Confusion with LITENING and Designation and Mavericks

[bonesvf103]

Hello,

If I used WPDSG on a waypoint, the TPOD slews to that WP.

1.  At this point, is the target already designated, or do I have to TDC depress on it to do so

2.  If it slews to that WP and I find that it is off the target a bit (say it was a convoy and the WP was on the center of the convoy but not on a tank), I can slew the TPOD to the target and then hit ATRK or PTRK.  Is this now the designated target, or is it still the WP?

3.  I read in Chuck's guide that you designate the target you tracked via ATRK or PTRK by TDC depressing on it.  But this is also how you activate Targeting Pod Offset mode.  Is there an error in procedure here?

4.  If you WPDSG then fine tune the target and PTRK a moving target and select the Maverick MFD and uncage it, will the Maverick look at the WPDSG or the PTRK?

Thanks.

v6,

boNes

[silverdevil]

3 minutes ago, bonesvf103 said:

Hello,

If I used WPDSG on a waypoint, the TPOD slews to that WP.

1.  At this point, is the target already designated, or do I have to TDC depress on it to do so

2.  If it slews to that WP and I find that it is off the target a bit (say it was a convoy and the WP was on the center of the convoy but not on a tank), I can slew the TPOD to the target and then hit ATRK or PTRK.  Is this now the designated target, or is it still the WP?

3.  I read in Chuck's guide that you designate the target you tracked via ATRK or PTRK by TDC depressing on it.  But this is also how you activate Targeting Pod Offset mode.  Is there an error in procedure here?

4.  If you WPDSG then fine tune the target and PTRK a moving target and select the Maverick MFD and uncage it, will the Maverick look at the WPDSG or the PTRK?

Thanks.

v6,

boNes

hello. Waypoint Designate (WPDSG) slews pod to WP. when you slew from there to a target or area, thats where the TDC is pressed. example, if you were trying to put an AGM-154A on an area then ATRK. if you want a moving target for a guided bomb, then PTRK. chuck's guide and the official manual may be out of date.

[bonesvf103]

If I select ATRK or PTRK, do I need to press TDC or is it automatically designated when I select ATRK/PTRK?

Any insight on my Maverick question?

v6,

boNes

 

PS The Chuck's guide I referenced was released July 19, 2022.  I guess that doesn't necessarily mean it's accurate either though, huh?

Edited November 25, 2022 by bonesvf103

[silverdevil]

33 minutes ago, bonesvf103 said:

If I select ATRK or PTRK, do I need to press TDC or is it automatically designated when I select ATRK/PTRK?

Any insight on my Maverick question?

v6,

boNes

 

PS The Chuck's guide I referenced was released July 19, 2022.  I guess that doesn't necessarily mean it's accurate either though, huh?

 

once you designate the target with TDC press, it is where the weapon will calculate where it hits. PTRK moving ATRK stationary. including mavericks. the pod just puts the SPI on something.

[bonesvf103]

Well if I have a target tracked in ATRK or PTRK then hit TDC, it goes into offset mode...

v6,

boNes

[Hulkbust44]

On 11/25/2022 at 1:51 PM, bonesvf103 said:

Well if I have a target tracked in ATRK or PTRK then hit TDC, it goes into offset mode...

v6,

boNes

TDC depress would only be used for designation in INR. It is automatic in SCENE and AUTO. 
EDIT: missed the LITENING specification. Area and point track are automatic designation.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Hulkbust44

[QuiGon]

On 11/25/2022 at 5:19 PM, bonesvf103 said:

1.  At this point, is the target already designated, or do I have to TDC depress on it to do so

It is already designated at this point (hence WPDSG = Waypoint Designate).
 

On 11/25/2022 at 5:19 PM, bonesvf103 said:

2.  If it slews to that WP and I find that it is off the target a bit (say it was a convoy and the WP was on the center of the convoy but not on a tank), I can slew the TPOD to the target and then hit ATRK or PTRK.  Is this now the designated target, or is it still the WP?

It's still the WP. You need to press TDC depress to designate a new target through the TGP. The tracking mode of the TGP is irrelevant for target designation.
 

On 11/25/2022 at 5:19 PM, bonesvf103 said:

3.  I read in Chuck's guide that you designate the target you tracked via ATRK or PTRK by TDC depressing on it.

That's wrong.
 

On 11/25/2022 at 5:19 PM, bonesvf103 said:

4.  If you WPDSG then fine tune the target and PTRK a moving target and select the Maverick MFD and uncage it, will the Maverick look at the WPDSG or the PTRK?

WPDSG

[bonesvf103]

Thanks, QuiGon.  SO how do I get the Maverick to follow a target I have in PTRK?  If I TDC depress in the TPOD, it goes to Target Offset Mode, I don't think it designates then.  If I can't get the target in PTRK to designate, I don't see the point of PTRK except maybe for dropping a laser guided bomb.  What am I missing?

v6,

boNes

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

Thanks, QuiGon.  SO how do I get the Maverick to follow a target I have in PTRK?  If I TDC depress in the TPOD, it goes to Target Offset Mode, I don't think it designates then.  If I can't get the target in PTRK to designate, I don't see the point of PTRK except maybe for dropping a laser guided bomb.  What am I missing?

v6,

boNes

You don't. The Hornet doesn't have this capability, that the Mav seeker follows along the TGP, like in the F-16 or A-10C. With the Hornet the Mav can only be slewed to a fixed designated point. That's also true for all other weapons, like when you drop bombs in CCRP. You need to manually designate a fixed target point to get CCRP steering indications on the HUD. The Hornet doesn't permanently generate a SPI (Sensor Point of Interest) like the F-16 or A-10C do.
That doesn't make PTRK useless, as it's still very helpful to automatically keep track of a moving target and can also be used to guide LGBs on to the target as you said (well, if the target isn't going too fast, otherwise you should lead the target manually).

Edited November 30, 2022 by QuiGon

[Hulkbust44]

On 11/29/2022 at 11:27 PM, bonesvf103 said:

Thanks, QuiGon.  SO how do I get the Maverick to follow a target I have in PTRK?  If I TDC depress in the TPOD, it goes to Target Offset Mode, I don't think it designates then.  If I can't get the target in PTRK to designate, I don't see the point of PTRK except maybe for dropping a laser guided bomb.  What am I missing?

v6,

boNes

It should just be when it's uncaged.

[Lane]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:27 AM, bonesvf103 said:

Thanks, QuiGon.  SO how do I get the Maverick to follow a target I have in PTRK?  If I TDC depress in the TPOD, it goes to Target Offset Mode, I don't think it designates then.  If I can't get the target in PTRK to designate, I don't see the point of PTRK except maybe for dropping a laser guided bomb.  What am I missing?

v6,

boNes

 

 

 

 

[bonesvf103]

Nope.  I've done several tests now and my conclusion is that the Maverick, when using the TPOD, will look at the last point the TPOD is looking at at the instant when you switch the TDC from TPOD to MAV.

 

It is also the case if you designate a target in GMT.  Once you switch the TDS to Maverick, it looks at the last point that you designated in the GMT when you switched to Mav.  Now, if you are lucky, it will look at a point that is close enough to the target to catch its IR signature and it will snap to it and lock on, but otherwise, it's just stabilized at that particular point until you slew it over and try to lock it.  But usually the Maverick "eye" is on that point whilst the convoy has already moved on.  You can see the diamond in the HUD from the TPOD in PTRK/ATRK is in one place and the Maverick target sight, instead of being superimposed on the diamond, is off to the side, ground stablized instead.

 

This gives more credence to the previous post where the poster said that the Maverick will not continuously follow a target in PTRK/ATRK.  Only F-16s and A-10 ones do.

 

v6,

boNes

[Creasy85]

I am quite confused myself with the IR Maverics (MAV F). Using the litening pod I find the target, uncage maverick, designate target and fly towards it. Get a nice countdown on the maverick and then in range. But it remains crossed out and can't fire it. Something is wrong with my procedure, can't figure out what. Any advice please?

[Tholozor]

40 minutes ago, Creasy85 said:

I am quite confused myself with the IR Maverics (MAV F). Using the litening pod I find the target, uncage maverick, designate target and fly towards it. Get a nice countdown on the maverick and then in range. But it remains crossed out and can't fire it. Something is wrong with my procedure, can't figure out what. Any advice please?

Assign the TDC to the Maverick display.

[Wiggo]

About this came a question to my mind: With LITENING: When wptdesignate the pod-> move around to look target -> point track-> I want to jump of from point track for some reason -> pod slews / goes always back to waypoint designated first.  Is there a way that pod would not do that?

Edited February 9, 2023 by Wiggo

[bonesvf103]

On 2/9/2023 at 11:01 AM, Wiggo said:

About this came a question to my mind: With LITENING: When wptdesignate the pod-> move around to look target -> point track-> I want to jump of from point track for some reason -> pod slews / goes always back to waypoint designated first.  Is there a way that pod would not do that?

 

IIRC, you have to designate the point track.  If you set point track on an object it merely is tracking it, but it has not designated it as the target.  You may have to undesignate the WPDSG first (pinky button) otherwise it will go into offset mode.  I'm going off of memory right now so I will need to reverify that but I'm pretty sure that's how I do it.

v6,

boNes

[Creasy85]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:40 PM, Tholozor said:

Assign the TDC to the Maverick display.

did that couple of times caged+uncaged as well. In second playthrough I had the same problem, but could launch it and hit the target. Weird.

[hotrod525]

On 11/30/2022 at 2:42 AM, QuiGon said:

You don't. The Hornet doesn't have this capability, that the Mav seeker follows along the TGP, like in the F-16 or A-10C. With the Hornet the Mav can only be slewed to a fixed designated point. That's also true for all other weapons, like when you drop bombs in CCRP. You need to manually designate a fixed target point to get CCRP steering indications on the HUD. The Hornet doesn't permanently generate a SPI (Sensor Point of Interest) like the F-16 or A-10C do.
That doesn't make PTRK useless, as it's still very helpful to automatically keep track of a moving target and can also be used to guide LGBs on to the target as you said (well, if the target isn't going too fast, otherwise you should lead the target manually).

 

That is not true.

Maverick seeker will slave and follow GMT radar lock. Just like the seeker will indeed follow TGP, i just tried it and i've record an instant replay, i'll post the link once YT is done.

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by hotrod525

[rob10]

4 hours ago, hotrod525 said:

That is not true.

Maverick seeker will slave and follow GMT radar lock. Just like the seeker will indeed follow TGP, i just tried it and i've record an instant replay, i'll post the link once YT is done.

I'd say since the MAV is uncaged and appears to be locked on the target, that's more a case of the MAV is following the target rather than following anything the TGP or radar are doing (i.e. all 3 are independently following the target).

Edited February 16, 2023 by rob10

[QuiGon]

12 hours ago, hotrod525 said:

That is not true.

Maverick seeker will slave and follow GMT radar lock. Just like the seeker will indeed follow TGP, i just tried it and i've record an instant replay, i'll post the link once YT is done.

No, the Maverick does NOT follow your TGP in that video! The Maverick is locked onto the target vehicle and is following it on his own, while the TGP does the same independently of the Maverick. It's a case of both sensors doing the same thing simultaneously, but independent of each other.
With the Hornet, you can not slew the Maverick to the TGP, so that it follows the TGP arround like you can do in the F-16C and A-10C.

This

8 hours ago, rob10 said:

I'd say since the MAV is uncaged and appears to be locked on the target, that's more a case of the MAV is following the target rather than following anything the TGP or radar are doing (i.e. all 3 are independently following the target).

Edited February 17, 2023 by QuiGon

[hotrod525]

14 hours ago, rob10 said:

I'd say since the MAV is uncaged and appears to be locked on the target, that's more a case of the MAV is following the target rather than following anything the TGP or radar are doing (i.e. all 3 are independently following the target).

 

If MAV was Lock, the cross would be full, it is definitly tracking my radar brick, just go try it yourself.

[Wiggo]

On 2/15/2023 at 4:45 PM, bonesvf103 said:

IIRC, you have to designate the point track.  If you set point track on an object it merely is tracking it, but it has not designated it as the target.  You may have to undesignate the WPDSG first (pinky button) otherwise it will go into offset mode.  I'm going off of memory right now so I will need to reverify that but I'm pretty sure that's how I do it.

v6,

boNes

Yeah thanks. Seems so. I actually do have to undesignate it from WP designate and then click new point, it just seems to jump last designated target. Which is kinda logical though

[rob10]

3 hours ago, hotrod525 said:

If MAV was Lock, the cross would be full, it is definitly tracking my radar brick, just go try it yourself.

IIRC it only collapses to full cross if you're using the missile sensor to target.  If you are using another sensor (i.e. TPOD) to cue it it doesn't close on locked target, but the small cross steady indicates it has locked target.  If you fire in the above video it will hit target.  If it was following your radar only, it would miss because it would have no guidance once it fired and no longer had any data from the plane.