DCS Newsletter discussion 4th November 2022 - Halloween Sale | DCS 2.8

[BIGNEWY]

DCS Newsletter discussion 4th November 2022 - Halloween Sale | DCS 2.8 

 

 

[ThorBrasil]

Thanks ED for the great work on 2.8. I have a question about the newsletter. Dynamic shadows not implemented yet? Thanks!

[BIGNEWY]

34 minutes ago, ThorBrasil said:

Thanks ED for the great work on 2.8. I have a question about the newsletter. Dynamic shadows not implemented yet? Thanks!

Thanks glad you are enjoying. If you mean the shadows and lighting at the airfields it is currently on the Persian Gulf terrain and will be applied to others in the the future. 

 

[ThorBrasil]

3 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Thanks glad you are enjoying. If you mean the shadows and lighting at the airfields it is currently on the Persian Gulf terrain and will be applied to others in the the future. 

 

What I didn't understand is if dynamic shadows were already implemented in version 2.8 in PG. Thank You!

[Hotdognz]

I would have to disagree on this news letter based on my group opinions and talks we have had whilst flying on Discord and in game this week, I was and we all were all really excited for 2.8 and its moving clouds, but I would say 80% thought the patch was pretty lack luster after it broke so much and frame rates dropped for 70% of the VR users, it wasn't overwhelmingly positive at all once you got a few days into it and discovered all the introduced bugs, it certainly took the shine of it which is a shame for such a pumped up update.

What we liked
PG lighting which is awesome but our group thought it was a strange map to use for this and thought it should have been the Caucus, we know it will be introduced across other maps but the time line on that, well its ED it could take years.
F10 map updates

What we didn't like

FPS hit, as I said 70% of our pilots have said in VR and none VR they have taken a big FPS hit online and some offline, I'm talking up to 25% reduction in FPS compared to 2.7.
Module bugs- so many, its too many to list but lots reported here when I have looked
CTDs (some are fixed with the patch)

Then we get a small patch that fixed quite a few nasty CTDs which was great and few module items but also ignored some pretty major ones like the KA-50 cockpit language issues with mixed Russian/English cockpits and autopilot issue (all reported) this is on a module that never had any major issues.

If your beta testers didn't pick this stuff up and report it, id dare say you need some new ones in your testing groups, we picked the KA-50 issue within 5 mins of flying it.

I cant recall a time when our servers have been empty on weekends but so far Friday night (our servers big night) we have seen literally zero participation in our online missions, is this due to 2.8 bugs or a slow loss of interest in DCS as its performance declines slowly, I have no idea, but its the first time for a while I have looked at playing some different games for a long time as none of my Discord mate are around flying since 2.8 come out

This is also the first time I have set up a duel install of DCS so I can go back and play the last 2.7 build offline for my SP missions with out the 2.8 bugs.

Sorry this isn't a positive post, DCS is such a great game and I love playing it as you know, but for me its slowly dying due to a lack of focus on things need and not needed.

AI updates - across the board mainly ground units that are boring to fight against.

Lack of focus on what your programmers are implementing for future updates i.e. internal 3D modeling of systems on the KA-50 V3 sitting behind panels I wont see from inside the cockpit and don't really care too much for because I cant see them and wont use them, or animated Apache pilots getting in and out of the bird, there is much more these guys could focus on that is way more important than this stuff.

Performance promises in updates that don't eventuate when the updates are rolled out.

This stuff is killing DCS for long term players like my self, who are actively engaged in DCS and have been for a long time and try to be the best DCS ambassadors we can for the brand on our servers.

Cheers

Edited November 5, 2022 by Hotdognz
Some minor updates to the post for clarity

[hanab]

Totaly agree with you. This initial 2.8 kill VR and the game too. But it is an open beta. 

i Hope That ed will fix all the issue Before to switch stable on 2.8

[Gunfreak]

4 hours ago, hanab said:

Totaly agree with you. This initial 2.8 kill VR and the game too. But it is an open beta. 

i Hope That ed will fix all the issue Before to switch stable on 2.8

Had no issues in VR, performance is exactly the same as before. 

Don't use openxr

And delete the two folders in the saved games folder. That seems to fix the problem for 90% of VR users(if they had a problem)

[Hotdognz]

 

6 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Had no issues in VR, performance is exactly the same as before. 

Don't use openxr

And delete the two folders in the saved games folder. That seems to fix the problem for 90% of VR users(if they had a problem)

Thanks for the info but I know how to sort my VR out, I have been running VR since the HTC Vive in DCS and consider my self a very experienced user of VR in DCS and know what works and what doesnt to get the maximum FPS out of DCS for my rig

I also pass all this on to my Discord group and we are where we are at with my post above

Edited November 5, 2022 by Hotdognz

[funkster]

Sorry ED but I agree with OP 100%

2.8 is a "S***S***" and a glance at the forum posts is far from being well received (positive).

 Most have had massive performance hits, CTDs, breaking of DCS Published ADD ONS (VAICOM)  and for what ? -  moving clouds and rainbows.

For me the dev focus just seems way off ......as the Hotdognz states there are so many other fundamentals that need URGENT attention! Multicore, Vulkan, AI , ATC etc etc. 

 Fully understand this is Beta but this patch was one of the worse and shouldn't have passed ALPHA.  

I am hopeful that we have a Hotfix Patch incoming ASAP but please please please can we start getting some focus on the basics?

Edited November 9, 2022 by funkster

[Hiob]

2 minutes ago, funkster said:

2.8 is a "S***S***" and a glance at the forum posts is far from being well received (positive).

ffs, calm down. Has it never dawned on you that feedback in forums is primarily given by people that are unhappy/ have problems. People without issues don't tend to spam the forum with "well done" messages.

So I'd be careful with projecting my own perception and backing it up by "a glance at the forum".

[Gunfreak]

10 minutes ago, funkster said:

Sorry ED but I agree with OP 100%

2.8 is a "S***S***" and a glance at the forum posts is far from being well received (positive).

 Most have had massive performance hits, CTDs, breaking of DCS Published ADD ONS (VAICOM)  and for what ? -  moving clouds and rainbows.

For me the dev focus just seems way off ......as the OP states there are so many other fundamentals that need URGENT attention! Multicore, Vulkan, AI , ATC etc etc. 

 Fully understand this is Beta but this patch was one of the worse and shouldn't have passed ALPHA.  

I am hopeful that we have a Hotfix Patch incoming ASAP but please please please can we start getting some focus on the basics?

There's literally a major AI update in this patch.

And there's already come out one hot fix.

[funkster]

29 minutes ago, Hiob said:

ffs, calm down. Has it never dawned on you that feedback in forums is primarily given by people that are unhappy/ have problems. People without issues don't tend to spam the forum with "well done" messages.

So I'd be careful with projecting my own perception and backing it up by "a glance at the forum".

I am calm and not projecting anything. Its called an opinion based on 14 yrs (Not 2yrs) of experience of ED/DCS. 

26 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

There's literally a major AI update in this patch.

And there's already come out one hot fix.

The AI update this patch is JET ONLY and specific to COMBAT. This doesn't address the 1000s of known AI issues listed in the AI forum section. Some of which have been around since day 1. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by funkster

[Gunfreak]

2 minutes ago, funkster said:

I am calm and not projecting anything. Its called an opinion based on 14 yrs (Not 2yrs) of experience of ED/DCS. 

The AI update this patch is JET ONLY and specific to COMBAT. This doesn't address the 1000s of known AI issues listed in the AI forum section. Some of which have been around since day 1. 

 

No, but you complained about lack of AI fixes in a patch that has a big AI fix. So far this year we've had 2  major AI upgrades relating to AI, we also know that warbirds will get some too and they are reworking the AI logic that according to ED will make the AI behave more realistically in all situations and might even be less demanding on systems. 

[Hiob]

22 minutes ago, funkster said:

I am calm and not projecting anything.

Swearing and lashing out gives a different impression.

22 minutes ago, funkster said:

Its called an opinion based on 14 yrs (Not 2yrs) of experience of ED/DCS.

I assume I'm supposed to be impressed? Sorry....

[funkster]

4 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

No, but you complained about lack of AI fixes in a patch that has a big AI fix. So far this year we've had 2  major AI upgrades relating to AI, we also know that warbirds will get some too and they are reworking the AI logic that according to ED will make the AI behave more realistically in all situations and might even be less demanding on systems. 

Yes it is a complaint that we still encounter  BASIC AI issues that have been raised for literally a decade.  Its great that the JET AI can fight more realistically but not when you can't fly an SP Campaign without suicidal UFO wingmen taking you out 30mins into the flight. 

The point being made here was that absolute focus needs to shift to address these long standing fundamentals. 

[funkster]

18 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Swearing and lashing out gives a different impression.

I assume I'm supposed to be impressed? Sorry....

S***S*** is an expression - obvious humour is lost in translation. 

Anyway I'm out so thread can get back on track. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by funkster

[Hiob]

2 minutes ago, funkster said:

S***S*** is an expression - obvious humour is lost in translation. 

Gotta love those people. First being rude and then calling it humor when called out....

Imagine being an developer, and getting your work called a S***S***. I bet you would be laughing!

[Gunfreak]

16 minutes ago, funkster said:

Yes it is a complaint that we still encounter  BASIC AI issues that have been raised for literally a decade.  Its great that the JET AI can fight more realistically but not when you can't fly an SP Campaign without suicidal UFO wingmen taking you out 30mins into the flight. 

The point being made here was that absolute focus needs to shift to address these long standing fundamentals. 

Yes, there are many things wrong with the game's AI,  and it's annoying. 

I'm partly holding back flying several ww2 Campaigns because of the unrealistic AI both in formation flying, in combat and the climb. It takes away from immersion.

But in this patch you actually got an AI update. Your complaint would be more valid on all the other patches that don't have any any AI patches.

Here they added AI improvements,  which was at least half of the main part of this update.

[schurem]

And boy is it glorious. I'm having a whale of a time doing the tango with the AI.

[funkster]

11 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Yes, there are many things wrong with the game's AI,  and it's annoying. 

I'm partly holding back flying several ww2 Campaigns because of the unrealistic AI both in formation flying, in combat and the climb. It takes away from immersion.

But in this patch you actually got an AI update. Your complaint would be more valid on all the other patches that don't have any any AI patches.

Here they added AI improvements,  which was at least half of the main part of this update.

It wasn't really focused on AI , that was just one of many  fundamental things I believe need to be looked at ahead of the "bells and whistle" items like clouds etc.

Anyway,  good choice regarding holding back on Campaigns as its a really shame to have them messed up. I can thoroughly recommend "reflected simulation" WW2 campaigns when you do though.  Superb!

[MadKreator]

45 minutes ago, funkster said:

It wasn't really focused on AI , that was just one of many  fundamental things I believe need to be looked at ahead of the "bells and whistle" items like clouds etc.

Anyway,  good choice regarding holding back on Campaigns as its a really shame to have them messed up. I can thoroughly recommend "reflected simulation" WW2 campaigns when you do though.  Superb!

I too, question their priorities sometimes. I suppose they have their reasons. Personally, I would take clear skies all day long everyday, if it meant the AI had half a brain in general flight, in game HUD’s weren’t blinding at night( using exported mfd’s), better graphical support for widescreen monitors( looking at you fat, fuzzy HUD’s), ground targets in  TGP weren’t totally camouflaged up close, but clearly visible 20NM out, stupid ground clutter popping in 200’ in front of the aircraft( either do away with it or make it fade in at longer distance).. etc etc.. Their priorities are theirs nonetheless Hoping that Vulkan support will alleviate some of the complexities for the devs once implemented, and allow some of these things to handled in a more efficient way.

Edited November 9, 2022 by MadKreator

[sthompson]

28 minutes ago, MadKreator said:

I too, question their priorities sometimes. I suppose they have their reasons. Personally, I would take ... stupid ground clutter popping in 200’ in front of the aircraft( either do away with it or make it fade in at longer distance).. etc

 

You realize you can do that already and have been able to do so for a long time. it's in the settings. Right?

[MadKreator]

2 hours ago, sthompson said:

You realize you can do that already and have been able to do so for a long time. it's in the settings. Right?

Yes Ive turned the grass/clutter to 0 and also modified the lua associated with it. Which helps a lot..but  I’m thinking like on Syria and PG ( which is probably actually  baked into the map) not necessarily the grass/clutter sliders.  The dumb little bushes that pop up right in front of you at low altitudes no matter what the clutter settings are LOL Just wishful thinking. But on the same note, the DCS grass, clutter and tree models could use some work too  Just thinking out loud. Point was, there are many core aspects which have gone untouched for many years in lieu of developing new things.

Edited November 9, 2022 by MadKreator

[Hotdognz]

2 hours ago, sthompson said:

You realize you can do that already and have been able to do so for a long time. it's in the settings. Right?

Which setting would that be ??