investigating Datalink Issue

[jonde99]

We have quite big multiplayer missions, there are usually between 10-30 aerial assets both friendly and enemy in the theatre. 10-14 players (F16,18,AV8B). 

 

We have a significant issue with Datalink not working in Syria and Persian Gulf at night. It seems ok during day time missions, also is totally fine with the same scenario in a solo mission. 

 

When its not working, wingmen pop in and out, and are never marked with (A)(B) etc, in a night mission this makes keeping in check with each other really difficult. Air traces drop in an out constantly, they usually come back unknown until some un-defined donor sends an update. Also, I noticed not a single track is marked as a donor. 

 

Is this a known issue with MP on those maps? 

 

[[PTF]Ali]

F-16 datalink dropping random air to air friendly aircraft as well as enemies after take off and during match period. Some time everyone gets disappear on datalink during match for PTF team.  
We acknowledged this issue after many matches against 6 ships. 

Track file mission 1:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aYtPv2b5E4QZ7a6wYGIpPbApbu60G48p/view?usp=sharing

Track file mission 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x0xY9Ty8w8-2u6aUyPeH21ZLixNJJ3Vs/view?usp=sharing

Track file mission 3: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TRr9QtSwW7Ko6gJSjhLdrg1s_dSeBVic/view?usp=sharing
Track file mission 4: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yL_Lt7_Ms8k5oIq5GAWJVS9g748o0-o4/view?usp=sharing

Edited July 3, 2021 by AliPG

[BIGNEWY]

I have asked our MP testing team to take a look.

 

thanks

[sneakerspark]

 

On 7/4/2021 at 2:12 PM, BIGNEWY said:

I have asked our MP testing team to take a look.

 

thanks

Hi @BIGNEWY, 

 

Any intital findings on this? We are massively handicapped against the opponents during matches. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by sneakerspark

[[ED]Ben]

Hi - Are you or anyone on the network using TACAN - especially A/A TACAN. There are some channels that can interfere with datalink and cause problems like this. We are looking into this though, but we have not as yet been able to replicate the issues you describe.

 

Thanks 

 

 

[sneakerspark]

19 minutes ago, [ED]Obi said:

Hi - Are you or anyone on the network using TACAN - especially A/A TACAN. There are some channels that can interfere with datalink and cause problems like this. We are looking into this though, but we have not as yet been able to replicate the issues you describe.

 

Thanks 

 

 

Hi Obi,

 

Thank you for your response. Yes, we are using TACAN and also using the degraded channels as shown in the chart you posted. 

[[ED]Ben]

Ok, that could very well explain it. In future try to use only the channels that are marked white. Let me know if you still see the issues. Thanks

[Qiou87]

I can attest that my group has seen this same problem with SA/ Link-16 for the past 3 weeks. Each time on a different mission, created recently on 2.7 (not an old mission converted from 2.5 or prior). Viper and Hornet, same issue.

 

I had TACAN 5X for the A/A tanker the previous week. I changed yesterday to 40X which is in the "white" range. Other active TACANs were T/R 54X (for Andersen AFB) and T/R 75X for the CVN-75 carrier. So everything should have been OK. We had an AWACS and Vipers & Hornets, no one had Link-16 contacts in their SA. Our AWACS was working properly (we had a human AWACS with LotATC directing all CAP flights).

 

Any ideas how to investigate this further?

Edited July 13, 2021 by Qiou87

[Machalot]

On 7/6/2021 at 3:33 AM, [ED]Obi said:

Hi - Are you or anyone on the network using TACAN - especially A/A TACAN. There are some channels that can interfere with datalink and cause problems like this. We are looking into this though, but we have not as yet been able to replicate the issues you describe.

 

Thanks 

 

 

What's the source of this degradation? Is this a real world effect (e.g. intermod) that you're modeling in DCS?  Or is this a simism?

[briosky2]

Tacan interferes with DL?  If TACAN especially A/A TACAN causes interference why is this not in the study level manuals for game play?   It is a hard pill to swallow hearing players express their issues give track files and the testers cannot duplicate the issues.  I was just playing a single player mission Red Flag 21-1 flying against the J-11 and the DL dropped, lost the IFF of the targets but not the targets and I was not using TACAN at all

[Yaga]

On 7/6/2021 at 5:33 AM, [ED]Obi said:

Hi - Are you or anyone on the network using TACAN - especially A/A TACAN. There are some channels that can interfere with datalink and cause problems like this. We are looking into this though, but we have not as yet been able to replicate the issues you describe.

 

Thanks 

 

 

 

From what I've been able to reproduce, this is the issue exactly. If anyone on the server uses the unavailable range, it interferes with Link 16. 

 

Interestingly, it also appears that it effects both teams. If anyone, on either team is using the unavailable range, everyone within line of sight to that player experiences Link 16 interference, even if they are on the other team. This is likely why the original poster reported that during a match, everyone on the server reported the problem after takeoff. We experienced an identical situation during a match recently, and while nobody on our team had set an a2a tacan, the opposing team did have an A2A tacan set in the unavailable range. 

 

Edit: to clarify, A/A channels (1-36, 64-99) cause Link 16 and PPLI interference. T/R channels seem to have no effect. 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Yaga

[Mike_Romeo]

Hello @[ED]Obi,

I tested the datalink in singleplayer with a very light mission and the contacts still disappear from the DL screen without any reason. There are no tacans in the mission or anything. Just a bunch of aircrafts, a awacs and a su-27. The awacs type doesnt seem to have a effect on the issue. I have repeated the test several times and it looks as if the datalink contacts always disappears at the same time in the same sequence.

Datalinkissue.trk

Same test but with the JF-17. The awacs seems to have a blindzone between 270°-360° from his axis.
 

DatalinkissueJF-17.trk

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Mike_Romeo

[[ED]Ben]

@Mike_Romeo thanks - I will have a look in the morning

[ienatom]

Any news on this topic? I recently experienced the problem as well.

 

[Mike_Romeo]

2 hours ago, ienatom said:

Any news on this topic? I recently experienced the problem as well.

 

Read this:

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Mike_Romeo

[ienatom]

6 hours ago, Mike_Romeo said:

Read this:

 

 

Thanks for the answer but that's not exactly what my question was referring to. I was actually talking about the DL and TACAN interferences problem that it still seems to happen. Thanks for that discussion link anyways.

[dureiken]

Hi

I don't know if it's normal/F16 problem/DCS problem or server problem, but when I play online, on different server, I really often have DL refresh problems : my friends in green are not at the good place/altitude, same with ennemies.

And some minutes after it refresh and goes to the good place.

I often search ennemies where they are not as I see further on tacview

I tried switch off/on MDS/LVT but it's the same

 

thanks

[skywalker22]

Please, provide us a track, video or some sort of evidance. 

Anyway...

There is an issue with DL16 and loosing connection with AWACS plane. There is a thread here, where people did numerous tests, including me.

 

2. 

 

[Moonshine]

not to mention the fact that the DL cuts out (at least wont get any blue icons on the HSD for your own flight) when the plane has a different Date than the mission. Happens on marianas quite often as the shift in timezones is around 12 hours from Zulu to local, therefore the mission will have a high chance of having a different Date than the aircraft (or when flying around midnight local time).

 

However, datalink can only update the position of friendly units if the AWACS can actually see them. so in mountains and through valleys, DL might be outdated until the aircraft gets out of the terrain again

 

edit: found the bug report

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Moonshine

[Ignition]

9 hours ago, dureiken said:

Hi

I don't know if it's normal/F16 problem/DCS problem or server problem, but when I play online, on different server, I really often have DL refresh problems : my friends in green are not at the good place/altitude, same with ennemies.

And some minutes after it refresh and goes to the good place.

I often search ennemies where they are not as I see further on tacview

I tried switch off/on MDS/LVT but it's the same

 

thanks

 

Link16 in DCS updates every 12 seconds

[dureiken]

Hi

thanks for your replies.

We just made a 3 F16 DCS liberation flight yesterday, 3hours flight and I still had DL problems, one of my mate too. Only the leader didn't had it.

No TCN AA on flight.

Leader was at 1NM of me, angel 25 without mountains, and DL suddenly stop updating. I OFF/ON DL and MDS LVT but was the same. And maybe 15min later it refreshes again.

3 had the same on leader a bit later, and I had same with 3 at end of the flight.

I tried to use replay but when I launch it my plane just goes in ground maybe 20min after beggining ... are replay bugged too ?

How to correcly report that ?

 

Thanks

[dureiken]

Hi

I had friends tracks :

Leader one, seems OK : https://www.mediafire.com/file/dv9udpp99axaxyy/track_OK.trk/file

3rd one, bugged : https://www.mediafire.com/file/ui5te4vtwqoy9jx/track_bugged.trk/file

At 14:30, we are still flying in patrol, and we can see 2 with DL  problems in HSD

Tacview (30min bugged hour ?) : https://www.mediafire.com/file/36osuj191rmvv1y/Tacview-20220426-203650-DCS-liberation_nextturn.zip.rar/file

 

hope it can help

[markturner1960]

Hi, over several multiplayer flights recently, I have noticed ( and others) intermittent issues with datalink not picking other flight members up and flickering in and out on the SA page......

Using the F18, so not sure about other frames,.

Anyone else noticed this?

[silverdevil]

13 hours ago, markturner1960 said:

Hi, over several multiplayer flights recently, I have noticed ( and others) intermittent issues with datalink not picking other flight members up and flickering in and out on the SA page......

Using the F18, so not sure about other frames,.

Anyone else noticed this?

hello. similar to this post?