Trimming the Ka-50

[crissiloop]

Hello GGTharos,

 

thank you for the tip.

It works like it should without the wheel. But now is the next question: how it will work with the wheel and the stick in combination because i really would like to use the pedals as the rudder-axis.

 

crissiloop.

[GGTharos]

Open the file called producer.cfg and set forcefeedbackenable to false. :)

[jacob426]

Thanks for the quick replies, I have tried setting the FF tune settings to 0 but that didn't work. I will try opening the producer.cfg and disabling FF that way when I get home, I'm guessing that will do the trick.

 

Cheers

 

/Jacob

[crissiloop]

Thanks for the super fast reply.

Deactivated FF in the producers.cfg put in the wheel and all is like it should.:)

 

crissiloop

[CAT_101st]

what are you guys using to open the CFG file?

[hitman]

Notepad.

[CAT_101st]

Had to go thrue propertys to do it thanks

[ronht]

Is there a way to increase the time for the joystick to return to center when trimming?

[Slayer]

Obviously a design oversight if pilots have to do that.....

Edited November 24, 2008 by Slayer
ooops

[Acedy]

Is there a way to increase the time for the joystick to return to center when trimming?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=568724&postcount=17

 

;)

[Dreamboy]

I've been reading carefully this thread about the trim as I think I'm having some problems with it.

 

I've totally understood how it works. But there's something weird as sometimes it works as expected and sometimes not.

 

When it works I manage to feel the force feedback pressure change on my Logitech Wingman Force 3D joystick and the helicopter gets trimmed as expected.

 

Other times I keep pressing the trim button without any noticeable effect and when release cyclic pressure nose goes up like crazy.

 

I've noticed that using the input visualizer (RCtrl+Enter) gives good information about the controls applied. But I have a question about it...

 

I see two lines forming a cross for the pitch and roll controls. The center of this cross is supposed to mark the default cyclic center position. But does this cross settings have to change when pushing the trim button?

 

I've tried to trim many times without seeing any changes in the input visualizer.

 

I've also tried to trim with AP modes on and of and different combinations. Also I guessed if I forgot to turn hydraulics or other system related with trim on. But still not found what makes it sometimes work and others don't.

 

Has anyone similar problems trimming the Ka-50?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

AlphaOneSix and AirTito...

 

IS A PLEASSURE reading you. In a couple of post i have learned more about trim than years before reading docs and PDF about several aircrafts and helicopters.

 

Having this kind of talents here is an honour...

 

Keep posting, always a nice reading...

I agree 100%

[crissiloop]

Hello Dreamboy,

 

i can only answer about the input visualizer (RCtrl+Enter).

When you move the stick, then the little circle should move to the direction of the movement of the stick.

When you then release the Trimmer Button the circle should stay in the last position and don´t move back to center.

And if i understood the manual, then the force feedback stick also should stay in the last position before Trimmer Button was released.

 

crissiloop

 

I've been reading carefully this thread about the trim as I think I'm having some problems with it.

 

I've totally understood how it works. But there's something weird as sometimes it works as expected and sometimes not.

 

When it works I manage to feel the force feedback pressure change on my Logitech Wingman Force 3D joystick and the helicopter gets trimmed as expected.

 

Other times I keep pressing the trim button without any noticeable effect and when release cyclic pressure nose goes up like crazy.

 

I've noticed that using the input visualizer (RCtrl+Enter) gives good information about the controls applied. But I have a question about it...

 

I see two lines forming a cross for the pitch and roll controls. The center of this cross is supposed to mark the default cyclic center position. But does this cross settings have to change when pushing the trim button?

 

I've tried to trim many times without seeing any changes in the input visualizer.

 

I've also tried to trim with AP modes on and of and different combinations. Also I guessed if I forgot to turn hydraulics or other system related with trim on. But still not found what makes it sometimes work and others don't.

 

Has anyone similar problems trimming the Ka-50?

[Dreamboy]

Hello Dreamboy,

 

i can only answer about the input visualizer (RCtrl+Enter).

When you move the stick, then the little circle should move to the direction of the movement of the stick.

When you then release the Trimmer Button the circle should stay in the last position and don´t move back to center.

And if i understood the manual, then the force feedback stick also should stay in the last position before Trimmer Button was released.

 

crissiloop

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

As you say when I move the stick the little diamond moves according to my control. When I click and release trim buttom sometimes I feel a force change on the stick. My joystick then stays in a different position and seems more loose. It doesn't stay in the exact position but centering force is different as if it was in the original position. Maybe this is a hardware limitation of the joystick (Logited Force 3D Pro).

 

Sometimes it seems that clicking the trim button has no effect. Here's where I can't understand what's happening with trimming.

 

As I said there isn't any clue of the trim settings on the controls visualizer. It would be great if the cross center sets his position according to the current trim setting.

[Dreamboy]

Buggy trimmer behaviour

 

I've been doing some testing and search information about the trim system on the Ka-50. After many test I reached the conclusion that there's something wrong with it.

 

I've tryied to create a mission for a test fly. I've tryied a cold start from the parking and a running start from the runway. On both situations trim button was totally ignored. No force feedback response and no trimming on the cyclic.

 

Trim button was working becouse when activating auto-hover mode the small square reseted when pressing trim. I've activated control visualization with RCtr+Enter and noticed that cyclic always returned to the center of the cross position.

 

Then I tryed instant action and suddently trim seems to work and I have also force feedback, even joystick vibrates during flight.

 

I've checked input visualization. The cyclic positon diamon was on a forwar centered position. Then I tryed to add some roll by turning to the right and press trim. The diamond on the input visualizer instead staying on the right as commanded returned to a center forward positon.

 

I've also noticed that when activating flight director I have a double line indicator in the HUD that seems to keep attitude every time I press trim button.

 

The only axis that seems to react as expected to trim is the rudder axis. If I press right pedal to get about 50% right yaw and press trim the rudder indicator on the visualizer stays exactly there.

 

I've still not found any logic on this behaviour and I'm totaly confused.

[Vitesse2l]

I have found that there is no force feedback if I take control in the first training mission, and the joystick needs to be re-centred after releasing the trim button.

 

In ordinary missions (both Russian and user created) the force feedback works and the joystick centre is set to the trimmed position when the button is released.

 

At least that is how it works for me! I found that I had to reduce the feedback strength on my MS Sidewinder before I got comfortable.

 

BTW No ffb when I take control in track replays either.

 

Is that similar to what you are getting?

 

Cheers!

[peterj]

Funny thing- I've worked with ex-Mi-17 pilots on Ka-32 and they've told me the same- often in hover they've used to fly with trim button pressed in the Mil. They don't do that in the Kamov anymore, although the loading mechanism and the solenoids (electro-magnetical brakes) are identical. I guess it's the autopilot that makes the difference.

Good to know. From MSFS I'm used to not having any tension on the stick (FFB) so hovering with it is different, unkowingly I have been practising the pressed trim button technique.

 

But I see that you don't need to do that, you can have the tension on and rather than flying with your fingertips you apply some pressure to do corrections. I wonder how much tension there is on the springs, is this acccurately modelled with 100% MSFFB2? :)

[Weta43]

It doesn't stay in the exact position but centering force is different as if it was in the original position. Maybe this is a hardware limitation of the joystick (Logited Force 3D Pro).

Can you turn off the centering forces and turn the FFB to high (You have swapped axis on the FFB haven't you?) then there will be no force on the stick after trimming at all (at least this works with an MSFFB2.)

 

I've also noticed that when activating flight director I have a double line indicator in the HUD that seems to keep attitude every time I press trim button.

 

Do you mean that the indicator re-sets ? because trimming also sets a new altitude for the AP to "hold" to

[Dreamboy]

Can you turn off the centering forces and turn the FFB to high (You have swapped axis on the FFB haven't you?) then there will be no force on the stick after trimming at all (at least this works with an MSFFB2.)

 

Do you mean that the indicator re-sets ? because trimming also sets a new altitude for the AP to "hold" to

 

I will try to make changes on the FFB as you suggested and report back the results. I think there must be some problem related to this.

 

What seems wrong is that sometimes it seems I get some timming and FFB functions and others nothing at all.

 

I haven't swapped any axis.

 

One weird thing is that looking at the control input visualizer (RCtrl+Enter) I can see clearly that the trimmer is not working for the pitch and roll axis, but works perfectly for the rudder axis.

 

I command right pedal, click trim and the right pedal control indicator stays exactly there. I command cyclic right roll, click trim and the control indicator returns to center. Really weird.

[slug88]

Sounds like you aren't using the trim properly...you're supposed to hold down the trimmer, then move the stick, and then release the trimmer while the stick is still in the new position.

 

I command right pedal, click trim and the right pedal control indicator stays exactly there. I command cyclic right roll, click trim and the control indicator returns to center. Really weird.

[Weta43]

Go to controls, Axis Comands, FF Tune, and check "swap Axis" - also, if you can, remove centering forces as I mentioned, turn up the FFB forces, then try that in game :-)

 

Sounds like you aren't using the trim properly...you're supposed to hold down the trimmer, then move the stick, and then release the trimmer while the stick is still in the new position.

 

With a FFB stick, the way he's doing it should still work, just that moving it to the new position then hitting trim might mean that there'll just be a noticably release of forces as the trimmer is hit that could cause some over-control. The stick should still trim to the new position though.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Weta43

[Dreamboy]

Go to controls, Axis Comands, FF Tune, and check "swap Axis" - also, if you can, remove centering forces as I mentioned, turn up the FFB forces, then try that in game :-)

 

 

 

With a FFB stick, the way he's doing it should still work, just that moving it to the new position then hitting trim might mean that there'll just be a noticably release of forces as the trimmer is hit that could cause some over-control. The stick should still trim to the new position though.

 

That's right! I've read many times that I have to press trim then move cyclic and then release trim. But maybe this is due to a limitation on not FF joysticks as I don't see many sense in doing this.

 

What trimmer does is set a new center on the current cyclic position and eliminate forces. So I think is more naturar to set desired attitude and when reaching a stable helicopter click and release trim to keep this without any pressure.

 

I will try to change centering force and diferent FFB settings to see the effects on the trim system and come back with the results.

[Dr_Watson]

I have had some strange control problems too. Sometimes things work in the instant action, then in a training mission they don't. What I found was there is a option in the gameplay that says something about "use these settings in all missions" and now everything is fine. Just a shot in the dark.

[Dr_Watson]

Trimming reset problems

 

So I have pretty much mastered the slow speeds and hovers of the chopper. I can manually hover on the spot, fly sideways, backwards, land on various buildings etc with no problems. When I start to fly faster, around 100kts + then I always seem to be having to use a fair amount of right rudder to keep the bubble centered otherwise I'm skidding.

 

I know how to use the trim reset (I think!) and find it second nature now, but what I noticed is, becuase I use a lot of rudder to keep the nose straight, when I reset the trim ( normally to reset the amount of movemnet require for pitch), it also resets the foot pedals for rudder. That means if you have a fair amount of rudder in the hold it straight and you quickly reset the trim as you increase speed, then when you recentre the joystick and bring the nose up to level flight, when you start to centre the rudder, your nose swings the wrong way. You then have to try and look at the pedals and make then centred then hit trim quickly to have then centred without any input on the joystick.....

 

does that make any sense??? Sounds like I'm gibbering away!

 

I'm using a CH pro throttle mini joystick x-axis for rudder.

[masonator]

Nope...sounds about right. I have to use a fair amount of right rudder in flight, and the faster the flight, the more right rudder.

 

I was trying to do the same as you...reset the trim with the reset button, but I found the same thing as you...wild action as soon as I hit the button. So what I do now is when I am about to transition slow speed, I simply apply left rudder until the rudder is centered, and then manually use the trimmer to slow down. Long story short, I don't use the rest trim button until I'm on the tarmac rubber side down.

 

Oh, and until you get the hang of it, use control-enter to give you a visualisation of where your control mechanisms are.

 

-Mase