[POLL] Which versions of Phantoms would the community be interested in after the F-4E?

[G.J.S]

5 hours ago, Lace said:

 

Complete with standard issue RAFG overcast and drizzle please.

One mile viz as a minimum? Half a mile to the left, half a mile to the right, Press-on! 

[Baco]

Its a cold war plane why have the latest and baddest.. give use the essence of the plane:  B/C or J tops, It gives us the possibility of flying different air frames with different systems and capabilities..

If you want the latest for PVP get a hornet for Christ sake.

Why get a Phantom that can do the same thing as a hornet or eagle?

 

 

[JayTSX]

9 hours ago, Baco said:

Why get a Phantom that can do the same thing as a hornet or eagle?

For my part: because it just feels better. Same with the Tomcat just better feel than the more modern modules no fly by wire means more control, more caution, more feel and more satisfaction when you actually pull something off. Hornet is like pull the stick and it'll safely do it given it's within the avionics limits. This doesn't even stop if you turn all limiters off. So a Phantom gives me a better approach to many things that I could do in the Hornet but won't. Sead for example: currently I'm running a mix of guided and unguided bombs on the Cat just to avoid the often klunky menus of the Hornet with way to much customization. Yes it's realistic-ish but so is the Cat and so will the Phantom be.

Tldr: The Phantom can do similar things as more modern platforms but with more style and sometimes even simpler than her counterparts.

Also it's faster. =D

[Baco]

6 hours ago, JayTSX said:

For my part: because it just feels better. Same with the Tomcat just better feel than the more modern modules no fly by wire means more control, more caution, more feel and more satisfaction when you actually pull something off. Hornet is like pull the stick and it'll safely do it given it's within the avionics limits. This doesn't even stop if you turn all limiters off. So a Phantom gives me a better approach to many things that I could do in the Hornet but won't. Sead for example: currently I'm running a mix of guided and unguided bombs on the Cat just to avoid the often klunky menus of the Hornet with way to much customization. Yes it's realistic-ish but so is the Cat and so will the Phantom be.

Tldr: The Phantom can do similar things as more modern platforms but with more style and sometimes even simpler than her counterparts.

Also it's faster. =D

ok, i get it.

Me, i prefer the old ways, the hard way LOL... and it frustrates me to have a "cold war plane" that is not a "cold war asset".

I am eagerly waiting for the 95-GR Cat for instance... but i might get stuck with a 135 early ...

[JayTSX]

I understand you, but for most people this will be a better version since you can fly along your friends in Hornets, Cats and even Vipers. It's a matter of patience for the rest of us since HB will continue to work on their modules.

[Top Jockey]

On 8/23/2022 at 2:12 PM, Lace said:

I voted British FGR for a number of reasons.  Firstly, I am British.  Secondly, the UK is hugely underrepresented in terms of 'modern' aircraft.  Hawk - dead, Eurofighter - German version, Harrier - American version, Gazelle - French version.  Spitfire & Mossie - WWII.  I would love to see an accurate UK version of any aircraft depicted in DCS, so until the Tornado GR1 is announced, I'm pinning my hopes on this.

 

Complete with standard issue RAFG overcast and drizzle please.

 

Fully agree.

For me it would be the F-4K Phantom FG.1

[LanceCriminal86]

1 hour ago, Baco said:

ok, i get it.

Me, i prefer the old ways, the hard way LOL... and it frustrates me to have a "cold war plane" that is not a "cold war asset".

I am eagerly waiting for the 95-GR Cat for instance... but i might get stuck with a 135 early ...

I think the problem we still face is needing the contemporary opponents and assets. As much as you want a B/C or D, we wouldn't really have a good environment for a more pure 60s/Vietnam Cold War. OTOH, the E and J/S covers the heavier parts of the Cold War from the late 60s through to even the early 90s. By the early 70s the Bs were being phased out for the Js, Ns, and mainly F-14s, while the C/Ds started going to rear line Reserve or Guard squadrons as the Es took over for the Tactical Fighter role. And even there they were overshadowed as the F-15A was coming in to dominate the air superiority role.

I totally see the argument though for representing the B/C/D when they were the premier fighter for the AF and Navy, as well as the Marines. They deserve to get some representation for when they were the top of the food chain, I just think without the right "Red Air", either player or AI, it'd be an empty experience. Kind of the same with trying to represent late 70s-80s F-14A action without some older MiG-23s and Soviet bombers that better match the era. When the MiG-17 is completed that's going to really help, maybe even if an older MiG-21 could be done, or an earlier MiG-19. But we'd still need a decent 105 to escort and other VN era assets for the Air Force. Older KC-135s for example, earlier C-130s, C-123s or C-141s, B-47s, B-66/A-3, etc.

 

36 minutes ago, JayTSX said:

I understand you, but for most people this will be a better version since you can fly along your friends in Hornets, Cats and even Vipers. It's a matter of patience for the rest of us since HB will continue to work on their modules.

I think the point is, many would rather fly in an era before the Hornets and Vipers, FBW, MFDs, and all that noise. 

[Baco]

Atcually we do have opposition, what red asset we have are more suited for early cold war than modern scenarios.

besides 60s and 70s for the red side was pretty rudimentary: mig 17, 19 and 21. we have all three, not exact versions but still very close. Yes i woudl kill for an SU 15, Su 17, maybe a il-28, Yak 28 or any of teh obscure small tactical bombers...

But a 90s Tomcat is not close, and a 90s Phantom is not close either.

[Mig Fulcrum]

2 ore fa, Baco ha scritto:

Atcually we do have opposition, what red asset we have are more suited for early cold war than modern scenarios.

besides 60s and 70s for the red side was pretty rudimentary: mig 17, 19 and 21. we have all three, not exact versions but still very close. Yes i woudl kill for an SU 15, Su 17, maybe a il-28, Yak 28 or any of teh obscure small tactical bombers...

But a 90s Tomcat is not close, and a 90s Phantom is not close either.

If we are talking about F-4S it's not a '90s machine, it's a late '70s / early '80s. Pretty different.

[sparrow88]

On 8/23/2022 at 11:32 PM, Baco said:

Why get a Phantom that can do the same thing as a hornet or eagle?

 

For me its simple - my squadron buddies will want to fly Hornets and Vipers, so the newest possible versions of an old jet will allow me to fly with them without huge capability gap, but still without fly by wire, with steam gauges etc.

[Dragon1-1]

Except not with steam gauges, an AMRAAM-capable Phantom gets MFDs just like everyone else.

[JayTSX]

Wasn't amraam discussed in another thread? And also rejected by Heatblur?

So no mfd and no spamraam just good old sparrows, sidewinder and steam gauges

[Yannick Pancake]

3 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Except not with steam gauges, an AMRAAM-capable Phantom gets MFDs just like everyone else.

Well, thats not 100% true... The F-4F KWS/ICE was able to fire amraam and didn't had any MFDs to my knowledge. only the original radar screen repeater in the front pit (sorry I don't know the exact term) and the radar screen in the back pit. I don't know if this was updated when they got the APG 65 but the didn't get any fancy MFD stuff like the Peace Ikarus or Terminator ones

 

[Dragon1-1]

If that was true, it would have had to be a very degraded, hacked together implementation, because AMRAAM has many functions that older missiles didn't have. Unless they did something really weird with the back seat controls, APG-65 would also require something like an MFD, even if the only thing it showed was the radar.

Either way, it doesn't matter since HB is not making a version that can use the AMRAAM. You can still fly on modern servers, just as a pure bomber.

[Yannick Pancake]

You can just google for F-4F ICE or KWS (German for ICE) Cockpit. And yes im sure about the front pit. There aren't any MFD things. And for the back seat, i've never seen anything MFD like thing there, but they might integrated an extra panel with just switches. 

In general the ICE was more an interim solution until the EF was ready, and heaters only where a little outdated in the 90's, since our Phantoms were unable to carry sparrows

[Baco]

5 hours ago, sparrow88 said:

For me its simple - my squadron buddies will want to fly Hornets and Vipers, so the newest possible versions of an old jet will allow me to fly with them without huge capability gap, but still without fly by wire, with steam gauges etc.

Must admit, that´s a sound argument.  I wish they would drop the specificity in DCS and let as have trans era modules,  Having late blocks or models BUT being able to carry old weaponry like AIM 9B or bullpups to be able to represent earlier birds of the same make. maybe adding or removing asmll exteriors detaile slike the F1 does now on different modesl that are skin dependant.

[Bremspropeller]

5 hours ago, sparrow88 said:

For me its simple - my squadron buddies will want to fly Hornets and Vipers, so the newest possible versions of an old jet will allow me to fly with them without huge capability gap, but still without fly by wire, with steam gauges etc.

Or maybe convert them to steampunk and have them drop their fancy TV screens. There's so much fun and excitement in learning something new. Like doing a road-recce at night without NVGs or a fancy god-pod.

[Alpha]

On 8/27/2022 at 2:56 PM, Dragon1-1 said:

If that was true, it would have had to be a very degraded, hacked together implementation, because AMRAAM has many functions that older missiles didn't have. Unless they did something really weird with the back seat controls, APG-65 would also require something like an MFD, even if the only thing it showed was the radar.

Either way, it doesn't matter since HB is not making a version that can use the AMRAAM. You can still fly on modern servers, just as a pure bomber.

The upgraded F-4F worked just fine without any MFDs. The WSO´s Screen was used to show all the required Data and he used the HCU to select various Items on that screen. As mentioned before the Pilot just had the Repeater for what the WSO currently saw. There were certain changes "below the hood" but a MFD is not required. Actually if HB just put the Hornet´s Radar into the F-4 we´d be pretty close to an F-4F as flown in the German Air Force.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Alpha

[DmitriKozlowsky]

F-4G Wild Weasel. It as developed from F-4E. Then British RN FAA F-4K

[Elf1606688794]

I'd like to see the G model, niche yes, but it was modified specifically for SEAD missions, one of very few aircraft types to be modded specifically for SEAD missions. It's a great Vietnam/Cold War aircraft.

Although I think the Navy guys should get a B or J first.

[Dragon1-1]

Some of the gear on the G model is still classified, so I don't think we could get it.

[LanceCriminal86]

The F-4G is becoming the new F-14D

[F-2]

L_M at secret projects posted this from the F-4EJ

 

[303_Kermit]

Why there's no "C" ? Also multiple choices poll would be more adequate. I would vote for B,C,D,E,J,G

Do you know that F-4E (Vietnam war type) wasn't able to reach Ma=2 ? Was slower than MiG-21 just like British variants... most powerful and slowest Phantoms

Edited September 18, 2022 by 303_Kermit

[Quid]

13 hours ago, 303_Kermit said:

Why there's no "C" ? Also multiple choices poll would be more adequate. I would vote for B,C,D,E,J,G

Do you know that F-4E (Vietnam war type) wasn't able to reach Ma=2 ? Was slower than MiG-21 just like British variants... most powerful and slowest Phantoms

 

According to its TO from 1969 (well within the Vietnam War era), the F-4E could absolutely get faster than Mach 2, to include with 4x AIM-7s, 4x AIM-7 and 4x AIM-4D, 4x AIM-7 and a centerline tank, or a single B28 nuclear bomb on board at 35,000 ft - 45,000 ft.  Looking at the slatted version, it's slower, but it can still exceed Mach 2 with 4x AIM-7.