What do you think about burble effect ?

[cm2]

Did a Case 1 landing in the Hornet just now. It looks like trimming the hornet to high E-Bracket instead of the Middle helps. I managed to get an _OK_ 3 Wires. Recorded it:

 

[Thomas_LOLW]

On 3/27/2023 at 12:54 PM, fagulha said:

That´s the ground effect. The burble effect is in the back of the boat (a few feet from the Rundown) not in the wires.

Yeah, but it seems to be connected to the same setting in DCS. When I switch off "wake turbulence", it apparently also disables the burble and the ground effect on the carrier.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Thomas_LOLW

[fagulha]

6 hours ago, Thomas_LOLW said:

Yeah, but it seems to be connected to the same setting in DCS. When I switch off "wake turbulence", it apparently also disables the burble and the ground effect on the carrier.

 

Yes i think it´s connected. I tested before with/without Wake Turbulence.

[cm2]

so I read on DCS news the Hornet just got updated flight model. 

So is it fixed now the problem with landing? has anyone tried it after  the update?

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/2024-02-16/

Flight Model
For the past several months, we’ve been improving the flight dynamics of the F/A-18C to represent this aircraft’s unique flight qualities even more accurately. Much of this has been focused on expanding the F/A-18C’s high Angle of Attack (AoA) capabilities by adjusting the stabilizer scheduling. These changes will allow maneuvering up to 50 to 55 AoA, compared to mid-30s earlier. This expanded AoA capability will better allow players to take advantage of the F/A-18Cs outstanding low-speed, high-AoA maneuver capability. Note that this expanded AoA capability can result in a dramatic loss of airspeed, if not careful.

Another important improvement is the handling characteristics in Powered Approach (PA) mode when landing. During landing, you will find achieving and maintaining on-speed AoA easier. This is tied to the flight control system changes.

Nose pitch effects have also been added when the speedbrake is extended and retracted to match the real F/A-18C. Overall aerodynamic damping has also been improved to better match F/A-18C handling characteristics.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2024 by cm2

[razo+r]

1 hour ago, cm2 said:

so I read on DCS news the Hornet just got updated flight model. 

So is it fixed now the problem with landing? has anyone tried it after  the update?

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/2024-02-16/

Flight Model
For the past several months, we’ve been improving the flight dynamics of the F/A-18C to represent this aircraft’s unique flight qualities even more accurately. Much of this has been focused on expanding the F/A-18C’s high Angle of Attack (AoA) capabilities by adjusting the stabilizer scheduling. These changes will allow maneuvering up to 50 to 55 AoA, compared to mid-30s earlier. This expanded AoA capability will better allow players to take advantage of the F/A-18Cs outstanding low-speed, high-AoA maneuver capability. Note that this expanded AoA capability can result in a dramatic loss of airspeed, if not careful.

Another important improvement is the handling characteristics in Powered Approach (PA) mode when landing. During landing, you will find achieving and maintaining on-speed AoA easier. This is tied to the flight control system changes.

Nose pitch effects have also been added when the speedbrake is extended and retracted to match the real F/A-18C. Overall aerodynamic damping has also been improved to better match F/A-18C handling characteristics.

 

 

 

It will get fixed, this update hasn't been released yet. 

[TEMPEST.114]

I wish the burble was MODELLED and not a 'fudge' applied to just the F18. IS that ever going to be implemented? 

[Czar66]

46 minutes ago, Elphaba said:

I wish the burble was MODELLED and not a 'fudge' applied to just the F18. IS that ever going to be implemented? 

Burble effect IS already modelled. The tomcat is also affected by the same forces, she is just bigger and heavier. The FM on the F18 is getting a facelift as well.

The effect is connected to the global turbulence simulation. It is worse with strong headwinds, it is lighter with lighter headwinds.
 

 

[TEMPEST.114]

21 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

Burble effect IS already modelled. The tomcat is also affected by the same forces, she is just bigger and heavier. The FM on the F18 is getting a facelift as well.

The effect is connected to the global turbulence simulation. It is worse with strong headwinds, it is lighter with lighter headwinds.
 

 

Are you certain?

 

Because even they had admitted it's a fudge that they do based on player aircraft and position to specific other models. 

Just because it happens behind the tanker and over a runway, doesn't mean its really modelled everywhere else...

Edited February 20, 2024 by Elphaba

[Czar66]

4 hours ago, Elphaba said:

Are you certain?

 

Because even they had admitted it's a fudge that they do based on player aircraft and position to specific other models. 

Just because it happens behind the tanker and over a runway, doesn't mean its really modelled everywhere else...

 

Who's "they" on this??? This thread has nothing useful. Nobody linked to ED has replied to it.

It is not nor ever was per aircraft. Is on the carrier model itself.

DCS 2.7.12.23362 Open Beta (digitalcombatsimulator.com)
 

 

Edited February 20, 2024 by Czar66
Useful links added.

[TEMPEST.114]

10 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

Who's "they" on this??? This thread has nothing useful. Nobody linked to ED has replied to it.

It is not nor ever was per aircraft. Is on the carrier model itself.

DCS 2.7.12.23362 Open Beta (digitalcombatsimulator.com)
 

 

 

You completely missed the point. 

[draconus]

13 hours ago, Elphaba said:

You completely missed the point. 

Please enlighten us.

[Nealius]

On 2/20/2024 at 11:16 PM, Czar66 said:

The effect is connected to the global turbulence simulation. It is worse with strong headwinds, it is lighter with lighter headwinds.

Then they got the Burble modelling wrong. Burble should be weaker with stronger natural winds and worse with more ship-generated wind.

[draconus]

6 hours ago, Nealius said:

Burble should be weaker with stronger natural winds and worse with more ship-generated wind.

With same WOD wouldn't it just change the burble direction behind the carrier?

[Nealius]

25 minutes ago, draconus said:

With same WOD wouldn't it just change the burble direction behind the carrier?

I can only guess that's the mechanics of it: natural wind pushes it further out of the flight path of recovering aircraft. I thought I had a written source but it seems my only source at the moment is word-of-mouth from one of the podcasts, either Jell-O or Manazir/Ward Carrol.

Edited February 23, 2024 by Nealius

[GumidekCZ]

NOT IN SINGLE RW VIDEO of any airplane landing on carrier can be seen similar effect we STILL have now in DCS. THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY NOSE PITCHING UP when reaching the deck before and hitting it with hook.

I was hoping that yesterdays Hornet FM update would fix this idiotic behavior, but unfortunately not
Im still patiently waiting, for fix. Then, and only then I will turn Turbulence effect in settings back to ON - so stupid than vortex behind big aircraft and burble effect behind ship is bound together and not divided into 2 separated setting switches.

Edited May 20, 2024 by GumidekCZ

[fagulha]

3 minutes ago, GumidekCZ said:

NOT IN SINGLE RW VIDEO of any airplane landing on carrier can be seen similar effect we STILL have now in DCS. THERE SHOULD BE NO, PITCHING UP near the end of the deck.

I was hoping that yesterdays Hornet FM update would fix this idiotic behavior, but unfortunately not
Im still patiently waiting, for fix. Than, and only then I will turn Turbulence effect in settings back to ON - so stupid than vortex behind big aircraft and burble effect behind ship is bound together and not divided into 2 separated setting switches.

 

indeed.

[Czar66]

Just to be clear:

Modelled wrong =\= (does not equal) Not modelled.

I also agree that is overdone having seeing onboard videos of the legacy hornet onboard carrier recoveries, but far from a "fudge" as stated before.

This is the only video I could find of the Legacy hornet onboard atm (hud view). I had watched another but I cannot find it among the Super Hornet videos.
F/A-18 Hornet Barricade aboard USS Nimitz (youtube.com)

ED stated through a patch note that's a WIP effect.
DCS 2.7.12.23362 Open Beta (digitalcombatsimulator.com)

My assumption: Perhaps ED solution on implementing the burble effect uses the global turbulence "physics" making it connected to the global turbulence setting, that's maybe why it doesn't have its own setting.

11 hours ago, Nealius said:

Then they got the Burble modelling wrong. Burble should be weaker with stronger natural winds and worse with more ship-generated wind.

I agree. 

[Nealius]

5 hours ago, GumidekCZ said:

NOT IN SINGLE RW VIDEO of any airplane landing on carrier can be seen similar effect we STILL have now in DCS. THERE SHOULD BE NO, NOSE PITCHING UP near the end of the deck.

I was hoping that yesterdays Hornet FM update would fix this idiotic behavior, but unfortunately not
Im still patiently waiting, for fix. Then, and only then I will turn Turbulence effect in settings back to ON - so stupid than vortex behind big aircraft and burble effect behind ship is bound together and not divided into 2 separated setting switches.

 

On the current build I get no pitch up over the deck, and the sudden decrease in AoA bug also appears to be gone. However this is with the wake turbulence setting off.

[GumidekCZ]

23 hours ago, Nealius said:

On the current build I get no pitch up over the deck, and the sudden decrease in AoA bug also appears to be gone. However this is with the wake turbulence setting off.

Thats because these two effects are STUPIDLY connected by single switch in DCS options.  Wake turbulence set to off = Badly modelled Burble off

Edited February 24, 2024 by GumidekCZ

[Volator]

On 2/23/2024 at 2:58 PM, Czar66 said:

I also agree that is overdone

What? ED is overdoing aerodynamic effects in DCS??? This is not possible. Everything is "correct-as-is", because their engineers have applied complicated formulas to simulate what flying aircraft really is all about and how it should feel, so it must be correct. You can see it in practically every module they simulate that these effects are spot on, because flying and controlling planes and helicopters is extremely difficult and the slightest lapse at the controls will certainly lead to desastrous crashes or overstressing the airframe.

 

Sorry for the sarcasm. I still like DCS... (but I'm happy that the F-4 is made by HB).

[Nealius]

10 hours ago, GumidekCZ said:

Thats because these two effects are STUPIDLY connected by single switch in DCS options.  Wake turbulence set to off = Badly modelled Burble off

Previously the AoA bug--causing 3PTIW cut passes--was present regardless of wake turbulence setting.

[PawlaczGMD]

I have discovered that the burble can be greatly reduced by coming in on glideslope. Before, I was usually too low, and you feel the burble more intensely if you pass that low over the ramp, which probably makes sense aerodynamically. If you come in correctly it is not much of an issue, and can be ignored in practice.