correct as-is MARK point disappear when rearm

[flankerjun]

today i find that MARK point disappear when rearm,in MP, i have marked 6 target point, MK1 to MK6,but after landing i rearm my GBUs,then i find that i only have MK1,all the Mark poin data have disappeared

[Swift.]

This is correct, and iirc its with weight on wheels, not rearm.

[headbreaker_ger]

On 2/13/2021 at 7:29 PM, Swiftwin9s said:

This is correct, and iirc its with weight on wheels, not rearm.

 

Are you sure about that?
 

The NATOPS clearly stated:
 

Quote

The mark option is initialized to MK1 upon power up with WOW, regardless of the previous selection.

So, if I understand the system correctly, you can't mark any points while you have WOW, but it would be not really useful to just erase data? The NATOPS explicitly says the OPTION need WOW.

Is there any source-material that states that the points get erased?

[maxTRX]

I could swear I heard 'someone that knows' say it's possible to mark on the ground, not too sure about reset to MK1 once back on deck...  I'm too lazy to look it up, let SMEs do that 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Gripes323

[Bunny Clark]

7 hours ago, headbreaker_ger said:

So, if I understand the system correctly, you can't mark any points while you have WOW, but it would be not really useful to just erase data? The NATOPS explicitly says the OPTION need WOW.

My read of this is that when the system is initialized with WoW, it resets to MK1, regardless of what mark points existed before. I would indeed interpret that to mean that when the system is powered up on the ground, previous mark points are erased. 

 

And why wouldn't they be? The idea of landing for a quick rearm and refuel before taking off again is pure DCS fantasy. That's not the way Hornets are used in real life. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Bunny Clark
typo

[Furiz]

1 hour ago, Bunny Clark said:

And why wouldn't they be? The idea of landing for a quick rearm and refuel before taking off again is pure DCS fantasy. That's not the way Hornets are used in real life. 

 

 

I saw a video interview during gulf war, the pilots said that they would come back, they wouldn't even get out of the plane, rearm refuel and go straight back, think it was in the Wings Over the Gulf, first week of the operation there. And I don't recall if that was a hornet but they all did that quick rearm/refuel.

 

Don't know if the mark points should be deleted, but logic says they should save till you turn off, would be inconvenient if you are doing a quick rearm and refuel.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Furiz

[headbreaker_ger]

4 hours ago, Bunny Clark said:

My read of this is that when the system is initialized with WoW, it resets to MK1, regardless of what mark points existed before. I would indeed interpret that to mean that when the system is powered up on the ground, previous mark points are erased. 

 

And why wouldn't they be? The idea of landing for a quick rearm and refuel before taking off again is pure DCS fantasy. That's not the way Hornets are used in real life. 

 

Well the "System" for Markpoint is no dedicated System, its part of the NavSystem. The only thing that change is, that with Weight off Weels the Option is initialized and that even if you had former Selected MK3 for example you would be back at MK1 there is no word, that the whole Markpoints will be unavailable with WOW or something like that. 

The Second Point, I don't know where this comes from but Rearm, Refuel, Takeoff again is not just a simple DCS-Thing, correct me if I'm wrong but its called "Quick Turnaround" and even I admit, its mostly uncommon today, remember the Hornet is no young lady, the initial design derive from a different situation. 

I really hope someone with first hand experience can say something about that because for me the NATOPS do not state how it behaves.  

[Hulkbust44]

On 4/9/2021 at 4:28 AM, headbreaker_ger said:

Well the "System" for Markpoint is no dedicated System, its part of the NavSystem. The only thing that change is, that with Weight off Weels the Option is initialized and that even if you had former Selected MK3 for example you would be back at MK1 there is no word, that the whole Markpoints will be unavailable with WOW or something like that. 

The Second Point, I don't know where this comes from but Rearm, Refuel, Takeoff again is not just a simple DCS-Thing, correct me if I'm wrong but its called "Quick Turnaround" and even I admit, its mostly uncommon today, remember the Hornet is no young lady, the initial design derive from a different situation. 

I really hope someone with first hand experience can say something about that because for me the NATOPS do not state how it behaves.  

Read that bit from NATOPS again, it's clearly saying the markpoints are reset with WoW. It makes sense too. You can't delete markpoints, just override them, and it's very helpful to have them reset with WoW. If you needed the MK position, you would just copying the lat long into an empty waypoint.

[Recluse]

I haven't tried it yet in 2.7 but since this seems CORRECT AS IS, why does the Changelog for 2.7 say:

 

Quote

Mark points reset with WoW - Fixed

 

Not sure what was FIXED...

[GremlinIV]

The day before the patch i did a fly-over of some sites during a recon mission and recorded some mark points through my HMD with the plan to go and bomb them on the next mission, however on landing i noted all the mark points had gone.  ~I was happy when i read they fixed this.  But now from the comments above it was either already fixed prior to the patch or the patch hasnt fixed it.  As for the Natops stating it resets to MP1 this could mean it simply selects MP1 and the data is held.  I would be interested to find out what happens to waypoints when you go WOW after landing from your last waypoint of say WP4, does this stay selected at WP4 when you take off again or select WP0.  Now my interest is piqued im going to go into a mission and find out.

 

As for the undeniable value of being able to land with some target data from a recon mission being held in the MC then Rearm and fly out and bomb or while on the ramp move them to waypoints or simply right them down and use them later in a BDA brief or something (instead of doing this during RTB flight with your head down) it will come as a surprise if this MP Reset Fix with WOW is a thing.  These aircraft are hi-tech can we assume pilots get the pen and paper out mid-air and before WOW extract data from a computer and put it to paper.

Im not sure if there is a way to transfer a MP into a WP, I know they cant be included in a WPSEQ, this transfer would be useful IRL i guess.  I understand some aircraft have a removable data cartridge would this not likely hold mission data etc? also iRL they have a video pointing at the DDI so its all on tape too, would they sit through a video to get this data back, not sure on this one.

 

So the question is......

 

OK im off to check what WPs do WOW

[Sharkku]

That markpoints get erased with WOW is just so utterly stupid. If it is correct-as-is, I can only shake my head in disbelief.

[Bunny Clark]

Just tested it, Mark Points are no longer erased at all. If you takeoff and land there is no change to the Mark Points at all. If you shut the plane down and restart it the HSI/SA MK OSB will be reset to MK1, so any new Mark Points you make will overwrite previous ones, but the old ones are not erased and still selectable. 

 

On 4/9/2021 at 12:41 AM, Furiz said:

I saw a video interview during gulf war, the pilots said that they would come back, they wouldn't even get out of the plane, rearm refuel and go straight back, think it was in the Wings Over the Gulf

That segment was talking about A-10s doing killbox missions, which is a pretty different thing. Aircraft carriers operate cyclically, so there's not much opportunity for that sort of thing to happen. Any aircraft that lands is going to be on the deck for at least an hour until the next Event launch, and even if the airframe is being reused for the next Event it'll probably be with a different pilot doing a different mission. 

 

And fast turnarounds aren't nearly what they are in DCS in real life anyway. Depending on the aircraft, number of weapons, and number or crew working on it a full rearm will probably take between 10 and 30 minutes, and refueling won't even happen in the same place as ordnance loading on a ground base. The idea of landing, doing a full rearm and refuel in less than 5 minutes, then immediately taking off again to get back in the fight is totally a DCS fantasy. 

[GremlinIV]

As I had suspected - That is great news thx for testing saved me doing another recon.

 

I didnt do the thing with the WP I just know they work as you would expect, but this is good news for the MP users. a whey hey to ED.

[headbreaker_ger]

13 hours ago, Bunny Clark said:

Just tested it, Mark Points are no longer erased at all. If you takeoff and land there is no change to the Mark Points at all. If you shut the plane down and restart it the HSI/SA MK OSB will be reset to MK1, so any new Mark Points you make will overwrite previous ones, but the old ones are not erased and still selectable. 

 

That segment was talking about A-10s doing killbox missions, which is a pretty different thing. Aircraft carriers operate cyclically, so there's not much opportunity for that sort of thing to happen. Any aircraft that lands is going to be on the deck for at least an hour until the next Event launch, and even if the airframe is being reused for the next Event it'll probably be with a different pilot doing a different mission. 

 

And fast turnarounds aren't nearly what they are in DCS in real life anyway. Depending on the aircraft, number of weapons, and number or crew working on it a full rearm will probably take between 10 and 30 minutes, and refueling won't even happen in the same place as ordnance loading on a ground base. The idea of landing, doing a full rearm and refuel in less than 5 minutes, then immediately taking off again to get back in the fight is totally a DCS fantasy. 

I think, we getting a bit off-topic here and I think at the end, all of us who wrote so far cant say for sure, if the MKs get erased or not. 

 

About the Quick Turnarounds, the hornet not only flew from the boat, but I get ur point there. 

I personaly think how it is now, makes way more sense, if someone with first hand experiance proof its the other way, Im happy with if it gets changed again.