Just got SC. LSO gives me wave off right at the ramp. To late for me to do anything.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Just got SC. LSO gives me wave off right at the ramp. To late for me to do anything. This happens mostly with A-4E-C 2.0. By the time I get wave off, I am already at ramp. All I can do, at that time, is what I would normally do, full power. The aircraft either bolters or catches 1 wire. Then I get unsafe no grade.

[9thHunt]

well, if you hit the one wire, it probably means that you were too low when he waved you off.   I think in cases like this, if you can't safely wave off, you have to take the bolter and go around.  To avoid engaging the wires, slap your hook switch up before you hit the deck.

[Nealius]

38 minutes ago, 9thHunt said:

I think in cases like this, if you can't safely wave off, you have to take the bolter and go around.  To avoid engaging the wires, slap your hook switch up before you hit the deck.

"Too late to do anything." How exactly are we to slap the hook up and go around when the LSO calls are so delayed that human reaction time literally does not allow for remedial action? This has happened to me in the Hornet as well, albeit rarely. The LSO calls in general are lagging so far behind that, when adding human reaction time plus engine spool up/down time, they are borderline useless at the moment.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

so is it better to switch off LSO feedback?

 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

According to the all knowing YT carrier videos. Once inside 500 feet from ramp, you are "At The Ramp", no more LSO calls . Not sure about cut lights. That close, at 130-150 knots, at AOA, flap down, gear down, brake out, hook down, you are committed UNLESS you are below slope and gonna rampstrike. Whats amazing with A-4E-C 2.0 and the new external flight model, is that all the issues I encounter. From gear+hook ramp strike, bolter , high pass, wave-off, look amazingly like the YT videos of A-4 ops from 1960's to 1970's. Whatever those RL guys were doing wrong, I am doing.  The only thing I have not encountered in A-4E-C 2.0 is inflight engagement. That's where you are too much AOA, changing hook to ramp clearance, aircraft settles in high AOA, and hook catches wire before gear. The Scooter is then slammed down, snapping the gear.

I have yet to fly what is considered to be a proper Case 1 pattern, especially from 90 to final 'groove' lineup at 500' AGL, on speed of 135-150 KIAS(depending on GW). I am either shallow and high, or wide and high. Never quite right to get into the groove. Either with Hornet or Skyhawk.

800' AGL at upwind leg, break left at the bow with 22.5 bank, roll into downwind leg at 650' dirty up and gear dn with distance to ship 1.25 nm, when in line with LSO platform roll into final at 22.5 bank. Intercept groove slope at 500' AGL about 3/4 nm from ramp. Roger ball, and fly it into the wires. Sounds great, but adhering to speed and alt is easier said then done.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

22 hours ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said:

so is it better to switch off LSO feedback?

 

LSO is why I got SC in first place.

[Cathnan]

I don't know how accurate the LSO's general performace is. I just suck way too much at carrier landings to judge that. But as far as I know the LSO is only properly tuned for the Hornet at the moment. He's simply unable to give proper guidence for other aircraft.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

50 minutes ago, Cathnan said:

I don't know how accurate the LSO's general performace is. I just suck way too much at carrier landings to judge that. But as far as I know the LSO is only properly tuned for the Hornet at the moment. He's simply unable to give proper guidence for other aircraft.

What about F-14A/B, AV-8B, and helicopters? OK rotaries are not handled by LSO. But Harrier can make normal approach to CVN and land in the wires using rolling landing.

[fagulha]

No problems here with LSO and carrier traps, but, i fly the Hornet so i didn´t tried with A-4. Did you tried with other aircraft than the A-4?

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

23 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

According to the all knowing YT carrier videos. Once inside 500 feet from ramp, you are "At The Ramp", no more LSO calls . Not sure about cut lights. That close, at 130-150 knots, at AOA, flap down, gear down, brake out, hook down, you are committed UNLESS you are below slope and gonna rampstrike. Whats amazing with A-4E-C 2.0 and the new external flight model, is that all the issues I encounter. From gear+hook ramp strike, bolter , high pass, wave-off, look amazingly like the YT videos of A-4 ops from 1960's to 1970's. Whatever those RL guys were doing wrong, I am doing.  The only thing I have not encountered in A-4E-C 2.0 is inflight engagement. That's where you are too much AOA, changing hook to ramp clearance, aircraft settles in high AOA, and hook catches wire before gear. The Scooter is then slammed down, snapping the gear.

I have yet to fly what is considered to be a proper Case 1 pattern, especially from 90 to final 'groove' lineup at 500' AGL, on speed of 135-150 KIAS(depending on GW). I am either shallow and high, or wide and high. Never quite right to get into the groove. Either with Hornet or Skyhawk.

800' AGL at upwind leg, break left at the bow with 22.5 bank, roll into downwind leg at 650' dirty up and gear dn with distance to ship 1.25 nm, when in line with LSO platform roll into final at 22.5 bank. Intercept groove slope at 500' AGL about 3/4 nm from ramp. Roger ball, and fly it into the wires. Sounds great, but adhering to speed and alt is easier said then done.

I´m a noob, however check you have the proper altimeter setting done, and that you are flying radar altimeter on.
Set your ALOW warning to 450.
With that settings, when you are in the middle of your final turn, with just 90º left to BRC, your warning alt tone should  sound. It´s set that way so you have a confirmation your sink rate is good without keeping your eyes of the HUD.

[Schlomo1933]

i think u will get the wave off signal way earlier. but the LSO have a big lag since a while. so better u dont listening to the lso. look at thr ball and if the wave off light will flash.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Schlomo1933

[9thHunt]

it's worth noting that the LSO on the SC is optimized for the Hornet.  As awesome as the A-4 mod is, it is a mod, the authors had to reverse engineer the SC functionality, so I would expect some issues like this.  For a beginner, I'd strongly recommend using the Hornet to learn how to trap.

On 1/28/2022 at 10:49 PM, Nealius said:

"Too late to do anything." How exactly are we to slap the hook up and go around when the LSO calls are so delayed that human reaction time literally does not allow for remedial action? This has happened to me in the Hornet as well, albeit rarely. The LSO calls in general are lagging so far behind that, when adding human reaction time plus engine spool up/down time, they are borderline useless at the moment.

I wasn't offering a solution to the bug, just a procedure to avoid an inflight engagement or a bad trap.  Assuming you get waved off as you cross the ramp, you ought to have just enough time to throw the hook switch before you're in the wires.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

When recovering AV-8BNA on SC, LSO always gives a 'NO GRADE' becouse there is no 'ball' or 'clara' call available to Harrier comms menu. SC does give me meatball overlay, so thats good. AV-8B can be flown using non-VTOL pattern, and landed at 70 knots in the wires with plenty of room and time to safely stop.  In fact I don't recall a Hornet Ball comms option in A-4E-C 2.0 either. Not even a Clara, when there is no ball visible. As for Kuz 2017, well there is no OLS overlay or visible on approach, so as sad as it is, Kuz 2017 recoveries are flown the deck type, which is a bad idea, as flying the deck does not take deck heave into account.

[Nealius]

Harriers never operated on CV or CVN except for some one-off training sorties. 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

In Gulf '91 there were few combat missions flown. CV-59 deck texture even has that old axial deck line for Harriers, that was originally painted for experimental C-130 SuperCOD trials. It is a rare thing for Harriers to operate off CV, and I believe that when they do, they use axial deck line and start mid ships but outside landing area foul lines and run between cats and off the bow. In DCS, there is really no good reason why Harrier mission cannot be flown from CVN and recover on same. But without calls, LSO will always grade Harrier recovery as UNSAFE.

[Nealius]

There were no Harrier combat missions flown off of CVs during the '91 Gulf War. The only Harrier "operation" using CVs during the Gulf War was as a ferry going home after deployment. VMA-231 and -542 on Kennedy and others on Saratoga (AV-8B Harrier II Units of Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm, p.91).

Edited February 5, 2022 by Nealius

[DmitriKozlowsky]

5 hours ago, Nealius said:

There were no Harrier combat missions flown off of CVs during the '91 Gulf War. The only Harrier "operation" using CVs during the Gulf War was as a ferry going home after deployment. VMA-231 and -542 on Kennedy and others on Saratoga (AV-8B Harrier II Units of Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm, p.91).

 

OK.  

But SC still needs to have ball and clara calls to AV-8B.

[Nealius]

Only if the LHA gets included in the SC package. 

[bonesvf103]

On rare occasion--but it does happen--I get a last moment wave off call literally right when I am about to touch the deck.  As in the IFLOFS is pretty much right at my 9:00, or I actually touch down a millisecond after his call.  No way to bolter or waveoff then.  This is in the F-14 and F/A-18.  I just figure it's lag and disregard any cut pass he may give me and cuss him out haha

v6,

boNes

 

 

[Dragon1-1]

On 2/6/2022 at 3:04 AM, Nealius said:

Only if the LHA gets included in the SC package. 

As a matter of fact, the LHA does get SC comms for those who have SC. It has the same problem, too. So, the issue is very much relevant. 

[Nealius]

The lag in the LSO callouts has gotten more apparent since the burble is implemented. Getting floaty in the burble, I bolter just after the 4-wire. As my tires impact the deck the LSO gives me a waveoff. When my tires have already hit the deck.

If I EGAR the LSO will give me EGIW, which is two steps (AR->IC->IW?) too late.

The trick in getting this bug recognized is that there's no real way to get a reliable, short replay track due to unrealiable .trk files and the length of time it takes in the carrier pattern. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Nealius