investigating TILT/erros when using ACL

[Senpai]

My group was trying out the new ACL on carrier.

We all had the right frequency for Data Link,
We all passed the TEST and connected
then half of Us on push time got TILT comands come up on out ACL
We never got updated info.
On second go by my self, i got the hand over right up to 6 miles but it never went into landing mode and CPL just flew me until it broke lock. not even tryign to intercept glide path.
Anyone else had this?

 

One point, when we all called in, 4 of us had the same call in DMI range and alt given, we were all miles from each other and all call outs were 10 min apart.

it was odd.

 

Track is 62mb so cant attach

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Senpai

[Senpai]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AJYYOLWoASdWo6gWjUtBOpEncN0baQW5/view?usp=sharing

 

dont know how to make track smaller and was an issue  we found together so not sure how else to recreate.

Track file linked from my google account.

[Jenson]

Same thing happened here, 6nm, ACLS lock on, but it won't enter Mode 1

[Chain_1]

Same here, can't get it in to mode 1 on the datalink.  I have good indications up until then, other than the verbal hold dme and the link 4 pointer not really aligning, i.e. told to hold at 23, but link 4 points further out into the 30s.

[IvanK]

Trying ACLS on the Stennis , set the mission up as per the ME instructions for ACLS mission building. boxing  ACLS goes through the test and I get ACL 1 on the link 4 display. Then on final all I get T/C mode (Didnt think I was meant to see this in the non Supercarrier version). Flew final on the ICLS and never ever got to see the Tadpole. So to my eye ACLS is not working.

Mission file attached. Note DL Freq is 306

F18__20cu_CV_testACLS.miz

Edited April 29, 2022 by IvanK

[Jenson]

As I created a new case iii mission (not editting the original case iii in DCS), it works, but the DCS default mission won't work.

[BIGNEWY]

37 minutes ago, Jenson said:

As I created a new case iii mission (not editting the original case iii in DCS), it works, but the DCS default mission won't work.

The default missions have not been setup yet for ACLS

[Jenson]

31 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

The default missions have not been setup yet for ACLS

Thanks Bignewy, what i meant was if i took the default mission, added two new command to activate both link 4 and ACLS for the carrier, it still wont work. 

However, if i create a new mission from scratch, then the ACLS will work. 

[Stearmandriver]

Definitely saw some problems testing in multiplayer last night. Seems related to the comms issues you can see in MP, since ACLS is so dependent on the comms tree right now.  We were never able to achieve a condition where 2 players each pushed on time, and both had ACLS guidance in the form of Mode 1 annunciated on the DDI, and a tadpole.  It always occurred that one of us got the guidance and not the other (and it wasn't always whoever was first.)

... and then there's the pitch-down in the wires.  I'm curious; has anyone had a successful coupled Mode 1 approach to an arrested landing, truly hands-off?  In all our testing, every time one of us managed a coupled approach, it ended in a bolter even though the approach put us right in the wires... because the erroneous pitch-down in ground effect meant a flat touchdown. 

The only way we found to make this work was some stick-back input to counter the pitch down (normally on a handflown approach you'll add power in response to this and that counters it enough to result in a hook up, but that doesn't seem to happen automatically on a coupled ACLS.)

[Chain_1]

11 hours ago, Jenson said:

Thanks Bignewy, what i meant was if i took the default mission, added two new command to activate both link 4 and ACLS for the carrier, it still wont work. 

However, if i create a new mission from scratch, then the ACLS will work. 

Same for me.

 

2 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

... and then there's the pitch-down in the wires.  I'm curious; has anyone had a successful coupled Mode 1 approach to an arrested landing, truly hands-off?

The completely coupled approach I got worked fine re: pitchdown, but if I'm using autothrottle without acls the jet drops like a rock and prangs on.  Sometimes the hook catches and sometimes it doesn't.

[BIGNEWY]

There is a problem with MP missions with more than one carrier, the team are working on the issue. 

thanks

[Jenson]

On 4/30/2022 at 3:55 AM, Stearmandriver said:

Definitely saw some problems testing in multiplayer last night. Seems related to the comms issues you can see in MP, since ACLS is so dependent on the comms tree right now.  We were never able to achieve a condition where 2 players each pushed on time, and both had ACLS guidance in the form of Mode 1 annunciated on the DDI, and a tadpole.  It always occurred that one of us got the guidance and not the other (and it wasn't always whoever was first.)

... and then there's the pitch-down in the wires.  I'm curious; has anyone had a successful coupled Mode 1 approach to an arrested landing, truly hands-off?  In all our testing, every time one of us managed a coupled approach, it ended in a bolter even though the approach put us right in the wires... because the erroneous pitch-down in ground effect meant a flat touchdown. 

The only way we found to make this work was some stick-back input to counter the pitch down (normally on a handflown approach you'll add power in response to this and that counters it enough to result in a hook up, but that doesn't seem to happen automatically on a coupled ACLS.)

Yup, I got many successful hands-off landing with ACLS mode 1, in single player missions. 

[pokeraccio]

On 4/29/2022 at 5:27 AM, IvanK said:

Trying ACLS on the Stennis , set the mission up as per the ME instructions for ACLS mission building. boxing  ACLS goes through the test and I get ACL 1 on the link 4 display. Then on final all I get T/C mode (Didnt think I was meant to see this in the non Supercarrier version). Flew final on the ICLS and never ever got to see the Tadpole. So to my eye ACLS is not working.

Mission file attached. Note DL Freq is 306

F18__20cu_CV_testACLS.miz 10.5 kB · 4 downloads

 

hi IvanK, try to remove the Ai f18 flight aerial-2 form your mix or let it spawn already in air (no takeoff/landing waypoint), and test again, I see it's setup to take off from carrier in your mix.

I never tested on stennis/multiplayer but just SC and single player, and I found some strange connection about the waypoint type (take-off/landing) of all the "carrier able" AI planes as I'm trying to track here:

 

[IvanK]

Ok will do. Though I think its weather related. I re jigged this same mission but made it CASE III type weather and all worked ok. Seems to me there is some internal coding that if Weather is better than CASE II and is day you just wont get ACLS available.

Edited May 4, 2022 by IvanK

[Spock14]

I have the same problem with AI. As soon as AI is on the Carrier ACLS wont work. 

Find attached 2 track files, one with AI one without.

track ACLS Needles not working .trktrack ACLS Needles working .trk

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, thanks for making the effort with the tracks, however it contains a mod that we can not use on our dev version for debugging. 

[BIGNEWY]

Some advice, after got TILT the player should reset ACLS for new messages, OFF\ON ACL on DDI and then you will need to decoupled A/P when in T/C mode then couple it again for switching to Mode 1

We will continue to watch for issues, but dont think it is AI related. 

[AvgWhiteGuy]

@BIGNEWY...it's a little bit late when I get TILT...On the Glidepath, Call the Ball, On the Centerline....suddenly TILT and WaveOff!!!!!! Happening almost every time. This is SP.

Edited May 17, 2022 by AvgWhiteGuy

[BIGNEWY]

3 minutes ago, AvgWhiteGuy said:

@BIGNEWY...it's a little bit late when I get TILT...On the Glidepath, Call the Ball, On line Centerline....suddenly TILT and WaveOff!!!!!! Happening almost every time. This is SP.

please attach a track replay showing it happen, I need a good track example without any unofficial mods. 

[AvgWhiteGuy]

@BIGNEWY....my mistake...all good now. A FOD inspection found a static object in the way. The 'suddenly TILT and WaveOff' was a Fouled Deck issue, my apologies.

[BIGNEWY]

4 minutes ago, AvgWhiteGuy said:

@BIGNEWY....my mistake...all good now. A FOD inspection found a static object in the way. The 'suddenly TILT and WaveOff' was a Fouled Deck issue, my apologies.

thanks for letting us know