Some key binding to copy cursor/selected unit coordinates from F10 into temporary message on screen

[FalcoGer]

I'm sure everyone has a piece of paper, tablet or phone before them when they have DCS running. I wasted dozens of pieces of paper and plenty of ink when writing down coordinates just to copy them into the aircraft's navigation system.

There are other solutions, but they're clunky and inconvenient. For example there is a program that creates a screenshot and reads the coordinates with OCR and then actions keybindings to enter those for specific aircraft.

 

I would like to propose something simple. When you are on the F10 map, you select the coordinate format you desire as usual. Then you hover over some position that you wish to copy into your aircraft and press a key binding, for example Shift + F10 or something. This stores the cursor coordinates in a queue. When you select an object (Ground unit, airport, ship, anything that pops up a coordinate view in the botton left) and you hit that key binding, that object is stored in that queue also.

Then when you leave F10 you press that key binding it pops the first set of coordinates into one of those messages that appear in the top right until the key is pressed again. The message should be formatted thus

Coordinate queue (5/12)
Zu 23 Emplacement | Ru (Red)
37T BV 42348 94321 | 456 ft
Hdg 255° | 0kt

Previous LCtrl + F10  |  Next LShift + F10
Delete LAlt + F10  |  Clear LCtrl + LAlt + F10

or

Coordinate queue (1/1)
Terrain
37T MN 12345 67890 | 63 ft

Delete LAlt + F10

[FalcoGer]

Alternatively, some integration with the kneeboard. Every time you press a button you add a line to some kneeboard page that's always present. maybe a little X next to each line that you can click to make it disappear. Even one page per button press would be okay. Have a little picture of the map where the key was pressed to fill the empty space, have all the coordinate formats on there and a button to delete the page. Anything to make it easier to copy F10 coordinates into the cockpit without using pen and paper.

[drspankle]

I've just requested the same thing as I use VR, which makes it even more of a pain. Apparently the creation of user steerpoints in the F10 map in MP is on its way, so that should help.

Dr Spankle

[sirrah]

On 4/1/2022 at 1:36 AM, FalcoGer said:

I'm sure everyone has a piece of paper, tablet or phone before them when they have DCS running. I wasted dozens of pieces of paper and plenty of ink when writing down coordinates just to copy them into the aircraft's navigation system.

There are other solutions, but they're clunky and inconvenient. For example there is a program that creates a screenshot and reads the coordinates with OCR and then actions keybindings to enter those for specific aircraft.

 

I would like to propose something simple. When you are on the F10 map, you select the coordinate format you desire as usual. Then you hover over some position that you wish to copy into your aircraft and press a key binding, for example Shift + F10 or something. This stores the cursor coordinates in a queue. When you select an object (Ground unit, airport, ship, anything that pops up a coordinate view in the botton left) and you hit that key binding, that object is stored in that queue also.

Then when you leave F10 you press that key binding it pops the first set of coordinates into one of those messages that appear in the top right until the key is pressed again. The message should be formatted thus

Coordinate queue (5/12)
Zu 23 Emplacement | Ru (Red)
37T BV 42348 94321 | 456 ft
Hdg 255° | 0kt

Previous LCtrl + F10  |  Next LShift + F10
Delete LAlt + F10  |  Clear LCtrl + LAlt + F10

or

Coordinate queue (1/1)
Terrain
37T MN 12345 67890 | 63 ft

Delete LAlt + F10

Although your first paragraph indicates that you don't use VR , the rest of your wish makes sense.

It would indeed be useful to not have to constantly switch between the cockpit and F10 map.

It is however a bit more complicated than what you show in your example, as not all modules use the same coordinate systems. 

While the format in your example would for instance be useful in the A-10 or Apache, it won't be for the Viper and Hornet.

Edited May 14, 2022 by sirrah

[lefuneste01]

Hello, I did a copy paste from map to cockpit view (VR only) in my mod at least for one year :

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by lefuneste01

[SharpeXB]

Well if you want to play “simulator”, writing down coordinates onto the kneeboard and entering them into the CDU is exactly the thing to do. 

[upyr1]

11 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Well if you want to play “simulator”, writing down coordinates onto the kneeboard and entering them into the CDU is exactly the thing to do. 

True but something in game that that simulates using a knee pad and other tools a real pilot would have, would be a good idea. As it is hard to see a real kneeboard in vr. 

[draconus]

Yep, imho nothing beats realism of real pen and paper on your lap but for VR there is writable kneeboard needed - either with mouse or VR controller.

[SharpeXB]

A solution for VR is pass through video mixed reality. You could just see your physical kneeboard and write on it. 

[upyr1]

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

A solution for VR is pass through video mixed reality. You could just see your physical kneeboard and write on it. 

Not all headsets are mixed reality, so you need something in DCS that works with all headsets so something in DCS

[SharpeXB]

Just now, upyr1 said:

Not all headsets are mixed reality, so you need something in DCS that works with all headsets so something in DCS

No but I can see this eventually being a common feature. All of VR is headed in this direction. Plus I can’t imagine how you would write or type on an in-game kneeboard when using VR. 

[upyr1]

4 hours ago, draconus said:

Yep, imho nothing beats realism of real pen and paper on your lap but for VR there is writable kneeboard needed - either with mouse or VR controller.

exactly, though if something like what the OP gets implmented it needs to be labed a cheat

[Phantom711]

vor einer Stunde schrieb SharpeXB:

No but I can see this eventually being a common feature. All of VR is headed in this direction. Plus I can’t imagine how you would write or type on an in-game kneeboard when using VR. 

Ok...I help your imagination: How about a virtual keyboard on the kneeboard. And of course the kneeboard should be available in the F10 map. Everything is better than having to take off the headset and writing a grid down on paper.

And while we`re at it: For the love of god make the gridsystem inthe upper left corner of the F10 map switchable by a click on a button with the mouse instead of a keybind!

[SharpeXB]

43 minutes ago, Phantom711 said:

Ok...I help your imagination: How about a virtual keyboard on the kneeboard.

Why not just type the data into the CDU instead of the kneeboard? The whole point of using a pencil and paper is that it’s faster than pressing keys. If you’re going to use keys then just use the keys in the cockpit. I’m thinking of a different scenario such as communicating with a JTAC. Honestly using the F10 map to get targets isn’t very realistic since there no map like that IRL

Really you don’t need a kneeboard in the game because you can just see the radio speech. IRL you’re transcribing but that’s not needed in the game. 

[lefuneste01]

7 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Why not just type the data into the CDU instead of the kneeboard? The whole point of using a pencil and paper is that it’s faster than pressing keys. If you’re going to use keys then just use the keys in the cockpit. I’m thinking of a different scenario such as communicating with a JTAC. Honestly using the F10 map to get targets isn’t very realistic since there no map like that IRL

Really you don’t need a kneeboard in the game because you can just see the radio speech. IRL you’re transcribing but that’s not needed in the game. 

Realistic when you can not use your finger to press keyboard keys ?

Radio speech are often not displayed enough time to allow me to type the coordinate into the needed system, even if I am using the mouse. The problem in VR is you can not have together same things than in IRL, that is having on tour knee  a map or a written note  you can easilly read and capacity to type keys to enter the coordinate. You have to switch  from one view to another.

Are you playing in VR ?

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, Phantom711 said:

Ok...I help your imagination: How about a virtual keyboard on the kneeboard. And of course the kneeboard should be available in the F10 map. Everything is better than having to take off the headset and writing a grid down on paper.

And while we`re at it: For the love of god make the gridsystem inthe upper left corner of the F10 map switchable by a click on a button with the mouse instead of a keybind!

An in game keyboard and the ability to copy from a message would work. Since the f10 map can be disabled copying from it should be an option too

[sirrah]

9 hours ago, lefuneste01 said:

Are you playing in VR ?

He is not, so it's pretty pointless (impossible) trying to explain or argue over it

 

[SharpeXB]

16 hours ago, lefuneste01 said:

Radio speech are often not displayed enough time to allow me to type the coordinate into the needed system, even if I am using the mouse.

So that’s the issue, if you don’t have enough time to use the mouse on the CDU how would you be able to use a kneeboard keypad? It’s the same mechanic. As a plus now we will have a “repeat message” function which helps. The idea of having an on-screen keyboard in DCS is a good one though, perhaps make it usable for everything and not just a kneeboard. But it still seems rather clunky to use. 

[sirrah]

58 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

As a plus now we will have a “repeat message” function which helps.

Was this confirmed somewhere by ED? That certainly would be a great addition!

[SharpeXB]

31 minutes ago, sirrah said:

Was this confirmed somewhere by ED? That certainly would be a great addition!

I could swear I saw that somewhere but now I can’t find it. 

[Phantom711]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb SharpeXB:

I could swear I saw that somewhere but now I can’t find it. 

Well still, I would like to be able to take a look at the F10 map and somehow write down a coordinate without taking off my headset. A pilot certainly has a hardcopy area map with him and can read coordinates off of it, right?

Real life use case? ATC tells you to fly to a certain waypoint, that you had not put into your system. Now you look at your (IFR-) chart and punch the coordinates of that fix into your system. I could probably think of a whole bunch more situations that would require taking coordinates from a map...

[lefuneste01]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

So that’s the issue, if you don’t have enough time to use the mouse on the CDU how would you be able to use a kneeboard keypad? It’s the same mechanic. As a plus now we will have a “repeat message” function which helps. The idea of having an on-screen keyboard in DCS is a good one though, perhaps make it usable for everything and not just a kneeboard. But it still seems rather clunky to use. 

I did the copy/paste feature of my mod, it's far enough for my need. AltF3 in cockpit view copy the message and maintain its display, Alt F3 in map view copy map coordinates and display them when in cockpit view. Alt F5 clear all. That's enough to make things easier..

Edited May 16, 2022 by lefuneste01

[FalcoGer]

On 5/14/2022 at 10:24 AM, sirrah said:

Although your first paragraph indicates that you don't use VR , the rest of your wish makes sense.

It would indeed be useful to not have to constantly switch between the cockpit and F10 map.

It is however a bit more complicated than what you show in your example, as not all modules use the same coordinate systems. 

While the format in your example would for instance be useful in the A-10 or Apache, it won't be for the Viper and Hornet.

 

Which is why I said that you select the coordinate format first (LAlt + Y), which would then be the one you get into your messages.

[sirrah]

7 minutes ago, FalcoGer said:

Which is why I said that you select the coordinate format first (LAlt + Y), which would then be the one you get into your messages.

Ah yes.. I missed that

[FalcoGer]

My issue is that you can either have the F10 map open or you can not. If you have it open you can't type the coordinates anywhere. So the solutions are:

- Repeatedly toggle F10, copy a few numbers, then because you have forgotten half of them, go back and repeat. I'm sure some people are better than this than me, but I can remember about 5 or 6 digits, meaning I have to go to the map 3 times to copy any coordinates and the respective altitude into the aircraft.

- Use real pen and paper, which is a waste. paper and ink cost money, admitedly not a lot, but it also makes a mess of my desk having dozens of loose pieces of paper around, wasting about 1 A4 page every time I play DCS. I don't care for VR because I don't have it. But as some people stated before, using VR prevents the use of this option.

- Use a tablet or other device. I don't have one, neither should I be forced to buy one. I have a phone, but writing on paper and writing on a tiny phone are two different things, it's clunky, illegible unless you use huge letters and of course you need to have your phone at your desk with you. Again an issue with VR.

- Be able to use the aircraft's navigation system while the map is open. This is currently not possible, nor feasible to implement anytime soon. Maybe have the F10 map not go full screen but open in a little window you can drag around would work, though then you'd have to be able to freeze the coordinate readout while you move your mouse over to your cockpit to type it in.

So I propose a simple in game solution that doesn't add any "cheating" by not writing the coordinates into paper but into a virtual message system. It's just convenience and user interface design that makes sense to me. Everything is there already, so I don't see how not using real paper is "cheating". Using the F10 map is a cheat in itself, because a real pilot can't just press F10 and read coordinates off a screen. At best they have a map on their lap, maybe a tablet. What I propose doesn't add any more cheating. Even if the server is set to display only own aircraft, or display only terrain and no units, you can still read off coordinates. copying them would be a nice thing to have available. A cheat would be if you just press a key binding and a new waypoint pops into your aircraft by magic.

Edited May 18, 2022 by FalcoGer