Detecting enemies; Labels-on to easy, Labels-Off to hard

[eV1Te]

I find it very difficult to detect enemies in time in DCS, detecting an enemy helicopter is nearly impossible even when I know where he should be. And if I don't know where he is, it's pure luck if I don't get shot down. :wallbash:

 

With labels turned on the gameplay is to unrealistic and it is to easy to detect and kill enemies.

 

With labels turned off the gameplay is more realistic but it's far more difficult to detect enemies than it would be in real life! The human eye have much much better resolution than any computer screen. With full zoom on the mouse wheel you are closer to the resolution of the unaided human eye, but you can't have that zoom while you are flying of course.

 

What setting are you using and are you experiencing the same difficulty as I am with detecting enemies in time?

[RichardG]

Thats funny, I think they are too easy to see. Vehicles stand out like a sore thumb in anything but wooded terrain. So do infantry. The color pallette of the terain seems faded, like a watercolor painting, whereas the vehicles are sharper, darker, easy to see.

[ericinexile]

Textures High. Scenes High. Visibility Range Medium.

 

I think you either have incredible eyes or you are overstating the unrealism of the sim. I find that I can see most vehicles on a clear day well outside their effective kill circle. Bigger vehicles can be seen at 10 kms+. Good luck doing that with your eyes. Manpads are trickier but still far easier than the real world. Two things help me:

 

1) Use the skhval scan mode with a high scan rate. That way you can concentrate on flying while peeking at the CRT for signs of life.

 

2) Turn 180 degrees away from any LWS lamp, extend a couple of miles then face the offending bad guy and send a few vikhrs on his way.

 

3) The Ka50 has dreadful over-the-nose visibility by helo standards so I sometimes fly with the door open side-slipping to the left with full or near-full right rudder. It would be an incredibly stupid thing to do in real combat but in the game it works--plus its fun.

 

Now lets talk about trees...

 

Smokin' Hole

[eV1Te]

Thats funny, I think they are too easy to see. Vehicles stand out like a sore thumb in anything but wooded terrain. So do infantry. The color pallette of the terain seems faded, like a watercolor painting, whereas the vehicles are sharper, darker, easy to see.

 

I can agree to some extent with the ground units, but the helicopters are much more difficult to detect (especially the Mi-24V?!)

 

What graphic settings are you using as well as AA and AF (which might change the way units are seen at greater distances)?

 

I have 4x AA and 8x AF and the standard High settings in game.

Edited January 14, 2009 by eV1Te

[RichardG]

Flying at 1680*1050 resolution, 8xAA, 16xAF., high, high, medium. I spend most time hunting targets heads up with the naked eye, slightly zoomed in. I only go to the schval when targeting, or inspecting an area of interest.

[dirt-torpedo]

nonsense!

gtx9800!

game looks GREAT!

[uhoh7]

This is a classic arguement in many sims. No one can agree because we are all at different rez etc. On some systems objects do indeed stand out. On others they do not.

 

I play at 2560x1600 on a 30", and am ashamed to admit I still often use labels--my hotas are mapped to quickly turn them on and off. Objects are not easy to spot on my screen, and it's lazer sharp with aa af etc.

 

What would be great would be a slider in the settings which effects how enemy objects stand out. Then we could all tweak it to our needs.

 

That said I'm learned to use recon and the datalink with wingman to help in this regard.

[spyda]

I find it very difficult to detect enemies in time in DCS, detecting an enemy helicopter is nearly impossible even when I know where he should be. And if I don't know where he is, it's pure luck if I don't get shot down. :wallbash:

 

With labels turned on the gameplay is to unrealistic and it is to easy to detect and kill enemies.

 

With labels turned off the gameplay is more realistic but it's far more difficult to detect enemies than it would be in real life! The human eye have much much better resolution than any computer screen. With full zoom on the mouse wheel you are closer to the resolution of the unaided human eye, but you can't have that zoom while you are flying of course.

 

What setting are you using and are you experiencing the same difficulty as I am with detecting enemies in time?

i disagree i think it would be harder to see the enemy with the naked eye in real life

[Sokol1_br]

From SimHQ:

 

------------- replacement .lua file begins ------------------------

 

-- Label parameters

-- Copyright © 2004, Eagle Dynamics.

 

-- schmeeling adjustments 30 Dec 2008

-- reduced air distances

-- reduced ground label distances, no ground labels within 500m

-- disabled weapon labels

-- set all labels the same color (green)

 

AirOn = true

GroundOn = true

NavyOn = true

WeaponOn = false

 

-- Label max distance depends on graphics visibility range option value

-- For low E40000.0 m

-- For medium E50000.0 m

-- For high E80000.0 m

 

---------------------------------

-- Label text format symbols

-- %N - name of object

-- %D - distance to object

-- %P - pilot name

-- %n - new line

-- %% - symbol '%'

-- %x, where x is not NDPn% - symbol 'x'

------------------------------------------

-- Example

-- labelFormat[5000] = "Name: %N%nDistance: %D%n Pilot: %P"

-- up to 5km label is:

-- Name: Su-33

-- Distance: 30km

-- Pilot: Pilot1

 

AirFormat = {}

AirFormat[1000] = "}%P"

AirFormat[2500] = "}%n%N"

AirFormat[10000] = "]%n%D"

AirFormat[20000] = "'"

 

GroundFormat = {}

GroundFormat[500] = ""

GroundFormat[2500] = "{%N"

GroundFormat[5000] = "~%n%D"

GroundFormat[10000] = "`"

 

NavyFormat = {}

NavyFormat[5000] = "{%N"

NavyFormat[10000] = "~%n%D"

NavyFormat[20000] = "`"

 

WeaponFormat = {}

WeaponFormat[5000] = "[%N%n%D"

WeaponFormat[10000] = "|%n%D"

WeaponFormat[20000] = "|"

 

-- Colors in {red, green, blue} format, volume from 0 up to 255

 

ColorAliesSide = {0, 255, 0}

ColorEnemiesSide = {0, 255, 0}

 

I hate icons/labels, but need a compromisse for low end system, so I change for this:

 

AirFormat = {}

AirFormat[1000] = "."

AirFormat[2500] = "."

AirFormat[10000] ="."

AirFormat[20000] = ""

 

GroundFormat = {}

GroundFormat[500] = ""

GroundFormat[2500] = "."

GroundFormat[5000] = "."

GroundFormat[10000] = ""

 

The only I see is a green . for friends and enemies. And nothing for weapons.

 

 

Sokol1

[A.S]

:megalol:

 

i still havent tried BS, but i hear alot that most servers run with external views on ??? :huh::huh:

 

such a great new realistic sim BUT externals for MP combat? :shocking: :dunno:

 

cmon guys....:doh:

 

time to get used to all that fine stuff build in the chopper and get a lecture bout navigation and proper briefings and preplaning missions

. .... or is it still SEAD visual contact boom boom style?

 

:smilewink:

[eV1Te]

On some systems objects do indeed stand out. On others they do not.

 

This is very true, look at this screenshot (png without destructive compression so the image looks exactly like in game).

 

There is a Mi-24V closer than 1 km and within the HUD. Can you spot him?

(Ps. he also have his green/red wing-nav light turned on!) :music_whistling:

[geogob]

but it's far more difficult to detect enemies than it would be in real life!

 

I really do not agree with you here.

 

While flying with friends, we often have fun trying to spot specific things on the ground and identifying them. Also, we often have to search and spot for other air traffic.

 

I can assure you that trying to spot a low flying helicopter is really not an easy task in real life... and it has nav lights and beacon running. Same with ground objects... it's nearly impossible, especially and the typical engagement range of the Ka-50. I bet it takes real combat pilots a lot of training to reach efficient target spotting and identification skills.

 

While I play this little spotting game in real life, the targets I'm trying to spot are not hidding. They are not covered with camo patterns.

 

Spotting targets is much more easier in DCS than in real life, regardless of the settings. I am no combat pilot, but I'll be really surprised if anyone confirms that is not the case.

[thinkr]

could you circle him? lol seriously...

[A.S]

hehe..have u ever tried to see a dark car from a hill up....down to 7-8nm haha...try it

[uhoh7]

This is very true, look at this screenshot (png without destructive compression so the image looks exactly like in game).

 

There is a Mi-24V closer than 1 km and within the HUD. Can you spot him?

(Ps. he also have his green/red wing-nav light turned on!) :music_whistling:

 

ahhh, obviously the cia has given the ingrate georgians a cloaking device.....I put my nose to screen, I can't see him. Like thinkr asked, circle him!!!

 

i disagree i think it would be harder to see the enemy with the naked eye in real life

 

You guys could be right, but in RL I'd think a pilot would get alot more tips from ground and air as to where to look, as noted above.

 

Again, some method of graduated visibilty for objects, even a faint pulse which could be adjusted for taste, it would make everybody happy. RL junkies could turn it way down, and icon hating blind guys could turn it up.

 

RVE no BS yet???????????? waz up wit dat?

Edited January 14, 2009 by uhoh7

[tusler]

I have the same difficulty as you do finding Waldo in the Hud!

I was playing one mission online and he set things so the labels came on only when you were less than 1km from the weapon. If you spotted it out at 7+ km then that worked well but if you did not see em until the label came on you were in Big trouble and better be quick with the reactions!

it was great fun anyway:thumbup:

[71st_Mastiff]

he's in the bottom right corner of the hud but I dont see any christmas lights?

I see the fire lights better than that hind. lol

[Kurtz]

Im pretty sure I read in Apache Dawn that flights[English Army] often go into a wheel formation at around 2km from target. Each heli watches the others arse. Any weapon launch is spotted by the trailing heli. Each heli trails each other in the wheel. This makes sense to me although I have no RL experiance.

 

Another method we used last night in attempt to locate a target I flew over the target area at around 1000m. My wingman was lower and stationry spotting and engaging or sending targets via data link. I would get early warning on weapon launch and evade as required. Move out to around 5km then turn and engage marked targets.

 

I think BS is very much a team orientated game that suits multiplay. In singleplay the wingman is the bait. I send him ahead to recon the target area. Targets are very difficult to spot if you lone wolf it.

 

My thoughts anyhow :)

[EagleEye]

We do the same in MP what you do, Kurtz. Yes, BS is a team orientated game.

We allways send the "Rambo" in our flight forward to be the bait.:D

Edited January 14, 2009 by EagleEye

[Feuerfalke]

Bottom right corner.

 

But there are 2 things to consider:

 

1. The helo does not move on the screenshot, which makes it hard to spot.

2. A helo is painted with camo, so an overflying plane does NOT see it. If you'd see it easily, the designers should reconsider camo-colors.

3. You're way too high for a helo :D

 

 

As Kurtz said, there are many tactics to be employed for helos. The wingman on your 4:30 is nice for screenshots and maybe for transit, but not for combat.

 

One of the tactics for transit in hostile environment is to have 2 or 3 flying low on the path making a stretched and smooth scissors-like maneuver, while the third is watching from a higher altitude for missile launches.

Another, slower version is to cover each other. You hide in a position, one moves to the next cover, while the others watch for enemy fire, then the others follow one by one, each keeping an eye on the other.

 

Helo-sims depend on teamplay and tactics, rather than speed and guns.

[Boberro]

It is hard to spot enemy choppers (units are IMO easier), but sometimes at maximum zoom is harder than un-zoomed... in no zoom you can spot sometimes big dot, like in Flaming Cliffs.

[lucasdigital]

I think the hind is always easier to see when it lands:

 

[Belphe]

I think the hind is always easier to see when it lands:

 

 

 

amazing pic lucas...! real or fake?

[Feuerfalke]

amazing pic lucas...! real or fake?

 

Real

 

[lucasdigital]

There you go again! With no air crew standing in front of it, it just looks like a big bird ;-)