2022 DCS Newsletter Discussion - Week 1 & Week 2 (no newsletters)

[Tank50us]

51 minutes ago, St4rgun said:

How is it possible, that months of whining from the community resulted in one, only ONE report on the progress of Multicore as a "development report", but since then nothing more. And that one report was only neccesary because they silently passed the "planned" deadline without further preliminary info, so AFTER Q3 passed they decided to write that. Don't get me wrong I was really happy to have that info, but after that what we have is silence. Sorry, I'm lying: we have the "we are making good progress" answer.

During the same period we can know from the newletters that the pilot of the Mi24 will have a highy detailed wristwatch, and his glove will be fine leather all are perfecly modelled... Seriously?

Alright, here's the deal with game development that you don't seem to understand very well. The people making the art assets, are NOT the same people working on the multicore support. The artists have to be kept busy to justify their paychecks, if that means they have to model a finely detailed watch to keep their jobs, then so be it. The programmers have a lot of spaghetti code to work through in order to make multicore support work on day one. Remember, we're talking about a game that's over a decade old, with dozens of 1st and 3rd party assets added since the game was launched. That's a lot of gears to adjust to make sure they all work as advertised. After all, ED had no idea that DCS would take-off the way it has when they first released it. They put it together, 'shipped' it, and then started getting bug-eyed when it grew in popularity so flippin' quickly.

As for the issue of progress.... there's only so much they can show. You can show a 3D model WIP, you can show a texture WIP, you can show the item moving around in the engine, but the systems and flight model are another ballgame entirely. And it's the same with bug squashing. While I joke that I sick my Bearded Dragon on bugs, in reality, I'm sure the programmers at ED wish it was as simple as letting a lizard loose in the computer to find and take care of the bugs. I'll bet there's been plenty of "Well, back to the drawing board" moments at ED, when they thought they had something perfect.... only for it to fail at the last moment.

Give the guys some slack, they know what they're doing, they just don't have the super gargantuan budgets of the major AAA companies.

[St4rgun]

7 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

Alright, here's the deal with game development that you don't seem to understand very well.

Hmm. Right, I'm finished. Understood.

[draconus]

4 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Some years ago ED build the week updates and the years "plans" Roadmap , but now, we have the same situation..... "where are my promises X" has return and that year has none new roadmap (surelly to no use them as a weapon) and wait if the newsletters return...

Please, devs scared of some forum posts? LOL, that's what moderators are for.

[St4rgun]

It seems that the "wristwatch & glove" combo are misunderstood by some.

It is cool, that ED take care of all the details at such extent, that's why we are using this sim and not others. We LOVE details.

But I still not get it why it would be normal to share details of the progress on the development of SOME departments while hardly sharing info on the CORE development? I don't want to SEE something visual, but some words would be nice about the progress... Because the new pilot model of the Mi24 will interests the people who have this module (including me), while the core interests ALL the users, everyone.

I hope that I'm just a bit impatient and all the great news will be present in the next(?) newsletter(s).

Edited January 12, 2022 by St4rgun

[Boosterdog]

5 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

And about the detail "Mi24 pilot clock and the fine leather", thank by considerate the Mocap team and the 3D human modelers teams, your work has a waste of time. The same situation with the "Beer tank" on the Mosquito by the 3D modelers stuff teams. Surely that teams has been happy to show more about your work on any newsletter in a future.

I doubt they really care as Im sure they know their work is appreciated (if they dont, it truly is).  If they do get dishertened  then that is very sad but also indicative of how fast "Render Fatigue" can set in when little else (away from the latest and greatest product pushing) is perceived to be shared for a protracted period. DCS by its nature is a Jam Tomorrow render-fest (look at the content of your own Roadmap Thread - which I enjoy and thank you for BTW) . It has to be and we largely love it for being so because a picture does speak a thousand words. 

But it cant just rely on it in the absence of anything else which it can appear to do now . DCS isnt an easy "in" and the price of admission is rising so its simply unrealistic to expect an invested mass to be happy all the time withou a varied diet of information. Doing so is equally unfair on Mocap as it risks dimishing their work in the eyes of some to mere "filler". Which it certainly isnt. 

By what you say, ED should, by now, have a wealth of experience, good and bad, in managing communication. They should know who the the community recieves best (Wags could tell me he just run over my dog after crashing into my garden whilst driving and googling and Id probably still thank him for stopping by) and how to best impart  good and bad news.  Grpahics's writing and comminction style is excellent too and could easily utilised more (assuming that doesnt impact on other stuff which it probably would) 

The community does have its part to play and sometimes is unnecessarily overly needy and enttiled (me especially). But its not all on us all the time. It really isnt. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Boosterdog

[Silver_Dragon]

4 hours ago, St4rgun said:

It seems that the "wristwatch & glove" combo are misunderstood by some.

It is cool, that ED take care of all the details at such extent, that's why we are using this sim and not others. We LOVE details.

But I still not get it why it would be normal to share details of the progress on the development of SOME departments while hardly sharing info on the CORE development? I don't want to SEE something visual, but some words would be nice about the progress... Because the new pilot model of the Mi24 will interests the people who have this module (including me), while the core interests ALL the users, everyone.

I hope that I'm just a bit impatient and all the great news will be present in the next(?) newsletter(s).

 

Hundred and Hundres of code lines in the core?

[NineLine]

13 hours ago, Boosterdog said:

ED could take a leaf out of another combat air sim's book.

Yeah, if only we released news and info every week about current work and future work. 

Come on guys, we do what we can to keep you in a loop, its not so simple that it could be translated into a progress bar, and estimates are rarely accurate because the work is very complex, and in some cases new ground with unforeseen issues or challenges that pop up. 

Also saying you take news well or delays well is great, but the guy next to you doesn't, so its not a matter of trying to please one or two people, but a hugely diverse community, one that continues to grow and change. From a community management point of view, while I like telling you guys about things that are coming, it has to be a balance of how close they are. The few years we have done these "what are we working" on newsletters were fun for those that understood they were not promises, but they are not fun for those that dont or are frustrated with a certain aspect of the sim that hasn't been addressed yet. Its not fun to see the end of the year bring up a post on another part of the internet checking the boxes about all the things we supposedly missed the release date on, even if our mantra is always "Everything is subject to change".

So this week we will start up the newsletters again, I think there is some exciting news in this one, its not a summary of what we have going on, but or normal weekly newsletter. That's it, nothing will change that. I appreciate the feedback, but this is the approach we have decided on.

Thanks guys.

[Snakepit92]

I certainly understand, but am still very dissapointed

[Tank50us]

3 hours ago, NineLine said:

Come on guys, we do what we can to keep you in a loop, its not so simple that it could be translated into a progress bar, and estimates are rarely accurate because the work is very complex, and in some cases new ground with unforeseen issues or challenges that pop up. 

Oh this is something I fully understand. Having done some modding work in the past, and doing a bunch of stuff with the ME for a campaign, I know things can crop up. And then there are those days where you just.... don't feel like doing anything. I know I've been there... heck had a day like that just this week. Came home from work, felt dead, went to bed.

You guys keep doing what you do best, and when you need a break from staring at a screen all day, take it. Take care of yourselves. I think I speak for the whole of the 145th, and probably many units that feel this way, but... we care about you guys. We want these modules to be the best you can make them. But not at the cost of the talented people who bust their buts 9-5 working on them. So seriously guys, if you need more time, or just need a break... take it. We'll still be here when ya get back in the groove.

Now for those busting EDs chops for being late.... seriously... stop it. EDs working as hard as they flippin' can to please us all. Show'em some freaking gratitude, and let them work. We'll get our shiny new toys when they're ready.

[Boosterdog]

4 hours ago, Tank50us said:

Show'em some freaking gratitude, and let them work. We'll get our shiny new toys when they're ready.

ED and its 3rd party partners have had £1100 of my gratutude and a further £3000 or £4000 required to use it over the past 4 or 5 years.  The majority of that latter figure is down to an acceptace that as things move on, the performace demands increase and that some things that could perhaps counteract that dont move on as fast as one would like. 

I dont think those of us asking for a little more information about core progress (not so much a shiny new toy as an essential foundation for a single core engine on the edge) a little more regularily (not promises, not timelines, not deadlines) are asking for the moon on a stick but clearly ED and many community members such as yourself disagree.  Fair comment. 

Asking and attempting to reason why we are asking doesnt automatically make us unwashed and ungrateful any more that accepting the status quo makes you an ED apologist or Fanboi (to take both equally idotic extremes of accusations).  Now if Ive come accross as demanding such-- thats a different matter.  And if have then I'll take it on the chin and thats my bad. Wasnt my intention. 

Any how ED have spoken so lets see what 2022 brings. 

All the best. 

 

 

[M1Combat]

OK...  8 hours in and we're at 2.6K views.

I'm taking bets on how many views it gets before we get a 2022 update.  Or more correctly how many views it has when I look at it after it gets an update.  Very important distinction that...

 

I'm going to say 11,500 and it will be Tuesday.

 

Winner (closest guess on number of views but feel free to speculate about what day if you like, edited posts are disqualified) gets a single like, from me, on a post within THIS thread.  Or I do nothing...  My choice.  I'll probably like a post though...  But I can't promise it will be one of yours...

 

If there are any conflicts about the rules....  Whatever.  What I say goes.  That's really the rule.  Feel free to write a scathing post if you disagree but do NOT edit it as then I'll be forced to disregard.

[NineLine]

13 hours ago, Boosterdog said:

I dont think those of us asking for a little more information about core progress (not so much a shiny new toy as an essential foundation for a single core engine on the edge)

We just gave an update on that a few newsletters ago.

[M1Combat]

OK @NineLine you're right that probably could have turned out negative but just understand that wasn't my point.  I thought it would be fun...

 

I'm assuming you moved it here...

[hannibal]

On 1/12/2022 at 7:04 AM, Silver_Dragon said:

You are new here? Some need remember the actual situations was only a repeat of the old times of 2013-2015, when ED, Wags and other ED members puts develop info on the DCS forum... some members start to attack ED about "where are MY promisses X" and "deadlines Y" with angry and personal attack vs the develop team. ED put a info "Blackout" and that the news turn to minimun. Some years ago ED build the week updates and the years "plans" Roadmap , but now, we have the same situation..... "where are my promises X" has return and that year has none new roadmap (surelly to no use them as a weapon) and wait if the newsletters return...

the cycle of life just repeats... lol

[hannibal]

we just had a 2022 and beyond video.

Apache and Intruder, i am just excited for that!!

and rainbows..