Mirage F1 project update

[Harlikwin]

Speaking of "capable" beast.

 

How capable is the Cyrano IV in lookdown, and then "shootdown" scenarios... From what I reading out of the manual it kinda sucks, like 10-15km for lookdown. And it seems like the 530F can't actually be used in shootdown scenarios.

 

Can the Devs clarify?

 

Looks fine for "shoot-up" tho. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Harlikwin

[spartan2078]

it can do some LD-SD but it s not a radar meant for it. You wont have too much problems unless he s under 1000m.

[Harlikwin]

2 hours ago, spartan2078 said:

it can do some LD-SD but it s not a radar meant for it. You wont have too much problems unless he s under 1000m.

 

You got a source for that?

 

The CyranoIV can do lookdown at shorter ranges from what I read. 10-15km ish IIRC. Since instead of being a true PD radar its more like a MTI type.

 

[spartan2078]

If I remember correctly they talk about it in "Les Héros de Bagdad" when they talk about fight against F-4s

[Harlikwin]

5 hours ago, spartan2078 said:

If I remember correctly they talk about it in "Les Héros de Bagdad" when they talk about fight against F-4s

 

Yeah there are some guys talking about the 530F on a few discords, there seems to be some debate whether the missile can actually be used for shoot-down purposes or not due to its guidance methods, or if its just really unreliable in those situations. The Radar manual thats out there does indicate the Cyrano can look down, kinda, but not well. 

[spartan2078]

So... 

It s been 4 month since we last had news about the F1. Coult we have some? Like a list of weapon planned, if it is still planned for this year and if the F1CT is still a probable variant to be added after the 4 we ll be getting? 

I hope nothing bad happened to Aerges member or to the project. But it would be nice to have some news. Even to say it s still going.

[TLTeo]

 

11 minutes ago, spartan2078 said:

if the F1CT is still a probable variant

It never was. 4 variants is already a lot, so don't hold your breath for any more. At some point it stops making sense to add more variants, especially for free, just in the name of users screaming "muh capabilities".

 

12 minutes ago, spartan2078 said:

I hope nothing bad happened to Aerges member or to the project.

I wouldn't worry, they've always been pretty quiet. These last few months are no different (whether you like it or not is a whole other discussion ofc).

 

12 minutes ago, spartan2078 said:

Like a list of weapon planned

Yep knowing this would be nice, maybe with a breakdown for each variant if possible.

[spartan2078]

2 minutes ago, TLTeo said:

 

It never was. 4 variants is already a lot, so don't hold your breath for any more. At some point it stops making sense to add more variants, especially for free, just in the name of users screaming "muh capabilities".

 

They did said they wanted to but only if they could have the docs to make it.

 

3 minutes ago, TLTeo said:

 Yep knowing this would be nice, maybe with a breakdown for each variant if possible.

I want to know if we ll have magics and exocet

 

[potatoman530]

6 minutes ago, spartan2078 said:

I want to know if we ll have magics and exocet

Considering that the C-101 has the Sea eagle missile I would assume that the Mirage F-1M variant which has been confirmed would probably get the Exocet. The radar on this version upgraded from older versions to be compatible with the Exocet. Spain never used the Exocet, but in the event a war ever broke out it would have been very likely that they would have imported some from France. 

[potatoman530]

New Mirage F1 news https://www.facebook.com/AergesEngineeringSL/

[Harlikwin]

On 9/5/2021 at 5:32 PM, potatoman530 said:

Considering that the C-101 has the Sea eagle missile I would assume that the Mirage F-1M variant which has been confirmed would probably get the Exocet. The radar on this version upgraded from older versions to be compatible with the Exocet. Spain never used the Exocet, but in the event a war ever broke out it would have been very likely that they would have imported some from France. 

 

War with whom? 

[Silver_Dragon]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:32 AM, potatoman530 said:

Considering that the C-101 has the Sea eagle missile I would assume that the Mirage F-1M variant which has been confirmed would probably get the Exocet. The radar on this version upgraded from older versions to be compatible with the Exocet. Spain never used the Exocet, but in the event a war ever broke out it would have been very likely that they would have imported some from France. 

 

Spain never purchase any Exocet. The Spanish navy ships have Harpoons. Never was planned any antiship missile to Mirage F-1. 

About antiships, was harpoons on the F/A-18 Hornets and Ships.

 

[Stratos]

15 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

War with whom? 

Probably Morocco, is the most likely enemy for Spain.

[Bozon]

22 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

War with whom? 

With the Basques. With exocet armed Mirage F1 the Basque navy wouldn’t stand a chance!

[Harlikwin]

6 minutes ago, Bozon said:

With the Basques. With exocet armed Mirage F1 the Basque navy wouldn’t stand a chance!

 

Lol, yeah 3 fishing boats... 

[potatoman530]

I recently picked up a book called Iraqi Mirages in Combat a Story of the F1-EQ in Iraq by Miguel Garcia and I got to say if they ever make more versions of the Mirage F1 after the Spanish ones I think they should make some of the EQ series if they can get the data because it is a really cool aircraft from the stories I have read. 

[Harlikwin]

3 minutes ago, potatoman530 said:

I recently picked up a book called Iraqi Mirages in Combat a Story of the F1-EQ in Iraq by Miguel Garcia and I got to say if they ever make more versions of the Mirage F1 after the Spanish ones I think they should make some of the EQ series if they can get the data because it is a really cool aircraft from the stories I have read. 

 

Yeah, the iraqi mirages, much like the iraqi mig23's are probably the variants of most interest to me anyway since they saw the most actual operational combat. 

 

Not to bag on spain, since I'm not sure what war they might have fought. In morroco I guess? (honestly I have no idea if that was a joke or not)

Edited September 20, 2021 by Harlikwin

[potatoman530]

Some people may argue that an EQ would just be another guided weapon truck, but from the book I got the vast majority of missions were done with dumb bombs dropped in CCIP or CCRP or even just dumb dropped. The only large scale use of guided weapons was primarily in the tanker war with Exocets, but the option of being able to have BAZAR missiles and As-30Ls would be pretty cool. 

[Stratos]

19 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Yeah, the iraqi mirages, much like the iraqi mig23's are probably the variants of most interest to me anyway since they saw the most actual operational combat. 

 

Not to bag on spain, since I'm not sure what war they might have fought. In morroco I guess? (honestly I have no idea if that was a joke or not)

 

No, most probable war for Spain is against Morocco, we have several points surrounded by Moroccan territory.

[RedFang]

On 9/20/2021 at 11:05 PM, Harlikwin said:

 

Yeah, the iraqi mirages, much like the iraqi mig23's are probably the variants of most interest to me anyway since they saw the most actual operational combat. 

 

Not to bag on spain, since I'm not sure what war they might have fought. In morroco I guess? (honestly I have no idea if that was a joke or not)

 

You are right, I want them too ! Exocet power !

[Get_Lo]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:22 PM, Silver_Dragon said:

 

Spain never purchase any Exocet. The Spanish navy ships have Harpoons. Never was planned any antiship missile to Mirage F-1. 

About antiships, was harpoons on the F/A-18 Hornets and Ships.

 

While they never purchased any Exocets and never had the need to due to the F18 and harpoons, the Cyrano IVM radar was upgraded as part of the F1M modernization and gave the F1M Sea Scan functionality. the upgrade that allowed sea scan was the one that was given to Exocet carrying F1s. So the F1M does have the capability to use Exocets. but as you said, it never needed to.
I think it would be nice to see, especially since the new loadout limiter ED has given us.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Get_Lo

[potatoman530]

I mean this module is already going to be very cool, but Exocet Operations on the PG map would be lots of fun if only the expanded it into Iraq and Kuwait 

[Tengu]

On 9/20/2021 at 5:05 PM, Harlikwin said:

Not to bag on spain, since I'm not sure what war they might have fought. In morroco I guess?

 

In Wikipedia, the Mirage F1's "Spain" entry starts with:

 

"In June 1975, with tension growing with Morocco, Spain decided to strengthen its Air Force and bought 15 Mirage F1C that were allocated to Albacete AB. In mid-1976 there was still some tension with Morocco and Algerian and Libyan MiG-25 flights on the Mediterranean, which would lead the Spanish Air Force to purchase ten more Mirage F1C and two years later order 48 Mirage F1C and F1E."

 

As Stratos mentioned, Spain still has some small coastal enclaves on Morocco's northern coast.  There's also Western Sahara, formerly Spanish Sahara.    Detentions of Spanish fishing vessels.  (Link > Four years of Spanish-Moroccan incidents | Spain | THE COUNTRY (elpais.com)  And the Ifni war in '57.  I had no idea before tonight that was a thing.

 

In a what-if history, what is Portugal's Carnation Revolution never happened and Franco hung on another decade.  Say Spain could have bucked MacMillan's "Wind of Change" and hung on to Cape Juby ('58), Ifni ('69), and Spanish Sahara ('75) past 1975.  This might have placed the Spaniards and their brand new F1s in conflict variously with the Polisario, Moroccans and Mauritanians.  Spanish F1s probably wouldn't have expended many Exocets on the Polisario Navy though which is what I think started this little sidebar. 

 

The Moroccans also fought the Polisario in Western Sahara from 1975-1991 (including with Mirage F1's of their own).  Maybe the Polisario, with Algerian support (see Sand War), partially destabilized Morocco.  Pulling in some threads from above, Spanish involvement might first have started with concern about their citizens in Ceuta and Melilla before being pulled in more deeply.  Maybe escalating over something like SPS Almirante Ferrandiz getting strafed.  (Link > A Spanish destroyer, machine-gunned in Sahara waters by a Moroccan aircraft | Spain | THE COUNTRY (elpais.com) 

 

In these alternate histories, you could ignore the Polisario and pit Spain against Morocco.   Or Spain might take on belligerent neutrality in a multi-sided conflict with Morocco and Polisario / Algeria. 

 

Or in a more classical Cold War plot, a proxy war would develop and begin sucking in more and more material support and "advisors" / "volunteers".  The East on Algeria's / Polisario's side and the West on Morocco's side.  Look up Western Sahara / Polisario SA-6s shooting down Moroccan F1s from Algeria, Cuban interventions in Africa including Algeria, Moroccan-pro-US relations, etc to see real life Cold War elements playing out.   Hanging in the balance would be whether the a pro-western or pro-eastern bloc power sets up shop at the Strait of Gibraltar.  France would be in an interesting spot having interests in both Morocco and Algeria, the latter despite Algeria's armed independence in 1962.  France was also in that half-in / half-out phase of Nato involvement, though I guess things were mending since '66.

 

In fairness, if something like that flared too hot on NATO's figurative doorstep, they'd stomp that fire out in no time.  But we're all entitled to our "facts."  Is it any less believable than parking your DCS Supercarrier off of Poti and launching Alpha Strikes on Krasnodar?  (Live and let live guys.  Except in MP. )

 

In a "real life" timeline, once into the 90s, I guess Spanish Mirages might serve as part of a NATO scenario or UN Peacekeeping mission?

[Ala13_ManOWar]

On 9/24/2021 at 5:58 AM, Tengu said:

In a "real life" timeline, once into the 90s, I guess Spanish Mirages might serve as part of a NATO scenario or UN Peacekeeping mission?

Yep, they were deployed to Baltic air police mission, still ongoing now, before their final withdrawal. That wasn't that long ago.

 

S!

[PetRock]

On 9/12/2021 at 3:29 PM, potatoman530 said:

New Mirage F1 news https://www.facebook.com/AergesEngineeringSL/

 

@Vibora Hoping to hear some more news this week after your teaser 2 weeks ago! Looking forward to more tidbits!