OpenXR Guide - Deprecated - This time for real (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)

[tomeye]

I would remove NIS.

[schmiefel]

2 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

IPD of the headset is NOT the same as IPD in DCS

Sure? I thought this is for PD and IPD should always match your eyes IPD. If you are right ED should at least change their naming of those quite important settings to something that's correct. Maybe they also mixed PD and IPD as its often used synonymous as a standard naming for the distance of the pupils (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pupillary_distance).

[hallaghan]

5 minutes ago, tomeye said:

I would remove NIS.

I will remove NIS, as others already suggested but just want to restate that the game was blurry prior to activating NIS.

[speed-of-heat]

yep certain ... headset IPD should match the physical IPD of your eyes.  IPD in DCS is world scale , PD is Pixel Density (super sampling)

Edited January 17, 2023 by speed-of-heat

[schmiefel]

Well, then ED should really change their naming because in this case none of their acronyms really matches the conventional meaning.

[speed-of-heat]

1 minute ago, schmiefel said:

Well, then ED should really change their naming because in this case none of their acronyms really matches the conventional meaning.

this has been mentioned before...  and yep ... and its still IPD

[hallaghan]

2 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

this has been mentioned before...  and yep ... and its still IPD

What IPD do you have set in DCS? Also, if it's meant to be world scale, does higher IPD mean the world will appear bigger in comparison to you?

[dburne]

23 minutes ago, hallaghan said:

I believe I read somewhere that IPD in DCS is not the same as the IPD on our VR Headsets. For me, my own IPD is 62 but someone suggested I use 65 in DCS as they aren't related. Can't confirm that one myself.

@speed-of-heat When I ran DCS in steamvr, locked at 45fps with my headset in 90hz, I had no blurriness but since so many people suggested that openxr gives better performance, I switched to try it out but noticed it's blurrier than steamvr.

 

IPD setting in DCS is more a scale size than anything, move it up and down and watch the size of your cockpit increase and decrease. Really not the same as setting IPD in a VR headset for your eye seperation distance.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

58 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

reprojection will help with certain kinds of blurring.  for me if i run below the framerate of the headset, i get a blurring externally (its like double vision on everything on the ground) .. if i turn on reprojection, it synthetically generates every other frame, which does produce its own visual artefacts, you need to find out which approach works best for you natural frame rate (60hz, you could likely run now, 90 hz you will have to turn down some settings) or reprojection/motion smoothing or the approach of running as fast as you can at 90hhz , which for me gives the blurring/double vision

Is it the same as some calls this “ghosting”?

[speed-of-heat]

9 minutes ago, hallaghan said:

What IPD do you have set in DCS? Also, if it's meant to be world scale, does higher IPD mean the world will appear bigger in comparison to you?

its not related to performance, but, which ever looks closer to reality for you ... i leave mine at default, because im quite slim, and when i look down at my legs they are about the same size

4 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Is it the same as some calls this “ghosting”?

with motion smoothing, yes thats ghosting... without motion smoothing... i don't know what the other word is called but it is blurring :)

Edited January 17, 2023 by speed-of-heat

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

So, I either turned down the frequency down to 72Hz, or I have to lower the setting. Frankly, I find OpenComposite on Pico4 works a bit better than using Oculus runtime. I guess I still have a lot to figure out. Thanks.

[Grodin]

Is there any way to apply smoothing to head tracking on vr headsets? With trackir i can adjust smoothing so the head movement is not so jittery.

 

Reverb G2 tracking feels very jittery compared to headset with beacons or track ir - any way to apply a smoothing filter to the head track axis?

[hallaghan]

9 minutes ago, Grodin said:

Is there any way to apply smoothing to head tracking on vr headsets? With trackir i can adjust smoothing so the head movement is not so jittery.

 

Reverb G2 tracking feels very jittery compared to headset with beacons or track ir - any way to apply a smoothing filter to the head track axis?

Do you mean the apparent shaking? In OpenXR, you can decrease screen shake. I find for me that something between -25% to -30% works well.

[timcat]

11 hours ago, hallaghan said:

My settings in game are mostly set to high and have 2x MSAA.

Try turning MSAA off. It helps the shimmering but adds to blurriness.

[tomeye]

My only other suggestion would be to start testing one change at a time. Otherwise soon you will hope you never started this.

On the bluriness for me it was always NIS and given your specs you do not need it.

[Grodin]

20 hours ago, hallaghan said:

Do you mean the apparent shaking? In OpenXR, you can decrease screen shake. I find for me that something between -25% to -30% works well.

Yeah the shaking that comes from head tracking - Reverb G2 has quite shaky tracking even in a well lit room because it does not use beacons. Eyes and brains compensate this quite well but its very apparent when looking at a replay that was recorded in VR. I will try that shake reduction setting!

 

23 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

reprojection will help with certain kinds of blurring.  for me if i run below the framerate of the headset, i get a blurring externally (its like double vision on everything on the ground) .. if i turn on reprojection, it synthetically generates every other frame, which does produce its own visual artefacts, you need to find out which approach works best for you natural frame rate (60hz, you could likely run now, 90 hz you will have to turn down some settings) or reprojection/motion smoothing or the approach of running as fast as you can at 90hhz , which for me gives the blurring/double vision

I get "double vision" either way if i'm flying low and look down at the buildings on the ground - they are moving too fast for my fps i assume. As much as i love the general smoothness with reprojection i find the artifacting absolutely unbearable. Apache rotor also messes up the HMD when reprojection is on. Even when looking around in the menu and mission editor causes the edges to flicker and twist. I also find the image very blurry when reprojection is on, it is very apparent when trying to read text on F18/F16 screens without zooming in.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Grodin

[Baldrick33]

8 minutes ago, Grodin said:

Yeah the shaking that comes from head tracking - Reverb G2 has quite shaky tracking even in a well lit room because it does not use beacons. Eyes and brains compensate this quite well but its very apparent when looking at a replay that was recorded in VR. I will try that shake reduction setting!

I have always found the head tracking on my Reverb G1 to be as smooth as other headsets I have had using lighthouse tracking. The issues arise when either the PC performance drops to a level it can't seem to keep up or hardware issues (I needed a replacement cable due to tracking issues). By default the G2 pushes the PC harder (higher resolution due to the change in lenses). I don't think there is a fundamental issue with Reverb tracking due to using inside out tracking.

[edmuss]

I've never experienced shaky tracking with my G2 and I use it in dim red light.  You can use the openxr tookit to apply shaking smoothing but the only time I would want to use it would be for scanning for targets using the HMD and shvkal in the KA50.  Note that enabling the shaking smoothing will cause significant reprojection artifacts if you have it on.

[Grodin]

53 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

I have always found the head tracking on my Reverb G1 to be as smooth as other headsets I have had using lighthouse tracking. The issues arise when either the PC performance drops to a level it can't seem to keep up or hardware issues (I needed a replacement cable due to tracking issues). By default the G2 pushes the PC harder (higher resolution due to the change in lenses). I don't think there is a fundamental issue with Reverb tracking due to using inside out tracking.

 

45 minutes ago, edmuss said:

I've never experienced shaky tracking with my G2 and I use it in dim red light.  You can use the openxr tookit to apply shaking smoothing but the only time I would want to use it would be for scanning for targets using the HMD and shvkal in the KA50.  Note that enabling the shaking smoothing will cause significant reprojection artifacts if you have it on.

Interesting, i might have an issue with my headset in this case. Would you mind uploading a trackfile where you look around a bit and then hold your head still so i could compare it to my track files - i still have the original cable on my G2 maybe that could cause it.

 

With trackir my recordings look smooth, like Wags videos on youtube. But when i do a track with my G2 it shakes like i was having a seizure or something.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Grodin

[edmuss]

I believe that you're right with the brain and eyes making some compensation and that if you record the output it will be shaky without the smoothing filter; trackir will have the filter applied to it.  I think you'll see the same with any headset if no filtering is applied.  As I said with the filtering disabled the KA50 shkval movement is fast and jittery when slaved to the helmet mounted sight, add the motion filter and it's much smoother.

Can't record a track as I'm at work though, I would bet that you get the same result - I don't think it's a specific issue to the G2 though

[Comante]

In my experience with the G2 the jittery tracking is just my heartbeat and breath, is just that without visor our brain is able to stabilize the image, while in VR this ability is lost, the main problem is that mouse cursor movemet is linked solidly to head movement. some slack would make this jittering unnoniceable... is there a way to free mouse position from headset?

[Baldrick33]

12 minutes ago, Comante said:

In my experience with the G2 the jittery tracking is just my heartbeat and breath, is just that without visor our brain is able to stabilize the image, while in VR this ability is lost, the main problem is that mouse cursor movemet is linked solidly to head movement. some slack would make this jittering unnoniceable... is there a way to free mouse position from headset?

It has been asked for some time....

 

[edmuss]

See my mouse cursor is pretty stable when it's slaved to the headset, perhaps it's a physiological thing?

[Grodin]

On 1/18/2023 at 1:30 PM, edmuss said:

I believe that you're right with the brain and eyes making some compensation and that if you record the output it will be shaky without the smoothing filter; trackir will have the filter applied to it.  I think you'll see the same with any headset if no filtering is applied.  As I said with the filtering disabled the KA50 shkval movement is fast and jittery when slaved to the helmet mounted sight, add the motion filter and it's much smoother.

Can't record a track as I'm at work though, I would bet that you get the same result - I don't think it's a specific issue to the G2 though

I tried the openxr shake reduction, worked perfectly, at 30% its almost as smooth as my trackir!

[Sr.]

https://www.bigtechwire.com/2023/01/20/microsoft-fires-entire-mixed-reality-toolkit-mrtk-development-team/?amp=1