Virpil collective base plus - had to increase friction after 2 weeks use

[Tehknein]

On 8/14/2022 at 7:21 PM, FoxTwo said:

Just a head's up, this guy is selling a bracket for a counterweight (not included) on etsy.

https://www.etsy.com/LaserWing/listing/1271733962/counterweight-bracket-for-virpil

Yeah that is me. It works like a charm! Easy to add gimbal weights from Amazon to. I could add additional option to include 1/4-20 gimbal counterweights but it’s cheaper for people to just prime them without me passing on the shipping cost 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Tehknein

[Hobel]

Am 15.8.2022 um 01:21 schrieb FoxTwo:

Just a head's up, this guy is selling a bracket for a counterweight (not included) on etsy.

https://www.etsy.com/LaserWing/listing/1271733962/counterweight-bracket-for-virpil

that is brilliant!

[-Dagger-]

Here is my attempt. The collective is mounted to the chair using aluminium profiles and a 5mm thick metal sheet. next week I'll get a longer bolt to make the movement more vertical but it still works fine now.

I'm also using a 3d printed clip to limit the movement using the damper tube. This way the collective doesn't go totally down and it stays at a 45º angle in the lowest position

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by -Dagger-

[sirrah]

22 hours ago, -Dagger- said:

Here is my attempt. The collective is mounted to the chair using aluminium profiles and a 5mm thick metal sheet. next week I'll get a longer bolt to make the movement more vertical but it still works fine now.

I'm also using a 3d printed clip to limit the movement using the damper tube. This way the collective doesn't go totally down and it stays at a 45º angle in the lowest position

 

 

 

Unfortunately today my collective "fell down" again under its own weight...

So, modification time it is.

 

Due to space limitations I prefer the dampener solution over the counterweight solution.

@-Dagger-where did you buy your dampener?

I've been searching for steering dampeners on Aliexpress, but I want to make sure to spend as little as possible on this modification .

Any tips?

[dburne]

Mine is still ok but I think I am going to order that bracket that the fella is selling for mine to add a counter weight to. I just do not like the disparity of the strength to raise the collective versus to lower the collective. Really a little surprised Virpil did not design that part of the collective better. I love my collective but for me that is the only issue with it. 

[-Dagger-]

3 hours ago, sirrah said:

Unfortunately today my collective "fell down" again under its own weight...

So, modification time it is.

 

Due to space limitations I prefer the dampener solution over the counterweight solution.

@-Dagger-where did you buy your dampener?

I've been searching for steering dampeners on Aliexpress, but I want to make sure to spend as little as possible on this modification .

Any tips?

I got this one:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMQzXmk

You also need some grease as the damper was not properly lubricated, 2020 aluminum profiles, m5 round head bolts and profile connectors.

Then the clamp to the collective and the bolt to joint it with the damper

[Dallas88B]

7 hours ago, dburne said:

Mine is still ok but I think I am going to order that bracket that the fella is selling

That fella is now selling a version with the counter weight included...so thats easy.

sorry I cannot include the link here cause i get a forbidden error... why ...who knows....but you can get to it from the link listed previous in this thread.

 

 

[dburne]

12 minutes ago, Dallas88B said:

That fella is now selling a version with the counter weight included...so thats easy.

sorry I cannot include the link here cause i get a forbidden error... why ...who knows....but you can get to it from the link listed previous in this thread.

 

 

Lol yeah I placed an order for it about an hour ago. Anxious to see how much it helps.  Been doing some Hornet flying lately to keep fresh with it, once I have this will be a good excuse to get back to my Apache learning some.

I finally beat ya to the punch one time LOL.

Edited August 21, 2022 by dburne

[Tehknein]

16 minutes ago, Dallas88B said:

That fella is now selling a version with the counter weight included...so thats easy.

sorry I cannot include the link here cause i get a forbidden error... why ...who knows....but you can get to it from the link listed previous in this thread.

 

A lot of people reached out to me and said they were having trouble finding easy to find ballast weight so I added that listing. 
 

I still prefer to sell it bracket only as I don’t like passing on unnecessary cost to people. A 2” stack of 2” wide washers will do the same as weights I’m including and can be picked up locally. 
 

For those that want a damper solution, I wonder if I can make a face plate cover similar to my counterweight bracket with a hole for a damper mount 

[dburne]

This is the counterweight kit I ordered - it has shipped so hopefully I will have it soon.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1274557026/counterweight-system-for-virpil?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=laser+counterweight+for+virpil&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&organic_search_click=1

[Dallas88B]

3 minutes ago, dburne said:

counterweight kit

Well that will do the job ! Should make it much better. Looking forward to hearing how you get on with it.

[dburne]

Only thing I do not care about Etsy - even though mine has shipped seems I can't access any tracking information unless I create an account on the Etsy site. Being as this will likely be the only thing I will ever purchase through them I have no need or desire to create an account on their website. So I guess it will be a surprise for me when it arrives lol.

[Tehknein]

On 8/24/2022 at 10:25 AM, dburne said:

Only thing I do not care about Etsy - even though mine has shipped seems I can't access any tracking information unless I create an account on the Etsy site. Being as this will likely be the only thing I will ever purchase through them I have no need or desire to create an account on their website. So I guess it will be a surprise for me when it arrives lol.

Message me your name and I’ll toss you your tracking info 

[dburne]

On 8/25/2022 at 4:28 PM, Tehknein said:

Message me your name and I’ll toss you your tracking info 

Ahhh got it installed this morning very quick and painless.

While I probably won't get chance to fly with it till little later on I can already tell this is so much better, And using all the weights as they seem about right. Less stiction when moving up and nice even smooth movement when lowering. Force for both feels about the same. Made some fine tuning adjustments on the friction plate screws.

Thank you so much for offering this kit!! Now my Virpil Collective feels as it should!

Edited August 29, 2022 by dburne

[AKA_Clutter]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:31 PM, Tehknein said:

Yeah that is me. It works like a charm! Easy to add gimbal weights from Amazon to. I could add additional option to include 1/4-20 gimbal counterweights but it’s cheaper for people to just prime them without me passing on the shipping cost 

 

So how do they work with your system.  The ones linked don't have a hole all the way through.  Also, can you get the weights from Amazon in different weights.

[71st_Mastiff]

On 8/28/2021 at 7:50 AM, sirrah said:

I was wondering if anyone else noticed/experienced this:

 

After approximately 10 hours of use (recieved my Rotor TCS plus Base + ALPHA-L grip 2 weeks ago), I noticed today that my collective was slowly "falling" down when I released it.

At some point it even went from about 75% up, to all the way down, in the time that I needed to raise the Hind landing gear lever.. (resulting in me dying in a ball of flames)

 

So, after only about 10 hours of use, today I had to increase tension to the force adjustment screw:

 

 

It concerns me slightly, that this is already needed after such a small period of usage. Anyone else having similar experience with this?

 

 

I'm having same issues with e troque losing up and its as tight as it will go and is stating to fail holding the stick up.

[FoxTwo]

40 minutes ago, AKA_Clutter said:

So how do they work with your system.  The ones linked don't have a hole all the way through.  Also, can you get the weights from Amazon in different weights.

They don't need a hole all the way through, they have a threaded hole on the opposite side so you can screw them together. 450-500g should be enough with a little bit of friction on the dry clutch.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, AKA_Clutter said:

So how do they work with your system.  The ones linked don't have a hole all the way through.  Also, can you get the weights from Amazon in different weights.

 

He also now offers a Kit that has the weights with it as well that slide on. https://www.etsy.com/listing/1274557026/counterweight-system-for-virpil

Edited August 29, 2022 by dburne

[AKA_Clutter]

I have had Tehknein's  counterweight mod for a couple of weeks or so.  I order the kit with the weights (I was lazy and didn't want to spend the time searching for the weights.

 

I have used it for about 4.5 flight hours in the AH-64D so far.  My impression at this point is that the collective is a lot smoother and precise movements/fine control are much easier with the counterweights installed.  The stiction issue is not totally gone but greatly reduced.  It has been reduced to the point where I don't think it will interfere with fine control movements.  It will take more time to get used to the change, but that is just retaining the muscle memory.

 

I used all the supplied weights in the last hole.

 

I am not sure that it will totally remove the issue of having to retighten the dry clutch, only time will tell.

 

Am I glad I got it - YES.  Is it worth the $30 for the counterweight frame IMHO - Absolutely (your millage may vary).  Is it worth $75 (PLUSD takes and $21 shipping) - that all depends on id you want the pain to be in your wallet or looking for and getting the weights yourself.

[dburne]

6 hours ago, AKA_Clutter said:

I have had Tehknein's  counterweight mod for a couple of weeks or so.  I order the kit with the weights (I was lazy and didn't want to spend the time searching for the weights.

 

I have used it for about 4.5 flight hours in the AH-64D so far.  My impression at this point is that the collective is a lot smoother and precise movements/fine control are much easier with the counterweights installed.  The stiction issue is not totally gone but greatly reduced.  It has been reduced to the point where I don't think it will interfere with fine control movements.  It will take more time to get used to the change, but that is just retaining the muscle memory.

 

I used all the supplied weights in the last hole.

 

I am not sure that it will totally remove the issue of having to retighten the dry clutch, only time will tell.

 

Am I glad I got it - YES.  Is it worth the $30 for the counterweight frame IMHO - Absolutely (your millage may vary).  Is it worth $75 (PLUSD takes and $21 shipping) - that all depends on id you want the pain to be in your wallet or looking for and getting the weights yourself.

 

Thankfully at least so far I have never experienced the having to re-tighten the clutch plate and hopefully going forward with this Mod kit it will be the same. Going to be several more days before I can devote the time to get back on the Apache.

[AKA_Clutter]

I haven't had tge issue either, knocking on wood.

[Dallas88B]

1 hour ago, AKA_Clutter said:

tge

?

[Tehknein]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:04 PM, AKA_Clutter said:

I have had Tehknein's  counterweight mod for a couple of weeks or so.  I order the kit with the weights (I was lazy and didn't want to spend the time searching for the weights.

 

I have used it for about 4.5 flight hours in the AH-64D so far.  My impression at this point is that the collective is a lot smoother and precise movements/fine control are much easier with the counterweights installed.  The stiction issue is not totally gone but greatly reduced.  It has been reduced to the point where I don't think it will interfere with fine control movements.  It will take more time to get used to the change, but that is just retaining the muscle memory.

 

I used all the supplied weights in the last hole.

 

I am not sure that it will totally remove the issue of having to retighten the dry clutch, only time will tell.

 

Am I glad I got it - YES.  Is it worth the $30 for the counterweight frame IMHO - Absolutely (your millage may vary).  Is it worth $75 (PLUSD takes and $21 shipping) - that all depends on id you want the pain to be in your wallet or looking for and getting the weights yourself.

Glad it helped! 

[AKA_Clutter]

On 9/13/2022 at 7:30 PM, Dallas88B said:

?

I was on my phone and not the best texter.   tge = the

[Scott-S6]

I have been experimenting with counterweights, dampers and both.

My conclusion is that decently tuned counterweights (200g camera gimbal weights with a simple center hole are cheap and you can tune them by drilling holes in them) with just a tiny bit of the friction clutch is the most effective solution. Tip - to get a pretty accurate approximation of what weight you'll need cable tie a ziploc bag to the counterweight arm and start throwing nuts, bolts, whatever in there with the friction clutch completely disengaged. Also, I see everyone installing their counterweight arm on the outside of the unit. My thought is that it's better on the inside to reduce undesired forces on the pivot mechanism so I made mine for the inside of the unit with a vertical weight stack to keep the weight as close as possible to the pivot so it's not exerting any roll forces. (you could do the same with Tehknein's (if it's thin enough) by mounting on the inside and having an equal amount of weights on either side of the arm)

At this point you have a very light feeling collective. If you want the collective to feel heavier then you could add a damper but do consider how you're mounting it. It's easy to induce flexing in the mount which is counterproductive.

If you just don't have room for a counterweight then damper plus friction clutch does work and it is an improvement on clutch alone.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Scott-S6