can not reproduce George not firing Hellfires (again)

[Mohamengina]

Looks like George won't fire Hellfires - this bug has been going on for ages and is super annoying.

 

Can you guys please fix it? Pretty much makes the Apache unflyable.

 

Thanks,

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dvlkz1i4hst0k38/Foothold Cauc Objectives v5-20221129-120734.trk?dl=0

Edited November 29, 2022 by Mohamengina

[Rongor]

Nice exaggeration but you can still fly the Apache even while Hellfires can't launch.

In most cases when George doesn't launch, the reason for it is on the TADS screen. If you observe it more closely that in 99 % when George refuses to launch, his current aim is off the target or the target is actually behind an obstacle and invisible. You will then have to be patient for George to regain LOS and precise crosshair on the target or even support him by flying respectively.

The real bug is that George reports targets after scanning that he actually can't reliably launch on at that moment.

[sirrah]

8 hours ago, Mohamengina said:

Looks like George won't fire Hellfires - this bug has been going on for ages and is super annoying.

 

Can you guys please fix it? Pretty much makes the Apache unflyable.

 

Thanks,

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dvlkz1i4hst0k38/Foothold Cauc Objectives v5-20221129-120734.trk?dl=0

 

 

Your threat title got me intrigued, as for me, the only times George didn't fire Hellfire's, was due to my own errors or him not having a clear LOS.

So, I checked your track:

• On first two attempts, you have George track and lase the target and he fires his Hellfire just fine
• Then, a bit later, you try to have him re-engage by spamming the "consent" button, but the first few times you are outside missile constraints (small square box):

• At some point, a bit later, you are within missile constraints. However at this point, the target is going all over the place (and maybe your yaw inputs are a bit to rapid), so I think that prevented George from actually firing at that point.
• In your frustrating attempts to have him fire, you then order George to select the gun and try to have him engage (obviously still well out of the gun's max range)
• Then, when at ±2200m from the target, you suddenly have George WAS back to Hellfire, "consent" and he fires, while the missile leaves, you have him WAS back to gun and again back to Hellfire. Lucky for you, George is beyond human and picks up the target again and lases again, allowing for the already airborne Hellfire to pick up the laser again and hit your target just in time.

 

Your thread title kinda suggests that something is not working (again), but I'm pretty sure, this is just another human (pilot) error mate

 

Also, have you ever tried to engage an airborne (and defensive flying) target while operating the CP/G station? You'll know that this is extremely difficult (next to impossible). The only reason that you can do this from the PLT seat, is because George is inhumanly capable of tracking flying targets. It's actually quite realistic that George didn't manage to engage the Hind in your track file.

 

 

[admiki]

I think I know why George did not fire at first. Your missile missed and it was still in the air when you asked George to fire another one. He won't fire and he never did that before, since that's they way it was since Apache was introduced.  You can see your Hellfire hiting the ground in the background just before you told George to WAS gun.

Yes, it's a bug that George will not fire while previous missile is flying, but IMO that does not make Apache unflyable. You should just reconsider your tactics.

[Mohamengina]

There were plenty of times he did have clear LOS, there weren't any other missiles in the air, he had Hellfires 'WAS'd' exclusively and he still wasn't firing.

I started spamming the authorise button towards the end when I was getting frustrated he wasn't firing. This wasn't a sincere attempt at getting him to fire.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Mohamengina

[Tepnox]

I think too this has to do with the line of sight of george. Sometimes he has to be pixel perfect on the target or he refuses to shoot. Raw yaw inputs doesn't help either.

I simple shoot the Hellfires myself since whe have the "No Weapons" option for George AI. I let him lase and fire the missile myself. Small controls input still required or he will overshoot / undershoot the target.

Even manual LOAL works acceptable this way (find target - laser is disengaged, fire missile behind hill / obstacle - bop up and let George lase for final missile approach).

I generally think the controls are still too sensitive in many ways and the flight model and SAS needs still improvements.

[Mohamengina]

I'll have a play with getting George more on target. Thanks for the suggestion.

[BIGNEWY]

please provide as short as possible track replay examples. 

George will not fire for various reason. 

platform is not stable enough

out of range

line of sight to target obstructed 

out of ammo

 

In my tests I am not seeing any issue

[Sandman1330]

I think there is something to this, but I don't think it's just George.

It always happens late (an hour or more) into a liberation mission, so short track files are hard to come by. But what happens is hellfires simply won't fire at all. George won't fire them, I've tried from the pilot seat to have him de-WAS and just lase, then I WAS hellfire but nothing comes off the rail when I attempt to fire them.

Then I switched to the CPG seat, and still, nothing comes off the rail. I pull the trigger and nothing happens. I just noticed as I'm drafting this, I DO get the missile countdown on the TADS from the CPG seat.

Again, super hard to replicate as it only happens late in a liberation mission. And I've also switched from the apache I started in to my wingman's aircraft using combined arms, not sure if that is a causal factor either.

I'll share my track here anyway, but be aware it's a long one... I'd love to share a short one but I haven't been able to replicate it in a short mission yet.

Track file:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ascm8Kmu7NR0hIA5Jfhx0kpoX9uFlQ?e=dWFlyu

And here's an attempt at making a video of the problem. I apologize as I'm not a content creator and I am not well versed in creating video, especially in VR. As I have the problem evident right now I want to get something out soonest.

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Sandman1330

[admiki]

So, from your videos, you are receiving backscatter. Did you try to aim at something else?

[Floyd1212]

Was that missile you were trying to fire actually there on the rail?  Maybe something got out of sync and that missile was actually gone, or maybe you took damage to that wing/pylon?

In that scenario, I would have jettisoned the stores on that pylon which would have forced the aircraft to move on to another missile.  Just a thought.

[Sandman1330]

7 hours ago, admiki said:

So, from your videos, you are receiving backscatter. Did you try to aim at something else?

Yes I tried other targets, and it shouldn’t matter to the actual launching of the hellfire. Yes it would affect accuracy but the hellfire would still leave the rail.

1 hour ago, Floyd1212 said:

Was that missile you were trying to fire actually there on the rail?  Maybe something got out of sync and that missile was actually gone, or maybe you took damage to that wing/pylon?

In that scenario, I would have jettisoned the stores on that pylon which would have forced the aircraft to move on to another missile.  Just a thought.

Both external view and the wpn page showed the missiles were present on the rails. I did take some damage but it was after the problem started (when I couldn’t hellfire I went in for guns). It’s also happened twice in two back to back missions now. Edit: oh I understand your question now, whether that specific missile was there or not, I’m not sure TBH. If that is the issue it’s clearly a bug, trying to fire a missile that isn’t present.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Sandman1330

[Sandman1330]

I wonder if I should start a new thread, as I don’t think this is related to George at all… I’m not sure if the OP tried firing them himself or not, so it could be what is causing his issues or could be unrelated.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Sandman1330

[admiki]

1 hour ago, Sandman1330 said:

Yes I tried other targets, and it shouldn’t matter to the actual launching of the hellfire. Yes it would affect accuracy but the hellfire would still leave the rail.

Wrong. Backscatter will prevent launch. Page 304 of Apache manual

[Sandman1330]

3 hours ago, admiki said:

Wrong. Backscatter will prevent launch. Page 304 of Apache manual

Either way it wasn’t the back scatter . Thanks for your input though.

[Sandman1330]

I was able to chase this one down, and started a new bug report as it's not related to George: