Fewer HOTAS controls in the F-16?

[dporter22]

Brand new to the F-16 and having difficulty transitioning from the A-10 because it seems there is much more heads down required in the F-16.  Most everything can be done with the HOTAS controls in the A-10, but in the F-16 there is no HOTAS radar range control, no HOTAS steerpoint control, no HOTAS master mode control, etc.

 

 

[Florence201]

16 minutes ago, dporter22 said:

Brand new to the F-16 and having difficulty transitioning from the A-10 because it seems there is much more heads down required in the F-16.  Most everything can be done with the HOTAS controls in the A-10, but in the F-16 there is no HOTAS radar range control, no HOTAS steerpoint control, no HOTAS master mode control, etc.

 

 

There are keybinds you can bind to your HOTAS. All the afore mentioned controls I have mapped to my HOTAS 

 

Master mode is an ICP but again can be mapped. The DGFT switch is HOTAS 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Florence201

[Smoked]

Two completely different jets, two completely different manufacturers...   Key bindings are your best bet.. 

[Bunny Clark]

Yah, the stick is the same, but the Viper's throttle has far fewer buttons. 

 

Many things can be done fairly quickly on the ICP. I bound the up/down switch and DCS dobber 4-way switch to my HOTAS to make things a bit easier. 

 

Radar range sorta has a HOTAS command, scrolling the cursor to the top or bottom of the display will bump the range up and down.

[b0bl00i]

A lot of hotas commands are yet to be implemented.

 

[Smoked]

1 hour ago, b0bl00i said:

A lot of hotas commands are yet to be implemented.

 

While this is true... There is no HOTAS commands for what the OP listed.... Master Arm... Steer Points... Radar Range can be increased in RWS with the cursor... 

[WHOGX5]

11 hours ago, dporter22 said:

Brand new to the F-16 and having difficulty transitioning from the A-10 because it seems there is much more heads down required in the F-16.  Most everything can be done with the HOTAS controls in the A-10, but in the F-16 there is no HOTAS radar range control, no HOTAS steerpoint control, no HOTAS master mode control, etc.

 

 

All of those things can be done or worked around when only using HOTAS controls.

 

1. Radar range is controlled by the cursor. Move the cursor to the top of the display to increase range and move it to the bottom of the display to reduce.

 

2. Steerpoints can't be cycled per se using the HOTAS, but you can instead simply select your desired steerpoint using the HSD cursor and selecting a steerpoint. As far as I know, this functionality hasn't been implemented yet in the DCS F-16.

 

3. There isn't really a need to switch between modes in the F-16. If you're doing A-G for example, you press A-G on the ICP. If you need to switch to A-A mode you simple set the Dogfight/Missile Override switch to Missile Override. Return the DGFT/MRM switch to the center position and you're back to A-G mode exactly where you left off. That's one of the best features of the F-16. You can look at an area with the A-G radar (not implemented) and TGP, then you flip the switch to Override and the radar and TGP automatically goes into A-A mode and you can do whatever you want. Then when you cancel the override both the radar and TGP goes back to A-G mode and points at the same place they did before the override.

 

As someone who has flown the A-10C religiously since before DCS World even existed, and who has flown the F-16 for the same amount of time (though mostly in another sim), I'm sure you'll come to love the F-16 once you get into the groove of things. The main upside of the F-16 compared to something like the F-18 is the avionics. They're incredibly efficient and very user friendly in my opinion, just like the A-10C. The F-16 has been neglected by ED though in favour of development of the the F-18, Mi-24 and AH-64 so there is an insane amount of features that haven't been implemented yet. Hopefully they can pick up the pace this autumn though as the F-18 gets closer to being feature complete.

[Falconeer]

2 hours ago, WHOGX5 said:

 

As WHOGX5 pointed out, all the things you mentioned *can* be used using HOTAS only

 

* Radar range change by bumbing the radar cursors to top or bottom of the screen (in RWS mode) 

* You can select steerpoints by making the HSD SOI and use your cursor control to slew it to another steerpoint and use TMS up to select it. It's fully HOTAS control that way (although not implemented yet)

* The only Master Modes you can select using HOTAS are Dogfight Override mode or MIssile override Mode, By setting the switch in neutral, you revert back to the mastermode you came from (so you are able to select 3 master modes out of 6 using HOTAS)

[Exorcet]

15 hours ago, dporter22 said:

Brand new to the F-16 and having difficulty transitioning from the A-10 because it seems there is much more heads down required in the F-16.  Most everything can be done with the HOTAS controls in the A-10, but in the F-16 there is no HOTAS radar range control, no HOTAS steerpoint control, no HOTAS master mode control, etc.

 

 

Since I don't have MFD buttons, I've bound the OSB buttons that correspond to radar range to my HOTAS, essentially making them HOTAS buttons. The UFC I have mapped to keys in an attempt to mimic the real jet, but if you map the DED Incriment and DCS switch to HOTAS changing waypoints with HOTAS will be very easy as by default DED Incriment cycles them. As far as switching modes, the real jet has dogfight and missile overrides on the throttle which allows you to go into AA mode directly with the HOTAS. AG mode requires using the UFC, but can simply be mapped to HOTAS if you want.

[Spurts]

pretty sure Radar range is an axis on the throttle, so is elevation.  

[Falconeer]

11 hours ago, Spurts said:

pretty sure Radar range is an axis on the throttle, so is elevation.  

Elevation yes, radar range no

 

It's called manual range and is used for gain control of the AG radar or manual zoom control for the TGP.

It also controls the range of AA guns

Edited June 22, 2021 by Falconeer

[SCPanda]

1 hour ago, Falconeer said:

It also controls the range of AA guns

 

Wow really? Could you explain this pls? 

[Falconeer]

6 hours ago, SCPanda said:

Wow really? Could you explain this pls? 

When in air-to-air gun modes and radar ranging is not available, the MAN RNG knob is used to select one of two manual ranges. Manual range is set to 1500 feet if the knob is rotated clockwise of center and 700 feet if the knob is rotated counter-clockwise of center. The selected value is displayed digitally on the HUD. The target is at the selected range when (1) the correct wingspan has been entered via the DED and (2) the pilot closes until the wings of the target just fill the inside of the manual ranging reticle if using LCOS, or just fit inside the funnel when using EEGS.

 

Source: www.f16simulator.net/hotas/hotas.htm

Edited June 22, 2021 by Falconeer

[Frederf]

Back in the old days when the Earth was still hot to the touch the F-16 didn't have the "funnel" EEGS gunsight. Range information was needed if not supplied by radar. Only two values were entered by rotating the range knob, I think 1500' or 700'. Why they used a knob to act like a two value selector I don't know. Maybe early on they thought about having a continuum of vales or maybe they just needed a knob control for the AG radar and reused it.

 

I think it still works on non funnel modes.

[Spurts]

thanks for the education fellas.  

 

[dporter22]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

Yes there are workarounds, but as I'm trying to learn all the new controls and systems I find there are a few important functions that could have been implemented better into the HOTAS controls which would improve pilot efficiency and effectiveness.  It would also be nice if there were a HOTAS range control and North pointer on the HSD, and if the AA missiles were labeled correctly on the SMS (why are AIM-9L and AIM-9M both listed as AIM-9LM?).

 

And why does the system still shift all my steerpoints when I slew the SPI?  I understand that that's how it needed to work 40 years ago, but it's now 2021.

 

And I just discovered there's no HOTAS markpoint control, or make last markpoint SPI, or TMS forward long to designate a SPI with the TGP (unless I'm not understanding correctly).

 

Just some opinions.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by dporter22

[Jetguy06]

16 minutes ago, dporter22 said:

And why does the system still shift all my steerpoints when I slew the SPI?  I understand that that's how it needed to work 40 years ago, but it's now 2021.

 

Just some opinions.

 

 

As far as I understand it, this is still how it works, even in 2021. You'd have to ask Lockheed Martin to get an answer as to why.

[Bunny Clark]

2 hours ago, dporter22 said:

It would also be nice if there were a HOTAS range control and North pointer on the HSD

It's easy enough to bump the range with the cursor, I doubt I would even use a HOTAS button to do it, it's fairly unnecessary. There should be a north arrow around the inner ring on the HSD, I'm not sure why there isn't right now, but the real jet has it. 

 

Quote

TMS forward long to designate a SPI with the TGP

The TGP is pretty much moving the SPI by default, unless you're in SP mode or it's slaved to another sensor. If the TGP is in a tracking mode, SPI is set to the TGP. It's a simpler system that is faster and easier to use than the Hog because it requires less micromanaging of systems. 

[WHOGX5]

3 hours ago, dporter22 said:

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

Yes there are workarounds, but as I'm trying to learn all the new controls and systems I find there are a few important functions that could have been implemented better into the HOTAS controls which would improve pilot efficiency and effectiveness.  It would also be nice if there were a HOTAS range control and North pointer on the HSD, and if the AA missiles were labeled correctly on the SMS (why are AIM-9L and AIM-9M both listed as AIM-9LM?).

 

And why does the system still shift all my steerpoints when I slew the SPI?  I understand that that's how it needed to work 40 years ago, but it's now 2021.

 

And I just discovered there's no HOTAS markpoint control, or make last markpoint SPI, or TMS forward long to designate a SPI with the TGP (unless I'm not understanding correctly).

 

Just some opinions.

 

 

 

Pretty much everything you mention is in the real jet, it's just not implemented yet in DCS. You also have to remember that the A-10C has the same stick has the F-16, but the F-16 has to provide HOTAS controls for the radar systems as well so that's why there wasn't room for markpoints and the likes on the HOTAS. However, all you have to do is press 7 on the ICP, then TMS up to mark. Then if you press ICP 0 you make that markpoint your active steerpoint. If you haven't bound the ICP to your numpad already, you should really do that. Once you get used to the DED and how it works you don't even have to look at it when inputting stuff. All you need to do is let go of your throttle for two second and you're good. I even input stuff while banking in fingertip without any issues.

 

Also, about the SPI thing, I'd argue the F-16 is more effective. In the A-10C you need to designate SPI manually and then slew sensors to the SPI manually as well. In the F-16, everything is SPI all the time. Move your ground radar and your TGP moves with it. And if you want to move the SPI back, just press cursor zero. I'd imagine the reason you SPI stays offset, even when you change steerpoints, is so that if your INS drifts and you have a steerpoint at some sort of recognizable feature (a building or something) you don't have to realign the entire INS to account for drift, whether large or small. Instead, you can simply "align" the SPI and then it stays at that offset which is much quicker. And yes, it's 2021 and we have GPS nowadays, but in a real full scale war, GPS satellites would probably be the first thing to go so flying solely on INS is still a very important ability.

 

Also, I think you're underestimating how incomplete the DCS F-16 is. I'd say we've gotten about 15% of the way so there's still tonnes of stuff left to do for ED. It's definitely a rough transition coming from the A-10C which is the most complete module in DCS.

[SCPanda]

BTW, A-10 borrowed the stick from the F-16, and the hotas functions were changed to fit the role A-10 does, air to ground. Remember, F-16 also has to do air to air, and it was designed as an air to air fighter in the first place until the air force found it's also amazing at air to ground. 

 

Tbh, F-16's hotas is probably the best among all jets in DCS. It's much easier to use compare to A-10's hotas imo.