2.8 update has 20 % fps loss on pimax8kx and 15 fps loss on Varjo Aero (RTX 4090)

[jnr4817]

29 minutes ago, dburne said:

I actually tried something this morning that amazed me. I turned MSAA off in DCS. I enabled AA in Nvidia Control Panel and set it to "override the application". I improved my frame time by about 5ms just making this change, and it looks fantastic. 

As far as 4090 - naw going to hold off for now. Will probably do a new build around this time next year so will just wait till then. Not sure I would benefit that much with me still running a 9900k.

What’s nvidia drivers?

[corbu1]

vor 47 Minuten schrieb dburne:

I actually tried something this morning that amazed me. I turned MSAA off in DCS. I enabled AA in Nvidia Control Panel and set it to "override the application". I improved my frame time by about 5ms just making this change, and it looks fantastic. 

As far as 4090 - naw going to hold off for now. Will probably do a new build around this time next year so will just wait till then. Not sure I would benefit that much with me still running a 9900k.

Interesting, will give it a try…..

[dburne]

55 minutes ago, jnr4817 said:

What’s nvidia drivers?

I am going to assume you mean "which" Nvidia drivers.

I am running the latest 526.98

[slughead]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

I actually tried something this morning that amazed me. I turned MSAA off in DCS. I enabled AA in Nvidia Control Panel and set it to "override the application". I improved my frame time by about 5ms just making this change, and it looks fantastic. 

As far as 4090 - naw going to hold off for now. Will probably do a new build around this time next year so will just wait till then. Not sure I would benefit that much with me still running a 9900k.

More context surrounding your other settings is needed. For example, are you running any form of super sampling, e.g. NIS or FSR? Or running at a reduced resolution? If you are, I suspect you are seeing shimmering of roof tops with the sun reflecting off the top of them. In which case, you're unlikely to see much difference with MSAA off or on and AA on in NCP. The shimmering is just too strong with NIS or FSR on. For me, MSAA x 2 beats NCP AA hands down. I see a clear difference in hill profiles where they meet the sky and much reduced shimmer. With it off and with NCP AA on (no FSR or NIS) I find the shimmer intolerable.

[dburne]

42 minutes ago, slughead said:

More context surrounding your other settings is needed. For example, are you running any form of super sampling, e.g. NIS or FSR? Or running at a reduced resolution? If you are, I suspect you are seeing shimmering of roof tops with the sun reflecting off the top of them. In which case, you're unlikely to see much difference with MSAA off or on and AA on in NCP. The shimmering is just too strong with NIS or FSR on. For me, MSAA x 2 beats NCP AA hands down. I see a clear difference in hill profiles where they meet the sky and much reduced shimmer. With it off and with NCP AA on (no FSR or NIS) I find the shimmer intolerable.

 

No sorry, for me no more context is needed. I know the results I got along with frametime improvement and how everything looks , and for me I choose Nvidia AA over DCS MSAA. If anyone would like to give it a try just to see they can, or not - makes no difference to me.  Obviously for you it did not show improvement. 

Edit: And I do see a huge difference with MSAA off versus on with nothing set in Nvidia Control Panel. I could not handle MSAA off in that regard. So for me yeah, Nvidia AA beats MSAA in DCS hands down, great image and better performance.

Edited November 30, 2022 by dburne

[zildac]

I always thought the AA settings in nvidia control panel had zero effect on VR?

[dburne]

2 hours ago, zildac said:

I always thought the AA settings in nvidia control panel had zero effect on VR?

I honestly can't remember if I ever even thought of trying it. But yeah in my case it sure works - quite nicely.

And again I used the "override the application settings" rather than enhance obviously.

Edited December 1, 2022 by dburne

[Werewolf_fs]

hace 8 horas, zildac dijo:

I always thought the AA settings in nvidia control panel had zero effect on VR?

And you are correct, the AA from the NVCP does NOT work in VR and DCS, that's why they see an improvement, normal if you don't apply it!

[dureiken]

But with no MSAA at all it's a lot of shimmering, isn'it ?

[Nuggetz]

“And you are correct, the AA from the NVCP does NOTwork in VR and DCS, that's why they see an improvement, normal if you don't apply it!”

Not being an expert I tried MSAA off and AA on x2 plus override Application and found decent image results (albeit not perfect) with improved FPS indeed I had a solid 75 FPS at 75hz with my 8KX set to 3840 Normal FOV and most DCS settings at High or better in the PG Map. Therefore I really don’t understand the suggestion it doesn’t work?

Therefore I for one am grateful for the suggestion from dburne. As it is an easy adjustment to do I recommend people try it and see for yourselves  

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Nuggetz

[Pac-man_]

At this point I am willing to try a lot of things. So, thanks for the suggestion @dburne, I will give it a try.

The overall AA quality seems to have declined with 2.8, at least for me. I haven't played a lot since 2.8 dropped (mostly because of the performance loss), but over the last 2 days I had a little time on my hands. There seem to be more jagged edges than with 2.7. Both on cockpit elements like the UFC in the Hornet, but also on the tank nozzle of the M2000c or the models in external view.

[edmuss]

Turned off MSAAx2 and set NVCP override at 4xAA and DCS is a shimmery mess again with no antialiasing, gain a couple of ms for not having to antialias anything, even driving the resolution up to full doesn't result is a reduction of shimmer.

I'll stick with MSAAx2 and simply reduce the resolution to keep the frametimes low, the shimmers eliminated and the image nice and smooth

[Werewolf_fs]

hace 26 minutos, Nuggetz dijo:

“And you are correct, the AA from the NVCP does NOTwork in VR and DCS, that's why they see an improvement, normal if you don't apply it!”

Not being an expert I tried MSAA off and AA on x2 plus override Application and found decent image results (albeit not perfect) with improved FPS indeed I had a solid 75 FPS at 75hz with my 8KX set to 3840 Normal FOV and most DCS settings at High or better in the PG Map. Therefore I really don’t understand the suggestion it doesn’t work?

Therefore I for one am grateful for the suggestion from dburne. As it is an easy adjustment to do I recommend people try it and see for yourselves  

 

 

 

It's very simple, the NVCP options related to AA (x2/x4/x8) are not activated in VR fron this way, to have it ON you are applied from the corresponding application of the game or simulator itself. And I have verified it in Oculus, (CV1, Q2), WMR (G1, G2), Pimax 8K, HTC VIVE PRO and PRO 2 ect, ect, ect...

The quality may be acceptable for you, but I see clearly  the aliasing and it only eliminates it if I put the MSAA x2 or x4, also the SSAA does NOT work in VR either, since this type of correction cannot be applied. It's not that I say it, it's an empirical fact, if you want AA in DCS and VR I use MSAA, it's the ONLY way

Edited December 1, 2022 by Werewolf_fs

[dburne]

1 hour ago, edmuss said:

Turned off MSAAx2 and set NVCP override at 4xAA and DCS is a shimmery mess again with no antialiasing, gain a couple of ms for not having to antialias anything, even driving the resolution up to full doesn't result is a reduction of shimmer.

I'll stick with MSAAx2 and simply reduce the resolution to keep the frametimes low, the shimmers eliminated and the image nice and smooth

Wow that makes no sense to me, I do not understand why it has a big affect for me then. Can't explain it. Mine I have just set at 2x and it looks great and runs well.

 

1 hour ago, Nuggetz said:

Not being an expert I tried MSAA off and AA on x2 plus override Application and found decent image results (albeit not perfect) with improved FPS indeed I had a solid 75 FPS at 75hz with my 8KX set to 3840 Normal FOV and most DCS settings at High or better in the PG Map. Therefore I really don’t understand the suggestion it doesn’t work?

Therefore I for one am grateful for the suggestion from dburne. As it is an easy adjustment to do I recommend people try it and see for yourselves  

 

 

Glad it worked for someone else and they see it also. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by dburne

[Werewolf_fs]

Activating AA from NVCP has no effect on VR. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Werewolf_fs

[dburne]

1 minute ago, Werewolf_fs said:

Activating AA from NVCP has no effect on VR. Sorry...

 

Sorry you don't have the same result. Obviously I can't make it work for others, but if anyone else benefits from the info that is a good thing I reckon.

 

[dburne]

Don't know if this has anything to do with it or not, but was checking my settings:

In DCS I have MSAA disabled in the system tab. I also have checked full screen as well. 

In the VR Tab, I however still have MSAA mask enabled with mask size of 1. Then of course in Nvidia Control Panel I have 2x AA set to override any application.

 

[Supmua]

Without MSAA on, I find the shimmering to be distracting especially on maps such as Persian Gulf or Syria.  Of course this is subjective and people’s tolerance threshold are different. 

[dburne]

51 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Without MSAA on, I find the shimmering to be distracting especially on maps such as Persian Gulf or Syria.  Of course this is subjective and people’s tolerance threshold are different. 

Yeah I am with you on the shimmering, can't much stand that. I would take minor stuttering over shimmering.

[WipeUout]

22 hours ago, Werewolf_fs said:

Activating AA from NVCP has no effect on VR. 

Same result here, only DCS MSAA seems to work.  Even increasing resolution in SVR does not reduce shimmers as well as DCS MSAA.

[speed-of-heat]

i tried this again recently and there is no difference for me on the G2 using NVCP forcing MSAA and MSAA OFF in game.  Anisotropic filtering does work from NVCP, but there is no visual difference nor performance improvement one from the other.  I wonder if this is something about different about the way the Varjo Aero is working?

Edited December 2, 2022 by speed-of-heat

[Brainfreeze]

23 hours ago, dburne said:

Don't know if this has anything to do with it or not, but was checking my settings:

In DCS I have MSAA disabled in the system tab. I also have checked full screen as well. 

In the VR Tab, I however still have MSAA mask enabled with mask size of 1. Then of course in Nvidia Control Panel I have 2x AA set to override any application.

 

@dburne, to be sure...The AA nvidia setting u refer to is Antialiasing-mode then Antialiasing- Setting    right?  not sure what the MFAA is about 

FWIW I tried using F16 instant action cold and dark ... opens with a long grass field which test the AA nicely.   With Nvidia forced at 8x ... nothing obvious happening and lots of shimmering.  With Nvidia off and DCS at 8x ... no shimering at all anymore.    Different for u??

Edited December 2, 2022 by Brainfreeze

[Pac-man_]

I have tried it myself now and can confirm, it does not work. Deactivating MSAA in DCS and forcing it active in the Nvidia Control Panel leaves me with a worse image full of jagged edges. The shimmering is not as bad as it used to be without AA, but it's pretty clear to me that AA via Nvidia Control Panel does nothing in DCS VR.

I did however set Object Terrain Shadows from "Flat" to "Off". It pains me to do it, because the graphics feel fake without object shadows. But it got me a lot of the perfomance back that 2.8 took away. Maybe "Default" and "Flat" are now the same setting? 

[dburne]

28 minutes ago, Brainfreeze said:

dburne, to be sure...The AA nvidia setting u refer to is Antialiasing-mode then Antialiasing- Setting    right?  not sure what the MFAA is about 

That is correct.

Mode = Override any application settings.  Setting = 2X.

 

1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

i tried this again recently and there is no difference for me on the G2 using NVCP forcing MSAA and MSAA OFF in game.  Anisotropic filtering does work from NVCP, but there is no visual difference nor performance improvement one from the other.  I wonder if this is something about different about the way the Varjo Aero is working?

 

 

Could be I suppose anything is possible although I believe Supmua commented he did not see a difference either and he has an Aero. I was surprised  to see the results after trying it just for the heck of it but I am sure taking advantage of it and enjoying it for now.

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by dburne

[dburne]

41 minutes ago, Brainfreeze said:

@dburne, to be sure...The AA nvidia setting u refer to is Antialiasing-mode then Antialiasing- Setting    right?  not sure what the MFAA is about 

FWIW I tried using F16 instant action cold and dark ... opens with a long grass field which test the AA nicely.   With Nvidia forced at 8x ... nothing obvious happening and lots of shimmering.  With Nvidia off and DCS at 8x ... no shimering at all anymore.    Different for u??

 

 

I will try and have a look at that one later on this morning, have somewhere have to be first. I would not sweat it too much guys, I sure can not explain it and maybe I am losing my mind who knows lol. But I sure ain't changing it back as it is in a pretty good spot for me now.