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DCS: F-14 Development Update - AIM-54 Phoenix Improvements & Overhaul - Guided Discussion


Cobra847

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Please continue discussing the AIM-54 in this thread, as we have closed the old thread. For reference you can still find it here:
 


Thank you all for your very kind and numerous contributions thus far!


Edited by IronMike
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Good update!!

 

  • Both motors have the same total impulse now. The MK60 has a slight advantage during motor burn time, while the MK47 has an advantage in burn time. With increasing altitude the difference becomes smaller. 

typo?

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2 minutes ago, opps said:

Good update!!

 

  • Both motors have the same total impulse now. The MK60 has a slight advantage during motor burn time, while the MK47 has an advantage in burn time. With increasing altitude the difference becomes smaller. 

typo?

Nope. It means: due to its higher thrust, the mk60 has a slight advantage while the motor is burning, while the mk47 has an advantage in the motor burning longer. Hope that clarifies it.

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5 minutes ago, IronMike said:

Nope. It means: due to its higher thrust, the mk60 has a slight advantage while the motor is burning, while the mk47 has an advantage in the motor burning longer. Hope that clarifies it.

Now it's very clear. Thanks!

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8 minutes ago, opps said:

Good update!!

 

  • Both motors have the same total impulse now. The MK60 has a slight advantage during motor burn time, while the MK47 has an advantage in burn time. With increasing altitude the difference becomes smaller. 

typo?

 

"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long."

Recommendation after a month of shooting this in test is to experiment with launch altitude and speeds. They're both capable of similar reach and endgame Mach (ie, they're both very good at reaching the a target with roughly Mach 2 or thereabouts on them to maneuver) on long range (50-60+ mile targets), but the speed at which they'll reach out, and the altitudes they'll attain while doing so, are slightly different.   This can slightly alter your approach to using them on a situational basis. 

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Looks to be a great update. "Fixed an issue with the AWG-9 track logic to avoid tracks being thrown by aircraft launching air to air missiles." - This would explain a lot of lost tracks in TWS if the AWG-9 is getting confused by tracking munitions 😕


Edited by Sideburns
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47 minutes ago, Cobra847 said:

Thank you!

37 minutes ago, IronMike said:

Thank you all for your very kind and numerous contributions thus far!

No, thank YOU for your passion in working on and improving the module continuously for years. Seriously! Thank you guys!

Can't wait to strap on the Rhino and take it for a ride. And the Tadpole.

 

 

 

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Quick question on this. 

"One remaining small limitation is that in STT, the missile will erroneously go active on your target (it should remain semi-active all the way to target). This is unfortunately a limitation of the API at this time. We endeavour to model this behaviour properly in the future. 

Yet further down it says

AIM-54C should go active by default (even when losing lock from STT).

 

Does that mean when launched in PDSTT it should only go active if track is lost but does either way at the moment? 

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4 minutes ago, Comstedt86 said:

Does that mean when launched in PDSTT it should only go active if track is lost but does either way at the moment? 

Correct. This is unfortunately a limitation currently in DCS.

4 minutes ago, StandingCow said:

What's the effective range of the A and B missiles now?  I know it depends a lot on altitude, speed, etc but vs an aim120c how much extra range do you think we will get out of each missile now?

It is not far at all from what it used to be. You can still make a 120nm shot on a bomber easily. You can still bag fighters from 40-60, or further depending on their SA. The MK60 ofc will now be more or less in line with the mk47. Or rather: at long range a bit less effective, although the overall difference is minute, while a bit more effective, depending on the situation, during motor burn time. This applies mostly for close range higher up. Down low, once the motor is out, is over pretty fast for either of them.


Edited by IronMike
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7 minutes ago, Fawx said:

Looking forward to these! Your attention to detail is commendable. Makes me eagerly anticipate your future modules.

When is this patch live?

Thank you!

The patch is slated for today, or latest tomorrow.

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12 minutes ago, Comstedt86 said:

Does that mean when launched in PDSTT it should only go active if track is lost but does either way at the moment?

I think it does, yes. They way I read it: the missile should remain semi-active if the launch aircraft can keep the radar on the target, but if you have to turn away/defensive for whatever reason, it will trigger a "go active"-command (similar to how the AIM-120 works now).

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So...what about the Phoenixes doing loopy-loops while tracking targets,Loft completely vertical ('90) killing all of its speed and even Tracking targets through terrain even so much so as to curve around mountains? Its basically become a Meme at this point. and Most of these are even in the Discord 'gif' section. 

Watching them in Tac-view is even more depressing cause they're so inconsistent do wonky things Such as them going to the moon or watch them cycle targets that are over 80km away as they are floating in the air "Dead" 

 

So thats a big ol' "Dont Care" lol


Edited by Soulres
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1 hour ago, Cobra847 said:

One remaining small limitation is that in STT, the missile will erroneously go active on your target (it should remain semi-active all the way to target). This is unfortunately a limitation of the API at this time. We endeavour to model this behaviour properly in the future.

Is the limitation only present for the C model? Just curious about the particulars of that 

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Very nice thank you very much!

I just have some question that I probably miss through time.

When you say the A has no internal guide it means it have no radar? it never goes active? it is basically a Fox-1 that can be used in TWS.

And about the error of the C, it means that once I shoot in STT it is pointless to maintain lock because it is active? Even if it is beyond its internal radar range? Or it become pointless to shoot C in STT?  Or is it just a minor effect? Just curious to understand what the target RWR will display.

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The 54A lacks a good INS, so if the track gets trashed and not recovered, the missile is lost as it doesn't get the "active" call from the radar, whereas the C can do so independently.  TWS or STT lock lost, it'll make an intercept against last known target postion and relative movement.

Missiles should always be supported as long as you can support them, with the intent being they go active themselves based on target range/AWG-9 activation signal.  Dropping it and failing to recover early loses an A outright, whereas the lost update information has the potential to increase miss distance as the C flies out. If the target of your C doesn't continue into the relative area of airspace it *thinks* its headed when the track or lock is dropped, it doesn't matter if the missile went active or not if it was too far away to see the target to begin with.  


Edited by lunaticfringe
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21 minutes ago, lunaticfringe said:

Only Cs can go active on a lost STT lock to begin with.  But because the way the sim works currently, the C has to go active at some point to have that capability. 

 

Ah I see. I misunderstood what it was about. That makes sense thanks! 

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28 minutes ago, Mig Fulcrum said:

And about the error of the C, it means that once I shoot in STT it is pointless to maintain lock because it is active? Even if it is beyond its internal radar range? Or it become pointless to shoot C in STT?  Or is it just a minor effect? Just curious to understand what the target RWR will display.

For sake of clarity (and Бойовий Сокіл has the gist of it): 

54C in RL, in the event of a lost STT lock, would independently go active, and remain SARH all the way to the target if the lock was held. 

In DCS, to have the ability for the missile to go active in the event of a lost lock, the missile has to go active at some point in its flyout.  So the C does this at the appropriate time.  

The flipside of this, and why you want to take your STT shots when appropriate, is the fact that STT isn't susceptible to all of the issues TWS has for maintaining a track.  So you get all of the reliability of a STT shot, with the added bonus of the active fallback. 


Edited by lunaticfringe
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