compare video, the missile boresight correlator will still be able to correlate the tgp and maverick video and achieve a lock. Bore sighting makes the process faster.

[MadJiitensha]

From litening AT Datasheet that i pulled from ED forum.

One of specifications of AN/AAQ-28(V) is:

Automatic boresight

Precision target handoff

 

Sound like someone failed and wanna hide it behind REALISTIC STUFFF. noice. I do prefer working stuff over, "realistic" operations that happen once per flying year.

Having two planes with working pod, and still cant make it works in f16? wtf?

LITENING_AT.pdf

[Bunny Clark]

From litening AT Datasheet that i pulled from ED forum.

One of specifications of AN/AAQ-28(V) is:

Automatic boresight

Precision target handoff

We're talking about boresighting the Maverick, not the Lightening pod. Two different things. Lightening automatic boresighting is how the pod is able to generate precision designation points for the aircraft computer systems, and how the plane knows how to correlate HUD, JHMCS, and radar pointing with the pod.

 

 

[MadJiitensha]

Subject is : "Can't get Mav seeker to Align with TPOD" only tpod in f16 is AN/AAQ-28(V)

And AN/AAQ-28(V) have Missile boresight correlator. That automaticaly slew mavs to tpod.