An Open Letter to the Community

[rapid]

I apologize, but please note the IF.

 

As long as it doesn't take my bandwidth I am happy.

 

No problem im glad we can agree. you dont have to leave steam running as soon as your game in loaded you can close steam down.

[VMFA117_Poko]

I own hard copy of RACE07. While installing I must decide wich version I want: offline or online. Offline version checks my dvd in drive while starting but I can't play multiplayer. If I decide to install online version whole RACE07 is downloaded via Steam and after all it has all options with multiplayer included but I need internet connection to turn the game on.

[deviletk]

Rapid, i made a search for "HL2 torrent", and i read the comments on it. It seems its playable from the same copy with no problems. Seems impossible to play online though wich is good. But as a single player game i see only some people with limited computer skills unable to run it.

 

So its not perfect, like everything else.

[rapid]

Rapid, i made a search for "HL2 torrent", and i read the comments on it. It seems its playable from the same copy with no problems. Seems impossible to play online though wich is good. But as a single player game i see only some people with limited computer skills unable to run it.

 

So its not perfect, like everything else.

 

Roger that deviletk, but i dont think they can update the game from Steam.

but with all things some people will always find a way around something they just need to keep the amount very small to protect their investment.

question is DRM or Steam?

 

ps I do not mind authenticating my copy of BS everytime i play I will do what ever it takes to secure their investment but I do not want to be told you "have reinstalled too many times so you have to buy a new copy in order to play". I hope this is not the case.

Edited October 28, 2008 by rapid

[159th_Viper]

I totaly agree with Rapid. A distribution via Steam would be great. It's convenient and user friendly, and it also eliminates some piracy issues.

 

And for those without/without a reliable Broadband Connection?

[Groove]

STEAM is the perfect DRM system out there itself.

 

Additionally you can buy STEAM games which are DRMed additionally (Crysis Wars) and games with SF (Trackmania). STEAM games are frequently offered for illegal download. Just recently a major sports title was made avaiable for illegal download coming from a STEAM version.

[deviletk]

Groove just said though that even formatting your HD wont take away installations. Only if you change your hardware. So thats good! But i am down to losing installations because of hardware updating. This will have an impact on me as im upgrading my computer for BS. So i will lose installations just because i want to be able to fly BS good. And since i cant afford to have the computer fully done before BS release, i will have to get part by part when its installed... Ouch

 

Hopefully there is some way to get some installations back if the worst scenario plays out. Or i have to buy it and leave it uninstalled until my computer is done. Now that would be tragic.

 

We will see. Still have my faith. ;)

[Orao]

I just can't beleive it how some people are quick to abandon their freedom just in order to obtain something they strive for. Read Faust please.

 

So if I sum up guys here are willing to accept the limited activations eventhough they have no guarantee that it will be "easy" for them to obtain more activations after that. And what then ? What if they change their staff and you have rocket scientist who will find you guilty before you can prove otherwise ? By that I meant he purly and simply stops issuing of new activations ? Will you buy BS again or will you wait for another release ?

 

What is at stake here is not so much BS CP but the CP of future titles from ED. Today they will test if you accept the concept of limited activations on the DVD version, if you bend over and just say shove it for BS well then you can be sure that they will use same CP strategy for other titles. At the end the ED will become EA's russian counterpart as far as CP are concerned. And do you know the best ? Only the loyal and honnest customers will be concerned with this hassle not pirates.

 

FC DVD CP should enough to protect the game.

[crazysundog]

I just can't beleive it how some people are quick to abandon their freedom just in order to obtain something they strive for. Read Faust please.

 

So if I sum up guys here are willing to accept the limited activations eventhough they have no guarantee that it will be "easy" for them to obtain more activations after that. And what then ? What if they change their staff and you have rocket scientist who will find you guilty before you can prove otherwise ? By that I meant he purly and simply stops issuing of new activations ? Will you buy BS again or will you wait for another release ?

 

What is at stake here is not so much BS CP but the CP of future titles from ED. Today they will test if you accept the concept of limited activations on the DVD version, if you bend over and just say shove it for BS well then you can be sure that they will use same CP strategy for other titles. At the end the ED will become EA's russian counterpart as far as CP are concerned. And do you know the best ? Only the loyal and honnest customers will be concerned with this hassle not pirates.

 

FC DVD CP should enough to protect the game.

 

 

Whatever, just get me the demo before I :spam_laser: somebody...

 

...all this naysaying and chickenlittle behavior will dissappear as soon as the game is available...I hope!

 

[i mean available legally, of course!]

[GGTharos]

I just can't believe how some people are quick to demand that others suffer damages for their convenience.

 

Giving up freedom? No one is twisting your arm to buy DCS, nor is DCS going to twist your arm after you purchase it. Even if there were limited activations, you would know UP FRONT what you are buying, and you're not forced to buy it either.

 

I just can't beleive it how some people are quick to abandon their freedom just in order to obtain something they strive for. Read Faust please.

[BBQ]

wow--I hadn't realized a thread in a flight simulation forum could reach Faustian proportions. We've got some real passion streaming through these threads.

[mckee14]

jesus, it gets melodramatic... i would prefer the freedom of not to have pay taxes instead of having to make a (uuh, international!) maybe-phonecall every 9 months for something i don't need, but want.

 

by the way - it is usually no problem to change parts of your hardware like graficcard, ram and/or processor. mostly you need a new activation when you change the mainboard... or setting up a new windows. which has to be activated by phonecall after 3 installations...

[BBQ]

...Hopefully there is some way to get some installations back if the worst scenario plays out...

 

As I'm sure it's been said multiple times before--it's no guarantee this will happen in BS--but for Flaming Cliffs, in the event someone had exhausted their installations, ED had given them more, in most cases, with no questions asked.

[nemises]

reliable broadband is not required for Steam activation and CP (and all the other benefits like their punk buster equivelent).

A Physical disk can be used to install the game, and you just require a Steam account to activate.

This could be done over a dial-up connection.

 

Once activated, you can play Steam games offline without any internet connection.

 

Steam does need to be running as a TSR though, so, like starforce, it could be accused of using up resources.

 

Unsure of how Steam handles re-activation on new hardware (I expect it can be set up to do any of the normal stuff..limit installs or activations)

 

However, all said and done, I have had nothing but great results from all of the games I run using steam. Updates come down at a very good rate. I've never had a game not work. I understand their anti cheating sofware is very good.

 

If I build a new PC, I can copy my old steam cache accross from the old system.

 

I would think Steam is an Excellent choice for both distribution and management.

 

I'm sure ED are considering these types of options.

[Cosmonaut]

I just can't beleive it how some people are quick to abandon their freedom just in order to obtain something they strive for. Read Faust please.

 

So if I sum up guys here are willing to accept the limited activations eventhough they have no guarantee that it will be "easy" for them to obtain more activations after that. And what then ? What if they change their staff and you have rocket scientist who will find you guilty before you can prove otherwise ? By that I meant he purly and simply stops issuing of new activations ? Will you buy BS again or will you wait for another release ?

 

What is at stake here is not so much BS CP but the CP of future titles from ED. Today they will test if you accept the concept of limited activations on the DVD version, if you bend over and just say shove it for BS well then you can be sure that they will use same CP strategy for other titles. At the end the ED will become EA's russian counterpart as far as CP are concerned. And do you know the best ? Only the loyal and honnest customers will be concerned with this hassle not pirates.

 

FC DVD CP should enough to protect the game.

 

 

OMG .. Dude just put your hands up and step away from the violin please.

 

There are some of us here that may not buy DCS : BS becasue of the way the limited activations might work .. And we aren't crying about it. If you don't want to buy then don't, I'm sure others will purchase BS so don't be so disrespectful to a company that's only trying to do what it feels is the best way to protect its investment so they can continue to produce great sims for all of us. If the CP they choose is not for me then so be it, I'll find another hobby or continue to play LO: FC which will still be a great sim years from now.. But don't go and get things fired up in a thread that's been nothing but civil since it started.

Edited October 28, 2008 by Cosmonaut

[nscode]

As I'm sure it's been said multiple times before--it's no guarantee this will happen in BS--but for Flaming Cliffs, in the event someone had exhausted their installations, ED had given them more, in most cases, with no questions asked.

 

Yes, and that's where the problem is - there is no guarantee.

[Rikus]

Maybe we should start with getting rid of they myth about formatting your PC will cost you activations. With FC we already have the possibility to safe the activation key from the registry and re-inject it after a complete OS reinstall/format without using a new activation. Activations are triggered with change of hardware.

 

Sorry, but that always doesn´t work, i lost some activation only formating pc.

 

Curiosly i change hardware, and use a new activation, i format and can´t use the registry i saved, but what is funny, is that i test with a reg file older, when i have my old nvidia 6800GT and works...

[Trekkman]

But i am down to losing installations because of hardware updating.

 

Same here. Sooner or later I will run out of activations.

 

 

More and more companies are using DRM in there games now. So in lets say 4-5 years when all my activations are gone I have to phone all over the world and ask/beg for more activations for all of my games. And it is not even sure if the companies are still there, if there will be support for some games or if the activations will be patched out in the near future.

 

I understand and accept the necessity of a kind of CP and BS was on my "must have" list for a long time, but now I have to wait til release and decide if I will buy it or just add another game to the "games I won't buy cos of DRM" list.

[deviletk]

If there is no guarantee for us that actually buy BS then we have a problem. Sims are one of the programs that will make people upgrade, upgrade and upgrade. And in that case if i cant know that i will be able to use BS that i purchase for full price, then like i said, there is a problem, a big one.

 

What will i do then when the installs are out just because i upgraded to play BS in the first place. Will i become a pirate? Because i cant afford a new DVD at that time, but want to play as i just spent top dollar to play it? Ive been kinda sure about that ED would take care of us, but the more i read here the more concerned i get.

 

I hope at least it wont come to that. that we upgrade for the sake of BS, and as we do, we run out of possibilities to fly it. I understand thats how this CP work. But still i think and hope we will be helped by ED if this happens. If not, then we dont really get support on the baught product in a way. Oh man, i dont know. I get confused lol.

 

Sorry for maybe a messy post. Not too good expressing myself, and in english as well.

 

Regards

Alex

[EvilBivol-1]

Remember, this is the scheme that is used in the Russian DVD version and it may or may not apply to any other version.

 

The Russian retail version comes with 3 activations and 10 deactivations. The deactivations can be used to "back-up" your activations when you perform a hardware upgrade or re-install OS, etc. So, this in effect provides you with 13 usable activations (not the same as installs). There is also the weekly disc-check option. The user is able to switch to his preferred verification method at will. Should the user run out of activations, he retains the unlimited weekly disc check option.

 

And once again, this scheme may or may not be applicable to any other versions to be released. For one thing, ED has already indicated that activations may be required in the western retail (DVD) version, so the disc check option may no longer be offered.

 

If you have any more questions about the CP scheme used on the Russian retail version, please address them on the Russian forum.

Edited October 28, 2008 by EvilBivol-1

[Cosmonaut]

There is also the weekly disc-check option. The user is able to switch to his preferred verification method at will. Should the user run out of activations, he retains the unlimited weekly disc check option.

 

 

Thanks for that EvilBivol, at least there's hope :) . I know this may not make it onto the western DVD but damn I sure hope it does.

[S77th-konkussion]

As I'm sure it's been said multiple times before--it's no guarantee this will happen in BS--but for Flaming Cliffs, in the event someone had exhausted their installations, ED had given them more, in most cases, with no questions asked.

 

Not quite. There have been several cases where requests for support on various issues have been ignored for days on end. I even created a thread about this- people were buying FC and were unable to get their codes/ files because ED was processing CC's manually or some such thing. There are people who needed more activations, and were ignored. For how long- I don't know. I don't claim to know the specifics- I just read, and have to make assumptions.

 

I think expecting your customers to fart around in their registries just to save an activation is--- not good customer service. Not everyone is knowledgeable enough to be comfortable messing with stuff like this. Based on this- it's perfectly legit to question whether or not ED will regard a paying customer's product not working anymore- as important.

[RedTiger]

There is also the weekly disc-check option. The user is able to switch to his preferred verification method at will. Should the user run out of activations, he retains the unlimited weekly disc check option.

 

Strange that you would have a choice between this and a set number of activations. Who the hell would choose a set number of activations over a weekly disk check??

 

I appreciate this information. I hope this is the way it works in the Western version. :)

[PoleCat]

I think expecting your customers to fart around in their registries just to save an activation is--- not good customer service. Not everyone is knowledgeable enough to be comfortable messing with stuff like this.

 

Wouldn't these customers be knowledgeable enough to click on a single file called savekeys.exe to get their SF key backup?

 

If you can start a program by clicking on an icon you should be able to get a reg backup of your actvation keys in the same manner. No farting around in the registry needed what so ever AFAIK.

 

Out

[Maulkin]

OTOH, I did buy Far Cry 2 knowing full well that that I was limited in activations. This didn't bother me because I don't think I'll be playing it for years to come. Flight sims are a different matter. I'll see how this works out, I still intend to buy BS.

 

And this underlines where I said before that I hate that the CP scheme is not clearly described from the outset. I also bought Far Cry 2 and if I had known it used limited activations I would NOT have bought it simply on principle, but since I did I do not feel it is that big a deal as you said, first-person-shooters do not have a very long shelf life on my PC.

 

But simulations can last many many years and I do not like the idea that someday I will try to install Black Shark only to discover I have run out of activations and there is no way to fix it because the sim is no longer supported or the company has gone tits up.