Next Gen VR Headsets.

[lax22]

Any guesses how the upcoming Pimax Crystal will compare to the Aero regarding clarity and fov?

[DavidE]

Seems like all the technological changes are coming into alignment around about the same time, hoping that in the next 6 months or so I can get a VR rig that delivers good / acceptable performance with something like the pimax crystal (or even G2) and it will be the last rig I will need for a very long time, especially if the software improves as well. Retired now and don't have the cash to throw continually at this hobby.

[Supmua]

4 hours ago, lax22 said:

Any guesses how the upcoming Pimax Crystal will compare to the Aero regarding clarity and fov?

Should be very similar in clarity, but the Pimax will have better FOV and extra add-ons you can buy.  SteamVR tracking needs additional faceplate attachment ($200) and there will also be a pass through camera module. The capabilities sounds very good on paper but where is the demo unit though.  If you want SteamVR tracking then it’ll be $2100 for this headset making this pretty close to the 12K ($2400) which is a much better headset on paper anyway.  
The big question is can Pimax really execute all this, and why launch two products so close together one quarter apart. 

[Morat]

I honestly can't imagine running any more pixels than the G2 until

1. Multithread - CPU frame time is right on the squeaky limit already
2. Vulkan - because once CPU frame time comes down,the pressure goes back on the GPU and DX11 is.... ancient and predates VR.
2. Something with similar rasterisation scores to the 4090 arrives for ~£750

In other words, I don't see my G2 as the limitation of my VR experience right now.

[Johnny Dioxin]

My next headset will be the Pico Neo 4

Seems like it has very clear graphics in the cockpit, though it may struggle a little currently with wireless performance, this is likely to improve if the maker is to be believed (and I don't see why not). I'm quite looking forward to having a try with it myself. Someone on another flight sim forum said he thinks it's better than his G2. Of course all G2 owners behaved like he'd insulted them, but he has both and they haven't, so...

In any case, it will hopefully allow me break free of Meta.

 

edit: Won't get me to drop my Index, though

Edited October 20, 2022 by Johnny Dioxin

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

If you take a look at the video of comparison between G2 and Pico 4 with MSFS, you may wish to reconsider...

Edited October 20, 2022 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[dburne]

22 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

If you take a look at the video of comparison between G2 and Pico 4 with MSFS, you may wish to reconsider...

 

 

Really at this time not enough Pico 4's out in the wild with reports from regular users just yet.

Reverb G2 with MSFS 2020 going to be a hard combo to unseat for sure.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Have a look please, it is over Pico 4's thread.

In short,

Wired, the current software is max at 1600 pixels high and the USB connection cannot provide sufficient speed to decompress the signal

Wireless, it is no where near AirLink, and there will be stuttering even if you have a very decent WiFi setup.

Disclaimer, I don't have either HMD.

[Hartsblade]

Here us a decent video review of the Pico 4 and how it stacks up. There is a bookmark in the description for his impressions of the Pico 4 and PC games if you don't want to watch it all.

 

[Bearskin]

I have had my Pico 4 since late Tuesday night. I tried with the Pico streaming software and the Steam Pico link but it would not recognise my headset, so I downloaded Virtual Desktop. I am not into all the ins and outs of charts and graphs so this is just how my eyes see it through VD wireless with a VDSL combo Wi-Fi 5. 

DCS looks absolutely stunning. it's like going from VHS to Blu-ray, the FOV doesn't seem much different to the Rift, but the sweet spot is 80+ percent of the lens, same DCS settings as my rift I am getting 36 FPS and 72 over water, with no stutters that is with 72 FPS set in VD. If I set it to 90 FPS in VD then I only get 30 FPS courtesy of my RTX 2080. Tested both the Hog and Blackshark, Steam VR set to 100%, and 1.3 set in DCS.

Il2, 90 FPS in VD and again the clarity is amazing, no stutters, so the video I saw referred to above in the Pico 4 thread which made me cancel my pre order (before I pre ordered it again the next day) IMO doesn't do the Pico 4 justice, but then again, I don't do commercial flying.

I just tried Elite Dangerous and the rocks at the extraction sites have never been as crisp or clear, and the left panel to choose where you are going, every word is sharp, there is frame lagg in ED, but I am still using the same settings with everything cranked up which I used to try and get my Rift sharper. 

I tried ACC briefly and that too was clearer with no stutters, but there was a lot of ghosting, like 5 taillights as the car in front disappeared round the corner, again same settings as I used for the rift, so I have a bit of playing around to do with the GFX settings. I have a USB link cable coming in a few hours, so see how I go with it. I only play PCVR so I can't comment on the standalone part, but up to press I am over the moon with the Pico 4 clarity compared to my Rift.

The only thing I dislike about the Pico is I have to use Steam VR for everything, Steam VR is sh**.

 

[Morat]

2 hours ago, Johnny Dioxin said:

My next headset will be the Pico Neo 4

Seems like it has very clear graphics in the cockpit, though it may struggle a little currently with wireless performance, this is likely to improve if the maker is to be believed (and I don't see why not). I'm quite looking forward to having a try with it myself. Someone on another flight sim forum said he thinks it's better than his G2. Of course all G2 owners behaved like he'd insulted them, but he has both and they haven't, so...

In any case, it will hopefully allow me break free of Meta.

 

edit: Won't get me to drop my Index, though

 

Going from an Index to a G2 would be a significant upgrade in clarity. Granted the FoV is smaller but that just exacerbates the difference in resolution.

[Mr_sukebe]

Just initiated a return on my Pico 4.

Thoughts:

 - Not as comfortable as my current Rift S.  I can't comment on the G2, as I've never used one.  Unfortunately, we never get sales on G2s in the UK, which is why I don't already have one

 - Like the pancake lenses, which result in a bigger sweetspot and a wider FOV

 - Audio is...pants.  Like the Rift S, it's built into the arms.  That doesn't really bother me as I've always used a pair of clipon headphones that work fine

 - Doesn't appear to support OpenXR.  I certainly couldn't get it working.  Their website does suggest that it should

 - As above, with Virtual Desktop, the visuals are very nice and better than my Rift S.  However, I was suffering just too many lag spikes, e.g. due to someone else in the house using the internet.  Maybe it's possible to resolve using the planned USB wifi 6 dongle, but here in the UK, we have a 2 week return period and I just don't want to wait and see  

 - Pico also provide a software "streaming assistant", which allows connection via either wifi or USBC cable.  I bought a new USB3.1 compliant cable to use the headset with.  With either option, the visuals were way adrift from the Virtual Desktop option.  On a positive note, using the USBC cable gave a good frame rate and a VERY stable connection, with very few latency stutters

 - Within Virtual Desktop, there is the option to change the bitrate, but there's a maximum of 150Mbps.  Both Wifi5 and USB3.1gen2 easily provide more bandwidth than that.  I do wonder if the Pico Streaming assistant has an even lower bitrate cap, which could explain the poor visuals.  From chatting on another forum, it was suggested that the bitrate limit might be because of the capability of the XR2 processor within the Pico to decode the video signal.  If that's true, that doesn't bode well.

- I did have a look at the games available for use "standalone" with Pico 4.  Came away rather unimpressed.  I'm just the wrong target market for that

 

Personally, I'm going to sit and wait until we have:

 - HP finally reducing the price on the G2 in the UK to match the US sale price, or

 - A new PCVR headset arrives with an appropriate DV port, preferably with pancake lenses from the Pico 4

 

 

 

[Bearskin]

Mr_sukebe, did you manage to get Steam VR to recognise your headset using the Pico Streaming software, I have tried both wired and wireless and Steam doesn't want to recognise my headset. I have downloaded Pico link for my PC and also through Steam and it is still a no go.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Have you tried Virtual Desktop. From what I have heard, you may need this for PCVR, at least with wireless.

Do not count on Quest3, rumours gave it is no pancake lenses.

[tomcat_driver]

11 hours ago, Bearskin said:

Mr_sukebe, did you manage to get Steam VR to recognise your headset using the Pico Streaming software, I have tried both wired and wireless and Steam doesn't want to recognise my headset. I have downloaded Pico link for my PC and also through Steam and it is still a no go.

It does seem you're having something block the connection at network or transport level.

Do you have a dedicated Wifi6 router to create a network between your PC and the headset, or trying to use your residence's wifi network ? If the later, perhaps try enabling uPnP to check if you can get it through.

Edited October 21, 2022 by tomcat_driver

[Mr_sukebe]

11 hours ago, Bearskin said:

Mr_sukebe, did you manage to get Steam VR to recognise your headset using the Pico Streaming software, I have tried both wired and wireless and Steam doesn't want to recognise my headset. I have downloaded Pico link for my PC and also through Steam and it is still a no go.

As the Pico doesn’t appear to support OpenXR, you’re obliged to use SteamVR.  I had no issues once I’d followed the instructions on what to download.

For wired, you’re obliged to use the free Pico App “Streaming assistant”.  There’s an App on the device and another that you download onto your PC.

 

For wireless,  buy Virtual Desktop, which I found to be much better that the Pico App streaming assistant.  Somehow VD results in both lower latency and better visuals.  You’ll also need to download the free VD windows client App to use.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Mr_sukebe

[Supmua]

Megane X Hands On.  Expected release date this Dec.  I might bite.

 

[Supmua]

Panasonic is also releasing some weird add-ons to their VR lineup.  Full body tracking, Voice suppression module, Temperature hot/cold VR vest.

https://na.panasonic.com/explore/immersive/vr-metaverse#meganex

[Habu_69]

I think this is the headset I have been waiting for. Dec 2022 is good news. Hope to see more reviews soon.

[Supmua]

17 minutes ago, Habu_69 said:

I think this is the headset I have been waiting for. Dec 2022 is good news. Hope to see more reviews soon.

It’s got all the right specs for PCVR except maybe FOV, and it’s backed by an electronics giant Panasonic.  It’s also made in Japan, so the build quality should be quite good.

[Dentedend10]

I don’t see it would track the eyes, will it? I would want a headset with foveated rendering for the future, even if DCS doesn’t currently support it

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, Dentedend10 said:

I don’t see it would track the eyes, will it? I would want a headset with foveated rendering for the future, even if DCS doesn’t currently support it

It doesn't hence the tiny size.  Dynamic foveated rendering tech is sort of meh right now, I have it on my Vajro Aero and the performance increase is subtle because it also creates extra workload (from eye tracking calculations, etc.) resulting in minimal performance gain (Facebook/Meta's research has also come to this conclusion).  Fixed foveated on the other hand can save more GPU frametime, but imaging quality outside the center area is not great when you glance around.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Supmua

[Dentedend10]

5 hours ago, Supmua said:

It doesn't hence the tiny size.  Dynamic foveated rendering tech is sort of meh right now, I have it on my Vajro Aero and the performance increase is subtle because it also creates extra workload (from eye tracking calculations, etc.) resulting in minimal performance gain (Facebook/Meta's research has also come to this conclusion).  Fixed foveated on the other hand can save more GPU frametime, but imaging quality outside the center area is not great when you glance around.

 

Interesting! Which headset are you using mostly? I have the G2 and was hoping the Varjo Aero would provide significant increase in quality of image (I'm not necessarily looking for performance boost) due to the foveated rendering, at least in the future when software implementation also occurs. Currently I'm holding off until I see a headset with foveated rendering, without base stations, and with controllers, that's also focused on gaming rather than business use

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, Dentedend10 said:

Interesting! Which headset are you using mostly? I have the G2 and was hoping the Varjo Aero would provide significant increase in quality of image (I'm not necessarily looking for performance boost) due to the foveated rendering, at least in the future when software implementation also occurs. Currently I'm holding off until I see a headset with foveated rendering, without base stations, and with controllers, that's also focused on gaming rather than business use

Of all the headsets I’ve had, the Aero by far.  It’s the only headset that’s good enough to be used in place of a regular monitor because of high resolution and edge to edge clarity.  However it’s got its own issues such as chromatic aberration (color fringes), narrow vertical FOV, narrow face gasket, missing features such as motion smoothing, mini LED local area dimming, and built in on/off switch.  My ideal VR headset though would be something akin to the Vive Pro 2 with OLED panels and aspheric lens or anything but fresnel lens.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Supmua

[Morat]

 

MeganeX

 

https://www.caesarvr.com/metaverse-zone/panasonic-launches-meganex-lightweight-steamvr-headset

 

 

It's interesting! OLED and pancake lenses will be a nice combo for sure. Not a day 1 purchase for me but I'll be looking at reviews for sure. If it's 2560x2560 per eye then that's a decent lift over the G2 but I can't imagine many systems will push DCS through it at 120Hz in the next couple of years!

Let's hope it ships to the UK and doesn't cost as much as an Aero.