Clarification on future of WW2 Asset Pack

[Silver_Dragon]

5 minutes ago, [16AGR] CptTrips said:

 

It's going to be a question when the Corsair comes out.  

People are going to wonder how much WWII is going to be supported before plopping down another $70.

Remember not only has building the F4-1U Corsair by M3 3rd Party, ED has making F6F Hellcat and Marianas WW2.

[Slippa]

Something would be nice.

I'm on about my ninth life now after many near death experiences. I'm running three stents in a cluttered arterial system, my RAM is rapidly becoming just RSTML (Random Short-Term Memory Loss ) and the last time I spoke to my Doctor he had a go at me for not calling an ambo the last time I had a 'nasty bit of angina'. He reckons I'd in fact had another heart attack and much like Brian (of Life of Brian fame) I was a 'very naughty boy'. I'm trying not to make a habit of it but I do like a good bacon sarnie and still smoke like an idiot.

At this rate, I think I'll be lucky to see much in the way of any WWII updates or additions but I hope everyone enjoys what comes if and when it ever does.

Maybe I'm having one of those moments of pessimism? Maybe we'll all be suprised in say a fortnight™ or so with a Wildcat, Zero, Typhoon a 111, 110s, Ju87 and all the Fokkers you could shake a stick at. Corsair would be encouraging. Hellcat, anything.

Most eagerly awaited thing for me at the moment is the Lancaster Scooby and the team are working on.

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

5 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Remember not only has building the F4-1U Corsair by M3 3rd Party, ED has making F6F Hellcat and Marianas WW2.

 

Wished they had fleshed out ETO more before diverting off the PTO.

Better to complete one task before starting another one to be partially implemented.

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by [16AGR] CptTrips

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

25 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Remember not only has building the F4-1U Corsair by M3 3rd Party, ED has making F6F Hellcat and Marianas WW2.

 

Makes me wonder if there is going to be a PTO Asset Pack that you have to buy separately as well.

 

[Seaside]

1 hour ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Remember not only has building the F4-1U Corsair by M3 3rd Party, ED has making F6F Hellcat and Marianas WW2.

And they have to finish the Mosquito.

 

[NineLine]

We are not done with the ETO, and some things could possibly crossover as well. We will have more info when we are able to share. 

[Gunfreak]

"Let's say we get Marinas ww2 map and Corsair at the same time.

That will give us Corsair, Essex carrier, some Japanese ground troops and a few small islands and maybe an AI zero to shoot at. Not a lot to give you a "PTO experience" 

As far as we know we won't get any other naval related to PTO any time soon. Not American or Japanese. We don't know if we will get PTO American ground assets like marines. 

 

So best case scenario based on what we know, we will be able to land and take off on a carrier and bomb som ground units on ww2 Marinas.(and possibly dogfight a zero) and that's if we get ww2 Marinas before or at the same time as the Corsair. It is possible we'll have to bomb Japanese assets on modern Marianas or Normandy map for a long time with our Corsair.

[NineLine]

I remember the good old days when we used to have P-51D vs P-51D dogfights over the Caucasus. 

[Gunfreak]

43 minutes ago, NineLine said:

I remember the good old days when we used to have P-51D vs P-51D dogfights over the Caucasus. 

Well, if the PTO plans fall short, we can always get Reflected to make a 14 mission campaign about the Football War, using the South Atlantic maps and we can have Corsairs vs P51s. 

[wowbagger]

15 hours ago, [16AGR] CptTrips said:

...Better to complete one task before starting another one to be partially implemented.

 

 Sorry ... that just sounds so funny, here on the DCS forums. 

[Silver_Dragon]

16 hours ago, [16AGR] CptTrips said:

Wished they had fleshed out ETO more before diverting off the PTO.

Better to complete one task before starting another one to be partially implemented.

WTO has no dead, remember the F6F has a personal project by Nick Grey but he fly that aircraft on the Fighter Collection, and them has talked follow with Bob modules on WTO. About ETO, when ED build maps to the ETO, they start to add content to the assets pack with soviet and other. No plans yet by ED yet to add ETO aircrafts (continue coming by Octopus-G), and no plans to build separate PTO / ETO / MTO products to WW2 assets pack. Surely, other 3rd parties start to fill the gaps.

14 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

"Let's say we get Marinas ww2 map and Corsair at the same time.

That will give us Corsair, Essex carrier, some Japanese ground troops and a few small islands and maybe an AI zero to shoot at. Not a lot to give you a "PTO experience" 

As far as we know we won't get any other naval related to PTO any time soon. Not American or Japanese. We don't know if we will get PTO American ground assets like marines. 

 

So best case scenario based on what we know, we will be able to land and take off on a carrier and bomb som ground units on ww2 Marinas.(and possibly dogfight a zero) and that's if we get ww2 Marinas before or at the same time as the Corsair. It is possible we'll have to bomb Japanese assets on modern Marianas or Normandy map for a long time with our Corsair.

The same situation with "where are my Korea / Vietnam map / assets / modules"... has only a matter of time and the "drama" dont help here.

[Gunfreak]

13 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

WTO has no dead, remember the F6F has a personal project by Nick Grey but he fly that aircraft on the Fighter Collection, and them has talked follow with Bob modules on WTO. About ETO, when ED build maps to the ETO, they start to add content to the assets pack with soviet and other. No plans yet by ED yet to add ETO aircrafts (continue coming by Octopus-G), and no plans to build separate PTO / ETO / MTO products to WW2 assets pack. Surely, other 3rd parties start to fill the gaps.

The same situation with "where are my Korea / Vietnam map / assets / modules"... has only a matter of time and the "drama" dont help here.

Human lifetime isn't infinite,(games life time even less so)  the problem is exactly the time, a product should be completed within reasonable time, not always pushed back and never prioritised. Which is what is happening in DCS ww2, neither Korea og vietnam are actual projects of ED/DCS and not comparable.

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

Human lifetime isn't infinite,(games life time even less so)  the problem is exactly the time, a product should be completed within reasonable time, not always pushed back and never prioritised. Which is what is happening in DCS ww2, neither Korea og vietnam are actual projects of ED/DCS and not comparable.

It's one thing to have complete products in reasonable time, but remember that WW2 was never envisioned as a complete product, not even in the RRG KickStarter. We can philosophise about what WW2 should be, but without unlimited staff, money and resources, they will have to take things one step at a time. We've already seen that rushing things out has been to no avail (F-16C), so I'd rather wait patiently for them to bring me a half-baked product, for others to come in and make a fire out of the embers.

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

2 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

 but remember that WW2 was never envisioned as a complete product, not even in the RRG KickStarter. 

Which is something to consider. 

I would want to know if that is still the case when they ask me to buy the next $70 Corsair or F6F.

 

[Silver_Dragon]

13 minutes ago, [16AGR] CptTrips said:

Which is something to consider;

I would want to know if that is still the case when they ask me to buy the next $70 Corsair or F6F.

 

Sorry, but let's not cheat solitaire...
- WW2 Modules (without discount).

• P-51D 49.99$
• Fw-190D-9 $49.99
• Bf-109K-4 $49.99
• Spitfire LF $49.99
• Fw-190A-8 $49.99
• P-47D $49.99
• Mosquito FB 59.99$
• I-16 39.99$
• WW2 Assets Pack $29.99
• Normandy 2.0 $47.99
• Channel Map $49.99

No WWII aircraft is worth 70 - 80 dollars like an F-16 or a UH-64 and it is very likely that the F4-1U, F6-F or La-7 will maintain the same price range as the current modules, the only exception being the Mosquito, which is a larger aircraft.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Silver_Dragon

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

5 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Sorry, but let's not cheat solitaire...

 

 

Fine.  Allow me to rephrase.

 

 

Which is something to consider. 

I would want to know if that is still the case when they ask me to buy the next $50 Corsair or F6F.

(But I'll wager you a beer that the Corsair and F6F will be more than $50.)

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by [16AGR] CptTrips

[MAXsenna]

CptTrips" userid="131966"]  
Fine.  Allow me to rephrase.
 
 
Which is something to consider. 

I would want to know if that is still the case when they ask me to buy the next $50 Corsair or F6F.

(But I'll wager you a beer that the Corsair and F6F will be more than $50.)

 

 

I won't hold it!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, [16AGR] CptTrips said:

 

Fine.  Allow me to rephrase.

 

 

Which is something to consider. 

I would want to know if that is still the case when they ask me to buy the next $50 Corsair or F6F.

(But I'll wager you a beer that the Corsair and F6F will be more than $50.)

 

 

 

If we indeed do get Corsair, carrier, ground assets and AI zero with maybe more, then  I'm more than happy to pay the same as for the newest full fidelity jets. Mag3 might be slow, and just terrible at customer interaction and giving info, but i don't doubt the quality of their product. I'm far more sceptical the ED can create anything resembling a PTO experience in our life time. Not without drastic changes in their priorities. 

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

22 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

If we indeed do get Corsair, carrier, ground assets and AI zero with maybe more, then  I'm more than happy to pay the same as for the newest full fidelity jets. Mag3 might be slow, and just terrible at customer interaction and giving info, but i don't doubt the quality of their product. I'm far more sceptical the ED can create anything resembling a PTO experience in our life time. Not without drastic changes in their priorities. 

I'll keep an open mind.  

But if the supporting units are sparse and only promises that "someday"  you will get a lot more, then I'll wait a year or two and get the Corsair F6F on summer sale.

Since ETO is much further along, I still think it would have been better to flesh that out more and fold the WW2 Asset Pack into the purchase of WWII maps.

 

[Gunfreak]

Just now, [16AGR] CptTrips said:

I'll keep an open mind.  

But if the supporting units are sparse and only promises that "someday"  you will get a lot more, then I'll wait a year or two and get the Corsair F6F on summer sale.

Since ETO is much further along, I still think it would have been better to flesh that out more and fold the WW2 Asset Pack into the purchase of WWII maps.

 

Asset pack should come free with any ww2 modual(so plane or map) 

I agree, I'll buy the Corsair to support Mag3s work(even if i hound them for their lack of info) but i won't buy the F6F unless ED has done some serious PTO work. (Ship Assets, US marines, and at least news about a bigger PTO map, like Solomons or Philippines)

Don't need 2 PTO planes to fly over the Marinas map.

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

22 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Asset pack should come free with any ww2 modual(so plane or map) 

 

They'd be fools not to do that with the Corsair and F6F launch.

 

Folding the WWII asset pack into the base game would clearly signal that ED sees WWII as a first class citizen of their ecosystem and not just some side thing that they don't want to contaminate their base game with but will sorta pretend to support a little on the side as long as you pay extra.

 

ED really needs to give WWII some love for a while.  Wags himself admitted they are starting to run out of modern stuff that would be compelling yet feasible for security reasons.

WWII is still an largely untapped market for them.  There is a large cohort of dedicated WWII players out there that have not yet been lured into the DCS ecosystem.  Green fields.

There is plenty of documentation out there for WWII stuff and avoids all the security friction.  Airframes are fundamentally simpler (no complex computers or radar) and can be developed quicker.

Once those new WWII customers have been won over, who knows what else they might buy on a summer sale.

ED just needs to show they give a flip and will take WWII as seriously seriously as they do the other period genre.  

 

And it needs to be done with actions.  Talk is cheap.

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by [16AGR] CptTrips

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, [16AGR] CptTrips said:

 

They'd be fools not to do that with the Corsair and F6F launch.

 

Folding the WWII asset pack into the base game would clearly signal that ED sees WWII as a first class citizen of their ecosystem and not just some side thing that they don't want to contaminate their base game with but will sorta pretend to support a little on the side as long as you pay extra.

 

ED really needs to give WWII some love for a while.  Wags himself admitted they are starting to run out of modern stuff that would be compelling yet feasible for security reasons.

WWII is still an largely untapped market for them.  There is a large cohort of dedicated WWII players out there that have not yet been lured into the DCS ecosystem.  Green fields.

There is plenty of documentation out there for WWII stuff and avoids all the security friction.  Airframes are fundamentally simpler (no complex computers or radar) and can be developed quicker.

Once those new WWII customers have been won over, who knows what else they might buy on a summer sale.

ED just needs to show they give a flip and will take WWII as seriously seriously as they do the other period genre.  

 

And it needs to be done with actions.  Talk is cheap.

 

 

Classic Catch 22.

Dcs ww2 doesn't bring in the money, so it gets low priority/small team. So it's not as popular as it could be because nothing much is happening. And so it doesn't bring in the money and so gets low priority.

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

4 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Classic Catch 22.

Dcs ww2 doesn't bring in the money, so it gets low priority/small team. So it's not as popular as it could be because nothing much is happening. And so it doesn't bring in the money and so gets low priority.

 

Yes.

Modern platforms wouldn't make any money either if they put no effort into it.  

 

[NineLine]

4 hours ago, [16AGR] CptTrips said:

Folding the WWII asset pack into the base game would clearly signal that ED sees WWII as a first class citizen of their ecosystem and not just some side thing that they don't want to contaminate their base game with but will sorta pretend to support a little on the side as long as you pay extra.

I do not think this is a fair statement, giving away something that has costs associated with a product doesn't always help. I would love to see some sort of option to allow MP server play without it, but giving it away outright is not really an option. The costs associated with making highly detailed models these days is growing all the time, not to mention the time it takes to create them. 

We do care about the modelling and realism of our WWII modules, but we have chosen a different path of quality vs quantity. Things take time, but when they are done they are done the very best they can be. IMHO. 

Ideally, more 3rd Parties doing WWII would be the ultimate, but also realize while WWII aircraft do not have complex computer systems to model, they have their own challenges. 

[Rewis.C]

22 minutes ago, NineLine said:

I do not think this is a fair statement, giving away something that has costs associated with a product doesn't always help. I would love to see some sort of option to allow MP server play without it, but giving it away outright is not really an option. The costs associated with making highly detailed models these days is growing all the time, not to mention the time it takes to create them. 

We do care about the modelling and realism of our WWII modules, but we have chosen a different path of quality vs quantity. Things take time, but when they are done they are done the very best they can be. IMHO. 

Ideally, more 3rd Parties doing WWII would be the ultimate, but also realize while WWII aircraft do not have complex computer systems to model, they have their own challenges. 

I agree especially about the allowing MP without the assets like the super carrier where you can't use it but you can play in the server. I'm not sure how you'd pull it off without making the pack useless to buy for everyone but mission makers. It's definitely something to think about.