Which modern jet is the most intuitive to use?

[Zius]

I'm not exactly new to DCS, but up to now, I mostly focussed on analogue jets, mainly Albatros and Viggen, using unguided munitions. I like the way analogue, non-FBW aircraft fly in DCS. I also like the challenge of using unguided munitions (somewhat) effectively.

The Albatros and (in particular) the Viggen are my favourites because I find them very intuitive to fly. For sure, the Viggen has some interesting quirks, but once you get to understand them, I think it's great.

But recently I have become more interested in the "modern fighter jet" part of DCS. In particular, BVR air-to-air combat and using laser guided bombs.

I think there are three jets in DCS which meet my criteria, namely the F-16, the JF-17 and the F/A-18.

The A-10 and the Harrier can't do BVR and are too slow. The Mirage 2000 can do BVR and buddy-lased bombs, but due to lack of FOX3 A2A missiles and own targeting pod I think it's out for me.

I would like to get some opinions on which of the three aircraft is the most intuitive and easiest to learn to fight with. I'm not that interested in overall capability, I'm not looking for the "best" aircraft.

I have all three modules already, but I'm trying to decide which one to spend time on to learn properly.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Zius

[schurem]

Looking at your personal pic, I'd say the viper is a natural fit. It's what's been flying over your house most if not all of your life

[Zius]

Just now, schurem said:

Looking at your personal pic, I'd say the viper is a natural fit. It's what's been flying over your house most if not all of your life

Looking at them is not the same as flying them!

But, yeah, the F-16 in 322 Sqn colours does have a special appeal...

[razo+r]

I personally like the F-16 and the way it handles or would handle once it is fleshed out in DCS. 

And since the JF-17 is very similar, I'll take it as a substitute for it for the time being. 

I'd recommend you the JF-17.

[Mike_Romeo]

@Zius, I recommend you to overfly the chucksguide of each aircraft to get an idea how much you would have to learn and how to operate them. In my opinion, the JF-17 is the most intuitive plane out of the 3 because of its big MFD's and sterile cockpit design.

You can also make use of the trial system. When you start a trial for one aircraft, you can try it out free for two weeks. You can access the trial program here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/personal/licensing/trial

https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-dcs-jf-17-thunder/
https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-dcs-f-16c-viper/
https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-dcs-f-a-18c-hornet/

Edited April 27, 2022 by Mike_Romeo

[Beirut]

I have no interest in the JF-17, and I love the F-18, but the F-16 does seem a bit more straightforward at times. And that cockpit visibility... it's a dream.

[WolfhoundCH]

I flew the F/A-18 and the F-16 in DCS, and the HOTAS logics as well as MFD logics of the F-16 are so much easier to learn than the F/A-18, and thus also easier to keep if you're not flying very often. I can do breaks of 2-3months in the F-16, it takes me two evenings to be right back in there with the muscle memory on all systems as well as flying the aircraft on refuelling, overhead break recoveries etc.

[Sacarino111]

Hi.

as @Eteoklessaid, go for the f-16. It is not finished and has some bugs, but to me it is the most intuitive plane to use.

Saludos.

Saca111

[Exorcet]

The F-16 has an excellent cockpit and control layout, so it gets my vote. The JF-17 is pretty nice, but a little more complex. The Hornet makes a few things overly complicated.

[Hammer1-1]

6 hours ago, Exorcet said:

The F-16 has an excellent cockpit and control layout, so it gets my vote. The JF-17 is pretty nice, but a little more complex. The Hornet makes a few things overly complicated.

I believe the exact oppposite. Personally, I think the JF17 is just a highly updated chinese F-5 and while its a good airframe, maybe a tad bit overstated. The F-16 and F-18 are very similar as they were both developed in competition side by side of one another...and while the F-16 does A2A magnificently, the F-18 does CAS and strike missions the -16 cant. I find the F-18 simpler to use because its all intuitive if youve ever flown the A-10C, while the F-16 has some marginally higher significance in the SEAD and Anti-Armor category as opposed to the F-18s ability to strike anywhere due to its mobile nature.

 

TL;DR

The Viper is amazing at SEAD/A2A/BVR

The Hornet is amazing at CAS/Anti Ship/BFM

The F-17 is well rounded around all of them, but like most chinese stuff, a tad over rated.

IMO, the module currently in development is the easiest module to learn as you can learn the features as they come out "on the fly" where its easier for you to master stuff before more features get added in. Right now thats the Viper. It WAS the Hornet previously.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

All three are very intuitive. In my experience, Hornet and JF are the most, but as you can see there's a lot who disagree.

[CobraKhan]

"Intuitive" is a fancy word for someone like me ...

[Exorcet]

On 4/28/2022 at 1:49 PM, Hammer1-1 said:

I believe the exact oppposite.

You went on to talk about quite a bit more than I did. The original question was about how intuitive the aircraft are, so I only ranked them based on HOTAS and other controls.

[Zius]

On 4/28/2022 at 6:08 AM, WolfhoundCH said:

I flew the F/A-18 and the F-16 in DCS, and the HOTAS logics as well as MFD logics of the F-16 are so much easier to learn than the F/A-18, and thus also easier to keep if you're not flying very often. I can do breaks of 2-3months in the F-16, it takes me two evenings to be right back in there with the muscle memory on all systems as well as flying the aircraft on refuelling, overhead break recoveries etc.

Thanks! That's the kind of answer I am looking for.

Thanks the other who replied and/or voted as well, of course.

Opinions seem to vary quite a bit, but in the poll the F-16 is clearly ahead.

 

On 4/28/2022 at 1:24 AM, Mike_Romeo said:

@Zius, I recommend you to overfly the chucksguide of each aircraft to get an idea how much you would have to learn and how to operate them. In my opinion, the JF-17 is the most intuitive plane out of the 3 because of its big MFD's and sterile cockpit design.

Thanks for the comments!

 

I have looked at Chuck's Guides, but the one for the F-16 is (IIRC) over 738 pages.... which I found "a bit" overwhelming at first glance for a "simplified" guide...

I mean, it's not a flight manual...

 

F-16 => 738 pages

JF-17 => 488

F/A-18 => 712

Mirage 2000 => 335

L-39ZA Albatros => 87 (!!!) and that's the ZA version!!! That's what I call manageable

 

This kind of comparison is hardly fair, I know. But still...

[PlainSight]

VIATA - Viper is always the answer.

[osram]

This kind of poll is hardly representative, imho.

As the number of JF17 owners (and also fanboys :P) is probably much smaller than that of an F16 or F/A18.
I'm gonna be honest, I own almost all modules; and am admittedly not a big fan of either F16 or F18, neither do I have much flight-time there at all, but specifically due to their avionics and "logic"/handling seemed rather underwhelming. Like the modal master-modes in the F16 depending on the "previous" mode. Not a fan of that kind of "modal" states anyways. Not on my hotas config, and not in a plane either. Very unnecessary and counter-intuitive. The king of modal dependencies, " decision flowchart mechanics" and confusion must probably be the Harrier. And also compared to the rather logical example of an A10-C II for instance - the F18 in relation to TGP and modes also has that occasional unintuitive "dependency" thing going, imho.

In any case: You get the "grain of salt" fanboy opinion from the 'minority' here - from the other side of the "spectrum".

The JF-17 is by far one of the most modern jets in DCS: And it shows very clearly.
It therefore has a rather no "BS" and simple, modern straightforward dependencies, ergonomics, usability and avionics.
With some other limitations, or missing "features" due to being a lower-budget plane. But that doesn't hurt it's modern simplicity and usability either.

I say these poll results are very misleading: imho a dry and empiric analysis, or averaged "numbers" of owners actually owning all three...
would possibly lead to the very opposite result. Imho the JF-17 is extremely underrated. Somewhat "niche" in a sense. And very straight-forward.
Dead simple to refresh for sure. Even after longer breaks.

Not even going to mention the SA and combined Radar/SA/RWR page with datalink. etc. even if I'm more of a CAS/A2G guy.
Since you specifically ask for "intuitive use". It is the Jeff: 100%.

[PlainSight]

The problem I have with Jeff is relearning all weapons and avionics from 0. AIM-9 and AIM-120 are engrained in many player's minds for decades. The Viper has another unfair advantage by being around for 20 years, where everyone could learn everything about it for basically free. This all transitions to DCS, where it's almost pick up and play for me.

[WRAITH]

On 4/29/2022 at 3:49 AM, Hammer1-1 said:

I believe the exact oppposite. Personally, I think the JF17 is just a highly updated chinese F-5 and while its a good airframe, maybe a tad bit overstated. The F-16 and F-18 are very similar as they were both developed in competition side by side of one another...and while the F-16 does A2A magnificently, the F-18 does CAS and strike missions the -16 cant. I find the F-18 simpler to use because its all intuitive if youve ever flown the A-10C, while the F-16 has some marginally higher significance in the SEAD and Anti-Armor category as opposed to the F-18s ability to strike anywhere due to its mobile nature.

 

TL;DR

The Viper is amazing at SEAD/A2A/BVR

The Hornet is amazing at CAS/Anti Ship/BFM

The F-17 is well rounded around all of them, but like most chinese stuff, a tad over rated.

IMO, the module currently in development is the easiest module to learn as you can learn the features as they come out "on the fly" where its easier for you to master stuff before more features get added in. Right now thats the Viper. It WAS the Hornet previously.

Perfect! I love both just awesome kit!

[CH4Pz]

Cant speak for the jeff, but do have the F16 and F18 and theyre both incredible. i find the F18 favors the ground an pound a bit more, and weapons, like the mav, just work quicker and easier (and dont require aligning every cold start like the viper) but the viper is better in the air, i mean, both can do both, but theyre stronger in those 2 roles imo. Obviously only one can land on the carrier too, so if you wana open that whole can of worms (its a fun can of worms though!!), then the choice is clear