RAF Panavia Tornado GR1/4

[Northstar98]

On 1/23/2021 at 1:27 PM, upyr1 said:

I hope we get the  the ADV  too the Tornado is awesome

Meh, it was kinda crap, and the initial F2 didn't even have a RADAR (and thus no BVR capability at all - you could almost consider it a downgrade from the F-4M Phantom FGR.2 from this alone).

Anyways, an early RAF/German IDS would be excellent for a Cold War set-up, particularly if we got a northern/central Germany map (which while it would be a dream come true for me, seems pretty unlikely), they'd also be good for ODF/OAF sorties if we ever got a Balkans map (and this time with RAF/Italian IDS variants).  

Edited January 29, 2022 by Northstar98
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[phant]

3 ore fa, Northstar98 ha scritto:

Meh, it was kinda crap, and the initial F2 didn't even have a RADAR (and thus no BVR capability at all - you could almost consider it a downgrade from the F-4M Phantom FGR.2 from this alone).

 

The F2 version was a sort of prototype: the production version was the F3 (discontinued in 2010 approximately) which, especially with the latest updates (compatibility with the AIM-120s), was a respectable aircraft.

 

 

Bye

Phant

[Northstar98]

On 1/23/2021 at 11:31 PM, phant said:

 

The F2 version was a sort of prototype: the production version was the F3 (discontinued in 2010 approximately) which, especially with the latest updates (compatibility with the AIM-120s), was a respectable aircraft.

 

 

Bye

Phant

Yeah, I get that, but even so the F3 wasn't that great either.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Northstar98
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[QuiGon]

21 hours ago, Tigroou said:

Digital Integration 1993 Tornado was terrible... 80% mission planning and learning, 5% frontseat, 15%WSO seat... a mud’s life

But DI developped the real mission planner for GR4 if i remember correctly. They had a strong database and add a « small sim » around it... 

add-on Desert Storm was also so intense... 

 

The mission planning stuff of DI's Tornado sim or the Falcon series is what I miss the most in DCS...

Edited January 24, 2021 by QuiGon

[Northstar98]

On 1/24/2021 at 12:09 PM, QuiGon said:

 

The mission planning stuff of DI's Tornado sim or the Falcon series are what I miss the most about DCS...

If we had a mission planner that had the functionality of the other F-16 sim, it would be a godsend for DCS.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Northstar98
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[rkk01]

Or the dynamic campaign of either, incl DID’s EF2000 or TAW...

 

...for immersion you can’t beat being part of a bigger picture, with everyone else getting on with their business, as tasked.

 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

83% planning and 10% execution sounds about right for real life. A real mission planner would be cool. But it cant be just waypoint plotter. It has to generate ground track with planned turn radii for gross weight, IAS, and weather,  at waypoint. User should be to see ground track plot and AGL mission profile. With mission computer generating fuel requirements.

[Northstar98]

On 1/24/2021 at 2:11 PM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

83% planning and 10% execution sounds about right for real life. A real mission planner would be cool. But it cant be just waypoint plotter. It has to generate ground track with planned turn radii for gross weight, IAS, and weather,  at waypoint. User should be to see ground track plot and AGL mission profile. With mission computer generating fuel requirements.

Yes, and it would also have to fit with DTC functionality. If we got something like what the other sim has, as well as the other sim's weapon delivery planner (which does what you mentioned) it would be an absolute godsend.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Northstar98
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[DmitriKozlowsky]

Military operational missions are generally planned in reverse and forward of time on target. Assuming a strike mission. Start with desired time on target of munition, and go on from there. Plan backwards from TOT (m) to engine start. Taking into account time of flight to and from waypoints, time at waypoint for weapon release, to target refuel points with time allotment, mission cell takeoff time, taxi, engine start+startup. Then from TOT (release waypoint), plan forward for time of flight to waypoints, post strike refuel, flight to base, recovery. So a good mission planner starts with time on target as locus of mission. Every experienced warrior knows that no plan survives contact with enemy, or first SAM defensive actions,  mission has to be flexible enough to allow some deviation. Targets are stacked. Meaning that multiple mission elements would be tasked with engaging same target, from different attack vectors, depending on air defense and air threats. 

Pure fighter jocks may not like the following, but air-air mission , is a support mission. DCA(CAP ), OCA (sweeps), SEAD, AWACS, Refueling, Escort, are all support missions. Strike mission is the core mission to achieve objective. Unless the strike and bomber element can get to the weapon release point, all other missions are for naught.  If SEAD fails, and strike element comes under air defense fire, pregnant with munitions, can't complete its mission. Target is not struck, and mission is a fail. If DCA escort fails to kill enemy air-air threats, forcing strike element to abort, then its a mission bust.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

On 1/23/2021 at 9:15 AM, Tigroou said:

Digital Integration 1993 Tornado was terrible... 80% mission planning and learning, 5% frontseat, 15%WSO seat... a mud’s life

But DI developped the real mission planner for GR4 if i remember correctly. They had a strong database and add a « small sim » around it... 

add-on Desert Storm was also so intense... 

Thats actually realistic. Military flight is 80% planning, 10% skill, 9% will, and 1% luck.

[Xilon_x]

 

no programmer is working for TORNADO.
The TORNADO in DCS deserves a module in high definition and completely faithful to reality with all the clickable swhitches.
in DCS I would put all 3 variants of the tornado.
but i think machi also F-104 as an important module.

[Xilon_x]

 

[Xilon_x]

FORZA ALLEATA DELL'OPERAZIONE DI GUERRA DEL KOSOVO.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Xilon_x

[Xilon_x]

TORNADO RAF

 

 

 

MACH LOOP

 

 

 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I find it a lovely aircraft. Like a squat, fat F-111. It was also described, as having , kinetic maneuverability, of an obese pregnant sow. Or was it cow. However, both Tornado and F-111 could turn inside of Mig-23. As described by F-111 pilot with a lovely set of YT videos. As strike aircraft it served NATO well. Those crews , tasked with anti-runway mission, had to carry a little bit more fuel and slightly less munition load, due to the extra weight of their brass , that they had to have. 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Tornado or SEPECAT Jaguar. Jaguar or Tornado. Tornado or Jaguar. O kraps! Forgot about Euro attack helicopters.  Lynx, Eurocopter Tiger, Augusta Mangusta.

[westr]

On 1/23/2021 at 7:37 PM, Northstar98 said:

Meh, it was kinda crap, and the initial F2 didn't even have a RADAR (and thus no BVR capability at all - you could almost consider it a downgrade from the F-4M Phantom FGR.2 from this alone).

Anyways, an early RAF/German IDS would be excellent for a Cold War set-up, particularly if we got a northern/central Germany map (which while it would be a dream come true for me, seems pretty unlikely), they'd also be good for ODF/OAF sorties if we ever got a Balkans map (and this time with RAF/Italian IDS variants).  

 

If you take the aircraft for what it was intended, a long range interceptor, it was exactly that, it had very good range, was efficient, had a good radar (in the end), amraam capability (in the end). The JTIDS system was effective, like the datalink system we know. Its funny but if aircraft like the starfighter or delta dart are mentioned they are held in high regard. Unfortunately for the ADV it seemed to come into service at a time when the emphasis was on highly manurable fighter aircraft like the Mig 29 Su27 F16 F18, and a dogfighter it was not, and sadly over time the Tornado F3 seems to be remembered as a lame duck. I have an affection for the aircraft because I think it looked very elegant, and I would love to fly it in DCS, but I have to admit if a developer announced a Tornado and said they were doing the ADV I would be disappointed, its the IDS variant that would bring so much to DCS.

[rkk01]

I’d buy a Tornado or Jaguar in a heartbeat 

Used to frequently see Jags tearing down our river estuary on naval strike training, and also in the mid 90s working near Coltishall

Would be great to get some of the 3rd party devs looking at European aircraft

[joey45]

I second that..

 

GR1 Tonka or a GR3a Jag...

[Mogster]

On 1/16/2021 at 11:08 AM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

To me the most difficult, to survive, map + campaign, that would be amazing in DCS is Baltic+Central Europe CA 1987-1991. Everytime I see old WINGS or BBC docu on RAF showing Harriers, F-4s, F-111, Tornadoes, RNFAA Bucs, F-16s running low , blurry 1970's-1980's video, low level, anti-col strobes, with blurry tree tops wizzing by. Or RAF Harriers taxing between trees with giant nets over head. Always the BBC Brit narrator reminding how in case of NATO/Warsaw Pact war in Europe, all these bases would be destroyed in first 24 minutes. Then cut to scramble, showing RAF F-4 crew jumping into their brown+gray camo Phantom, crew-chief disconnecting thick cables, then F-4 taxing. No waiting for INS to align. Thats the theater I imagine for DCS: Central Europe, DCS: Baltic, DCS: Scandanavia, DCS: North Sea, DCS: Iceland imaginary future maps. THe Russian gen 2 SAMs in DCS are from that era. SA-10 (S300), SA-8, SA-15, SA-19.

“Red Storm Rising”

4 hours ago, rkk01 said:

I’d buy a Tornado or Jaguar in a heartbeat 

Used to frequently see Jags tearing down our river estuary on naval strike training, and also in the mid 90s working near Coltishall

Would be great to get some of the 3rd party devs looking at European aircraft

For me that was the biggest disappointment of the whole VEAO shambles. They were a UK based team intending to work on UK assets and even scenery. 

[rkk01]

1 hour ago, Mogster said:

“Red Storm Rising”

For me that was the biggest disappointment of the whole VEAO shambles. They were a UK based team intending to work on UK assets and even scenery. 

Agreed - still think a Mach Loop map would be a blast… especially if RAF Valley was included

[DmitriKozlowsky]

On 1/30/2022 at 9:09 AM, rkk01 said:

Agreed - still think a Mach Loop map would be a blast… especially if RAF Valley was included

Varied terrain would be a blast. Do a Mach Loop 100 times, and it gets boring. Man needs variety.