AMD 5800X3D, the new King for flight simulators?

[dburne]

Yep CPU and GPU are all about a balancing act to have them each compliment each other.

One reason I have not gone the 4090 route for now, not quite ready to replace my Z390 MB and 9900k CPU just yet. Maybe late next year.

[edmuss]

17 minutes ago, Supmua said:

I'm very skeptical about significant *GPU* performance jump by just upgrading CPU, it's more likely to be related to the final fps but this is has to do with both GPU and CPU frametime numbers.  I'm upgrading my CPU from 9900K to 5800X3D soon and I would be shocked if there is that much improvement in GPU performance.  Already have all the 9900K/3090 and 9900K/4090 frametime numbers from various missions waiting to crosscheck.

 

I was also sceptical about the benefit that the CPU would make to the GPU, I was expecting none to write home about as my CPU times have always been less than my GPU times. I saw uplift even with a thoroughly saturated GPU that was running at 100% load constantly.

I would anticipate that it will still improve the frametimes of the 4090 although not by the same percentages that I saw with the 3070. I guess you might get a ms or so less perhaps?

17 minutes ago, Supmua said:

I'm very skeptical about significant *GPU* performance jump by just upgrading CPU, it's more likely to be related to the final fps but this is has to do with both GPU and CPU frametime numbers.  I'm upgrading my CPU from 9900K to 5800X3D soon and I would be shocked if there is that much improvement in GPU performance.  Already have all the 9900K/3090 and 9900K/4090 frametime numbers from various missions waiting to crosscheck.

 

I was also sceptical about the benefit that the CPU would make to the GPU, I was expecting none to write home about as my CPU times have always been less than my GPU times. I saw uplift even with a thoroughly saturated GPU that was running at 100% load constantly.

I would anticipate that it will still improve the frametimes of the 4090 although not by the same percentages that I saw with the 3070. I guess you might get a ms or so less perhaps? Be interested to find out

[Supmua]

Just now, edmuss said:

I was also sceptical about the benefit that the CPU would make to the GPU, I was expecting none to write home about as my CPU times have always been less than my GPU times. I saw uplift even with a thoroughly saturated GPU that was running at 100% load constantly.

I would anticipate that it will still improve the frametimes of the 4090 although not by the same percentages that I saw with the 3070. I guess you might get a ms or so less perhaps?

I'll have the exact numbers after the upgrade, can also pop the 3090 back in to check.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

1 minute ago, edmuss said:

Be interested to find out

Yup we need hard numbers. I really interested to know more how i5 13600K fares agains R7 5800X3D.

[Supmua]

28 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Yup we need hard numbers. I really interested to know more how i5 13600K fares agains R7 5800X3D.

No idea about 13600K, it doesn’t beat 5800X3D in MSFS but dunno about DCS.  But that CPU will create a huge chunk of market share for Intel for sure, a gaming powerhouse that is very affordable.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Supmua

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Yep CPU and GPU are all about a balancing act to have them each compliment each other.

One reason I have not gone the 4090 route for now, not quite ready to replace my Z390 MB and 9900k CPU just yet. Maybe late next year.

Might not be a bad idea to wait.  Intel 14th gen will use a new socket so if you upgrade now it’s a dead end for the next upgrade (new motherboard, etc.). For Ryzen the Zen3/AM4 platform is also a similar dead end, and for Zen4/AM5 it’s better to wait for the X3D version next year.  The only reason to do it now would be pricing advantage from much cheaper components such as motherboard and DDR4 RAM from the older gen platform.  The next gen motherboard pricing is really crazy now.

For this Ryzen upgrade, it will cost me around $600 (cpu, mobo, cooler).  However, had I chose the new Intel route with DDR5 it would’ve costed me around $1500 (CPU, mobo, cooler, RAM) using decent components.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Supmua

[TheRBT]

Here is an excellent review from Digital Foundry:

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2022-intel-core-i9-13900k-core-i5-13600k-review?page=2

It shows the 13900K and 7900X blowing the 5800X3D out of the water in MSFS. 20-30% gains with the 13900K and 11-20% gains with the 7900X. Digital Foundry is the most reputable hardware tester out there. 

I think it is all about settings and test scenarios and even the Windows versions as the new H2 update messed up some of the newer AMD chips. 

Personally, I would pick the 7900X as the winner based on this review as it has the best 1% and 5% lows which is what matters the most for stutters. Although it might be a good idea to wait for the Windows bug to be fixed first or just get the 7700K which doesn't have the scheduling issues. The 13900K has higher average FPS but will have more stutters. Also, higher average is misleading because that is due to high 1% and 5% which are completely worthless for gameplay. So if you remove those outliers from the average, the AMD wins in the average too. 

The 5800X3D is just not in the same league which is what should be expected based on how cache works. Cache is only useful when there is a cache hit. 

If the 7000 X3D chips can retain the speeds of their base models while adding cache, they will win. But that might be tricky to achieve IMO. 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by TheRBT

[Supmua]

^^Those MSFS numbers for the 5800X3D seem strangely low compared to every other sources that I’ve seen.

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/amd-5800x3d-performance/510937

[TheRBT]

20 minutes ago, Supmua said:

^^Those MSFS numbers for the 5800X3D seem strangely low compared to every other sources that I’ve seen.

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/amd-5800x3d-performance/510937

 

You can't compare numbers across different benchmarks at all, especially 6 months apart. Different OS version, different game version, different settings, different RAM speeds, different cooling and clocks etc. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by TheRBT

[ackattacker]

Those numbers are compelling if you are a MSFS player. Unfortunately DCS is it’s own animal and not nearly as optimized for multi core CPU’s. Note how the MSFS numbers scale dramatically with core count. This doesn’t happen with DCS. DCS is all about keeping that one main core fed, and the cache helps with that dramatically.

Edited October 24, 2022 by ackattacker

[wju]

23 hours ago, Supmua said:

I'm very skeptical about significant *GPU* performance jump by just upgrading CPU, it's more likely to be related to the final fps but this has to do with both GPU and CPU frametime numbers.  I'm upgrading my CPU from 9900K to 5800X3D soon and I would be shocked if there is that much improvement in GPU performance.  Already have all the 9900K/3090 and 9900K/4090 frametime numbers from various missions waiting to crosscheck.

 

please do not forget to share your frametime numbers after upgrade!

[Supmua]

3 hours ago, wju said:

please do not forget to share your frametime numbers after upgrade!

Yeah, need another day or two to agonize over which motherboard to use.  Already got CPU, cooler is coming in tomorrow.

[Spectre1986]

Just FYI for anyone that's not aware, CPU and GPU utilization percentage tell you somewhere between "very little" and "nothing". You want frame times from the GPU and the frame times from the CPU+RAM, lower are better. You can get these times with a number of free tools like MSI Afterburner (enable it deep in the settings), with paid tools like fpsVR, or even built into DCS. I believe the default is RCTRL+Pause twice, it'll show a block of data. IIRC GPU frame time is just called "Frame Time" (shown in the first line or near it) and CPU+RAM frame time is near the center of the block of info and is labeled "Simulation".

You will need a very complex single player mission or busy multiplayer server to realistically test CPU+RAM performance in DCS. Make sure you add things like MRLS, cluster munitions, and dozens (hundreds with Raptor Lake?) of ground units moving off-road to really tax CPU+RAM. Quick start or simple mission testing is pointless and will give bad results.

Also, disabling hyperthreading and the little cores is always worth testing with DCS. Obviously, overclocking is always helpful too, but more limited with Raptor Lake.

I'm very close to upgrading but need the data for VR.

Thanks, in advance.

i7-8086K@5.1Ghz
32GB@3.6GHz
3090@stock
2TB NVMe
Reverb G2
Index

[Joao Fonseca]

Hi all,

I’m considering getting a new PC for XP12.

My budget doesn’t allow me to get a better graphics card than a 3060ti which is already expensive. In terms of CPU I’m looking at 13600k and 7600x with 32GB DDR4/5.

Will be using only 1x monitor (1440p or 4K if possible).

Any advice please?

 

 

thanks in advance!

Edited October 27, 2022 by Joao Fonseca

[Doncho]

10 hours ago, Joao Fonseca said:

Hi all,

I’m considering getting a new PC for XP12.

My budget doesn’t allow me to get a better graphics card than a 3060ti which is already expensive. In terms of CPU I’m looking at 13600k and 7600x with 32GB DDR4/5.

Will be using only 1x monitor (1440p or 4K if possible).

Any advice please?

 

 

thanks in advance!

 

You can definitely find better GPUs on the used market. The market is saturared with 30 series cards. I'd suggest 3070 or better. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Doncho

[Joao Fonseca]

2 hours ago, Doncho said:

You can definitely find better GPUs on the used market. The market is saturared with 30 series cards. I'd suggest 3070 or better. 

 

Thanks for info, will look at used market as well.

Regarding CPU choice, any recommendation?

[tomcat_driver]

13 minutes ago, Joao Fonseca said:

Thanks for info, will look at used market as well.

Regarding CPU choice, any recommendation?

Depends on what you currently have. If you already have a AM4 motherboard, a 5800x3d is a no brainer. 

[Hiob]

8 minutes ago, tomcat_driver said:

Depends on what you currently have. If you already have a AM4 motherboard, a 5800x3d is a no brainer. 

And the prices for it are dropping atm.

350,- in the €-zone.

[tomcat_driver]

Just now, Hiob said:

And the prices for it are dropping atm.

350,- in the €-zone.

350€ f. sake, bought mine for 430€ last week.

[Hiob]

4 minutes ago, tomcat_driver said:

350€ f. sake, bought mine for 430€ last week.

Sorry...

https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/AMD-Ryzen-7-5800X3D-8x-3-40GHz-So-AM4-WOF_1447835.html

[tomcat_driver]

1 minute ago, Hiob said:

Sorry...

https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/AMD-Ryzen-7-5800X3D-8x-3-40GHz-So-AM4-WOF_1447835.html

[Lange_666]

16 minutes ago, tomcat_driver said:

350€ f. sake, bought mine for 430€ last week.

LOL, payed 475€ 3 weeks ago, local shop had them at 519€ (currently 369).

[Joao Fonseca]

55 minutes ago, tomcat_driver said:

Depends on what you currently have. If you already have a AM4 motherboard, a 5800x3d is a no brainer. 

Going for a new build...

[tomcat_driver]

1 hour ago, Joao Fonseca said:

Going for a new build...

Sorry João, I couldn't answer. I'm not really excited for this new generation of CPUs. Too expensive and way too power hungry.

 

[Topo]

2 hours ago, Joao Fonseca said:

Going for a new build...

 

As for me, I will eventually expect new AMD x3D processors and 4080.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Topo