Best helicopter for practice on way to Apache?

[gdotts]

I have Huey, KA-50 and Hind for DCS helicopters. Each has its own flight characteristics.  Which "one" is best for practice toward the flight model of the AH-64D??

[Steel Jaw]

Don’t think there is one…iirc the LB is FBW.

[gdotts]

Wouldn't a Huey be a fly by wire type helicopter?  What future technology was in play back then?

[kgillers3]

1 hour ago, gdotts said:

Wouldn't a Huey be a fly by wire type helicopter?  What future technology was in play back then?

Huey is a linkage heli, so all the controls are linked to the servo or direct to the flight surface through a rod or some mechanical linkage, however. It is a great starter heli because pending how the flight model comes in for the aircraft in DCS.  Every force that a helicopter experiences you will have to deal with in the huey, so if you can do it in the huey you can do it in the AH.  Once you understand what control inputs you need to input it's no different in the AH except it does assist with the SAS and SCAS of the FMC. 

 

If it were me I'd recommend the huey.  

CCW rotor, doesn't mush as bad as the hind, the force trim will likely work more similar than the hinds.

KA50 with the coaxial rotor system while the gameplay may be more similar probably won't fly similar however that's again largely up to the flight model implemented. 

 

1 hour ago, Mower said:

Don’t think there is one…iirc the LB is FBW.

Wouldn't necessarily agree depending on how you look at it but FBW vs Linkage isn't the deal breaker IMO

Edited October 20, 2021 by kgillers3

[Mr_Blastman]

KA-50 for weapons deployment without a RWR.

[Draken35]

I fly the Huey regularly, currently learning VFR with it and  I got the KA-50 to train my "mindset" for attack helicopters ... I setup a practice mission with my two main jets (Harrier & Warthog) and the KA50, attacking an insurgent stronghold in a coastal city of Lebanon. Several targets: camp, HQ, roving patrols, fast boats, road blocks, some AAA and MANDPADs. Nothing fancy but it is an eye opener regarding AH tactics vs fast mover tactics. 

I not too worry about flying skills or particular systems, since all that will be different with the Apache anyway, but the mindset is totally different (not surprisingly!).

[Schmidtfire]

Ka-50. Ease of flying, 30mm cannon, standoff weapons like Vikhr, even an HMD.
Apache will offer more complex avionics, helmet sight and radar. But in my opinion they will roughly offer the same kind of experiences,
sneaking around treetops trying to get visual on that tank or sam before it's too late.

[fargo007]

On 10/19/2021 at 7:36 PM, Mr_Blastman said:

KA-50 for weapons deployment without a RWR.

I Also say KA-50. Generally.

 

Ask yourself - are you really more concerned with very basic flight maneuvers, or do you need to learn to fight in the helicopter, and manage the navigation, weapons, and data systems involved?

 

The KA-50 is almost like a single seat, steampunk version of an AH-64. 

 

Yes, the coaxial rotor is a little different, but not so dramatically that it matters in the big picture IMO.  

 

If effectiveness in missions is considered, the transition from KA-50 to AH-64 will be easier than UH-1H to AH-64. Hands down.

[Remco]

I'm going to absolutely agree with @kgillers3 here.

Hands down the best helicopter to prep on would be the Huey.

A little background knowledge: in the real world at Rucker before ever sniffing the Apache we get send to train on TH-67's (Jetrangers) back in our days and nowadays they use Lakota's. On the same airfield the US Air force use(d) Huey's for the same purpose. 

You can not and will not learn helicopter fundamentals in a KA50 or Apache, you need something like a R22, Huey, Jetranger, MD500 etc, and the Huey is what we happen to have ingame. Everything you learn in a Huey will apply to the Apache to some extend. You also won't need to "unlearn" anything moving from the Huey to the Apache since they both have CCW rotors and tail rotor. Any procedure you learn in the Huey you can apply to the Apache either in general use or in case of an FMC/SCAS failure, adverse weather conditions, etc.

On the other hand a lot of things in the Hind and KA50 will be very different and you're going to have to relearn procedures anyway. They're both fun and you should totally fly them, but I would not consider it training for the Apache in any way shape or form. If you want to practice attack helicopter tactics (for use in the Apache), you're better of doing that in the Apache itself.

That said, this is DCS, it is a game, plenty of people absolutely enjoy helicopters without ever understanding helicopter fundamentals, and there's nothing wrong with just hopping into the Apache and learning to fly just that airframe, this isn't the real world where you have to earn your wings first.

[Sobakopes]

Don't need to learn because it's going to be easy. 

[ripper998]

KA-50 to get down using some sort of weapon systems and Huey for actual flying

[gdotts]

Having trouble getting Force Trim switch to activate in the Huey.  Control options says LALT+U is the key that does it..  Trying to get this going as it should be like AH-64D Force Trim.

[hannibal]

watch the movie firebirds.

make sure you acquire a 'panty undergarment' to complete your preparation and practice.

[Rogue Trooper]

They are all different and there is nothing I can think of to prepare you for the Apache.... simply because I do not know what to expect.

If you have all modules then surely you have flown them all and have an understanding of chopper flight. The Huey is good for learning the fundamentals of choppers but has very little to compare with the Apache's weight class and its advanced rotor hub and blades.

All modules will have taught you something to prepare for the Apache. driving the Hind to the runway will certainly prepare you for the Apache's wheel suspension. 

For me, it will be getting the tail sitting apache onto the runway, Its long tail wheel will create a long and unstable triangle between the front two wheels and that will need concentration of cyclic control when taking corners.... Once I am on the runway sitting stable and smiling like a jack a"s, I will raise the collective so the airframe goes wheels light.... and from there I will start learning  .

I cannot wait!  

Edited December 7, 2021 by Rogue Trooper

[kgillers3]

7 hours ago, gdotts said:

Having trouble getting Force Trim switch to activate in the Huey.  Control options says LALT+U is the key that does it..  Trying to get this going as it should be like AH-64D Force Trim.

Did you have force trim on, it’s a switch in the Huey, also dcs you’ll need force trim reset 

5 hours ago, Rogue Trooper said:

They are all different and there is nothing I can think of to prepare you for the Apache.... simply because I do not know what to expect.

If you have all modules then surely you have flown them all and have an understanding of chopper flight. The Huey is good for learning the fundamentals of choppers but has very little to compare with the Apache's weight class and its advanced rotor hub and blades.

All modules will have taught you something to prepare for the Apache. driving the Hind to the runway will certainly prepare you for the Apache's wheel suspension. 

For me, it will be getting the tail sitting apache onto the runway, Its long tail wheel will create a long and unstable triangle between the front two wheels and that will need concentration of cyclic control when taking corners.... Once I am on the runway sitting stable and smiling like a jack a"s, I will raise the collective so the airframe goes wheels light.... and from there I will start learning  .

I cannot wait!  

 

I’m not sure I agree with the hind, but I guess it’s ultimately up to how they design the model. 

[Vitallini]

Does anyone here know of “drills” to practice to become a good heli-pilot? I can get a Huey in the air and back down fairly controlled, but I notice that slowing to a hover leads to unintended altitude gain or loss. I can manage better if I take it gradually, but I imagine I take to long to perform it. I assume a trained pilot whould identify my flying as sloppy (at best I think). What details should one be aware of and perfect while flying a helicopter and especially in a combat role to tighten things up?

[kgillers3]

 

2 hours ago, Vitallini said:

Does anyone here know of “drills” to practice to become a good heli-pilot? I can get a Huey in the air and back down fairly controlled, but I notice that slowing to a hover leads to unintended altitude gain or loss. I can manage better if I take it gradually, but I imagine I take to long to perform it. I assume a trained pilot whould identify my flying as sloppy (at best I think). What details should one be aware of and perfect while flying a helicopter and especially in a combat role to tighten things up?

Set a goal.  Come up to a 5ft hover with minimal drift, constant heading.  Take off and climb say 200 ft aho, make a good pattern, turn final and approach to a point you pick, and land to that point. You're likely going too fast on the final portion and just need to manage your speed better. I'm guessing again I'm just going off of what you're saying.  Try to set your descent in, and start walking the speed back and maintain a constant approach angle or essentially flying directly too that point. Also be prepared to add power as you slow below ETL 16-24kts or so to maintain your desired rate of descent and approach. 

Then it translates too for DCS landing to a opening, controlling your rate of descent and approach speed so that you can make that intended point of landing and not hovering 100 ft aho trying to come down vertically.  Or slamming into trees because you're too fast. 

Not saying to take it to serious, but hold yourself to an objective.  If you drift off too much or climb up or fall through, make note of it and fix it. 

Hope it helps

Edited January 1, 2022 by kgillers3

[Gunnar81]

1 hour ago, kgillers3 said:

 

Set a goal.  Come up to a 5ft hover with minimal drift, constant heading.  Take off and climb say 200 ft aho, make a good pattern, turn final and approach to a point you pick, and land to that point. You're likely going too fast on the final portion and just need to manage your speed better. I'm guessing again I'm just going off of what you're saying.  Try to set your descent in, and start walking the speed back and maintain a constant approach angle or essentially flying directly too that point. Also be prepared to add power as you slow below ETL 16-24kts or so to maintain your desired rate of descent and approach. 

Then it translates too for DCS landing to a opening, controlling your rate of descent and approach speed so that you can make that intended point of landing and not hovering 100 ft aho trying to come down vertically.  Or slamming into trees because you're too fast. 

Not saying to take it to serious, but hold yourself to an objective.  If you drift off too much or climb up or fall through, make note of it and fix it. 

Hope it helps

 

This is good advice. I think a lot of people have a very hollywood idea of how helo's move around, takeoff and land etc. They work best at lower speed and with very controlled descents like kgillers3 mentions above. I personally found that taking a slower speed approach to flying helo's and spending just a bit more time planning takeoff and landings really helped my helo game. Check out Casmo's vids on you tube, he's got a couple of really good piloting basics in the Huey's that really helped my hoving and slow speed flying skills.

[Vitallini]

Thank you guys! I guess the saying slow is smooth and smooth is fast is a mindset you can use while flying helicopters. I think setting goals like you described kgillers3, keeping it simple and repeatable is a good advice for my level at the moment. I feel like learning to fly helicopters is sort of like playing in a band in the way that at some point when playing you get to a level where you are “ahead of the music” and not just reacting from second to second. Perhaps not making sense here. I still forget using my pedals in relation to collective input from time to time and it feels like I get task saturated at those moments. It’s very fun to practice, but I also need to take breaks more often to reset compared to flying jets.

[kgillers3]

34 minutes ago, Vitallini said:

Thank you guys! I guess the saying slow is smooth and smooth is fast is a mindset you can use while flying helicopters. I think setting goals like you described kgillers3, keeping it simple and repeatable is a good advice for my level at the moment. I feel like learning to fly helicopters is sort of like playing in a band in the way that at some point when playing you get to a level where you are “ahead of the music” and not just reacting from second to second. Perhaps not making sense here. I still forget using my pedals in relation to collective input from time to time and it feels like I get task saturated at those moments. It’s very fun to practice, but I also need to take breaks more often to reset compared to flying jets.

There are things you can do fast, but all approaches usually end slow unless your rolling on, as you gain experience you'll be able to carry more speed in and then learn techniques to slow down for touchdown.  Good luck

Edited January 1, 2022 by kgillers3

[Rogue Trooper]

Can I manually take control of the, what is it called... stabilizer.... the flexible tail wing.

Can I manually control its position?

Basically can I override it's automated position and what controls do I need to do that?

I think this may have been discussed before.... or was that the UH-60 mod?

Edited February 12, 2022 by Rogue Trooper

[kgillers3]

15 hours ago, Rogue Trooper said:

Can I manually take control of the, what is it called... stabilizer.... the flexible tail wing.

Can I manually control its position?

Basically can I override it's automated position and what controls do I need to do that?

I think this may have been discussed before.... or was that the UH-60 mod?

 

Yes, you can manually control the stab, you can utilize the stab position switch on the collective, it'll revert back to automatic control above 80 kts unless there's a malfunction

Edited February 12, 2022 by kgillers3