Deka Simulations announces the DCS: J-8II for DCS World!

[LowRider88]

24 minutes ago, Torbernite said:

I have to say you two made my dream atmosphere. While I don't agree with the J-20-MiG similarity either, Wyvern also raised it up quite cautiously and calmly, and good to see you made it clearer.

Even exact genetics and evolution studies went through an age of morphology (and even now morphology is still important) before molecular biology comes to make a mess.

I have accepted the truth that we normal fans can hardly find better way than "visual inspection" to rise a query on the relationship of aircrafts. Even the most precise guy can't avoid that before getting more info of the development and history.

In fact, most people in the forum seem to know little about those unproduced early Chinese projects, which can prevent many argue here. I hope someone can make such a brief introduction and it could be useful. I would try to find some more info myself.

 

It’s likewise great to talk to gentlemen like you guys too 

If I come off like a troll, please excuse me, I don’t intend to offend gentlemen.  I just don’t tolerate close minded bullies.

But tolerance is a virtue, so I can learn from you all.

You have an interesting perspective.  Actually the whole convergent evolution concept is interesting whether in aircraft design or in nature.  I think it can really be fun understanding the background behind why certain design choices were made and what socioeconomic conditions were involved in those choices at the time.

Thanks for piquing my interest.

[Billy]

I used to have no feelings if not dislike towards this plane, it's not as sexy as the F-14 or the F-15. I'm sure if Dassault was right on "If it is beautiful, it will fly well", the J-8 would tank terribly. But I've learned to love it recently, for how homemade it made me feel. This plane doesn't have a great integration of avionics, will not our maneuver your opponent. But every system there is reliable. It flies high and fast and has a long solid body of fuel that will take you anywhere. I don't mind whether it's a Su-15 copy, or inspired by the Flagon, or has nothing to do with it. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Billy

[FlankerFan35]

On 2/22/2023 at 4:31 PM, jonny415 said:

@FlankerFan35 not sure if R-77-1 can be equipped with the mig-29 model is in DCS probably need mig-29SM, read on the forum some where where ED team said clearly they not even thinking of R77-1. Clearly something needs to be done hopefully some 3d parties step in like Iron Deka has otherwise it’s going to be just one sided game.

29A no, 29S can however as it has the required equipment to use the 77 already.

[Harlikwin]

On 2/22/2023 at 4:50 PM, FlankerFan35 said:

 J-10As are being massively upgraded and possibly being exported, a 10A/B may be a possibility, especially with the early block 10As having the same radar/sensors and similar cockpit to the JF-17 we have currently. 10B has IRST and production batches AESA so that might be harder. AL-31F engine documents ED has already so I think it's most possible compared to any other red gen 4.

A J-10A is literally a fast JF-17.

The key sentence you missed, was that at some point (and no I'm not gonna go find it), Deka said IF the PLAF/PLAN operated the AC, they can't do it. So no flankers, no J10's, no Q-5 no J-7 etc... You can cope with that as you like. 

[FlankerFan35]

4 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

The key sentence you missed, was that at some point (and no I'm not gonna go find it), Deka said IF the PLAF/PLAN operated the AC, they can't do it. So no flankers, no J10's, no Q-5 no J-7 etc... You can cope with that as you like. 

Things can change and no J-7/Q-5 is no loss for anyone, I'll hope however irrational. That still leaves JF-17C and export J-10s with downrated equipment like PAFs gimped J-10Cs with export weapons and removed equipment.

[Harlikwin]

16 minutes ago, FlankerFan35 said:

Things can change and no J-7/Q-5 is no loss for anyone, I'll hope however irrational. That still leaves JF-17C and export J-10s with downrated equipment like PAFs gimped J-10Cs with export weapons and removed equipment.

Maybe, but I wouldn't hold your breath. 

[FlankerFan35]

its ok I'm already suffocating from lack of redfor 

[WinterH]

4 hours ago, FlankerFan35 said:

Things can change and no J-7/Q-5 is no loss for anyone, I'll hope however irrational

Don't care too much about a J-10. J-11 or any Flanker I'd be somewhat interested in. J-7/Q-5 I'll take over those anytime.

[PLAAF]

On 2/11/2023 at 4:59 AM, uboats said:

J-8II won dogfight over JF-17 in Pakistan years ago.

Unfortunately, J-8II has same gun deviation angle as JF-17 

Per 82 program office, 2 finished upgrade and many test (i.e. EMC, INS (around Edwards AF) etc), along with 4 avionics upgrade pack (radar, etc) were sent back to China later.

 

 

OMG, how did I miss this comment earlier??

J-8II won dogfight against JF-17? How? Can you share the tactics it used please, If you have it?

I never took J-8II as a dog fighter. I always thought that J-8II had roughly the same maneuverability as a F-4 phantom.

[LowRider88]

3 hours ago, PLAAF said:

OMG, how did I miss this comment earlier??

J-8II won dogfight against JF-17? How? Can you share the tactics it used please, If you have it?

I never took J-8II as a dog fighter. I always thought that J-8II had roughly the same maneuverability as a F-4 phantom.

UBoats also said the J-8II has min maneuvering speed under 200 km/hr, which is better than F-5E.  So it has good low speed maneuverability.  It also has good climb rate so I should be able to play turn fight or energy fight, 1 or 2 circle fight.

So it should be a good dog fighter.

4 hours ago, PLAAF said:

OMG, how did I miss this comment earlier??

J-8II won dogfight against JF-17? How? Can you share the tactics it used please, If you have it?

I never took J-8II as a dog fighter. I always thought that J-8II had roughly the same maneuverability as a F-4 phantom.

I would like to know the tactics used in that mock fight too!

[uboats]

13 hours ago, PLAAF said:

OMG, how did I miss this comment earlier??

J-8II won dogfight against JF-17? How? Can you share the tactics it used please, If you have it?

I never took J-8II as a dog fighter. I always thought that J-8II had roughly the same maneuverability as a F-4 phantom.

I know nothing more than this result

[LowRider88]

20 hours ago, PLAAF said:

OMG, how did I miss this comment earlier??

J-8II won dogfight against JF-17? How? Can you share the tactics it used please, If you have it?

I never took J-8II as a dog fighter. I always thought that J-8II had roughly the same maneuverability as a F-4 phantom.

This is the best I could find so far:

https://www-sohu-com.translate.goog/a/207948128_494439?_x_tr_sl=zh-CN&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

[FlankerFan35]

For those who still say J-8PP never existed, here is a nice picture of a J-8PP coming out of a C-5 nose.

Edited February 26, 2023 by FlankerFan35

[F-2]

2 minutes ago, FlankerFan35 said:

For those who still say J-8PP never existed, here is a nice picture of a J-8PP coming out of a C-5 nose.

null

Hawt

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

13 hours ago, FlankerFan35 said:

For those who still say J-8PP never existed, here is a nice picture of a J-8PP coming out of a C-5 nose.

 

I'll see your C-5 puking up a J-8 and raise you a J-8 over, presumably, California.

[Dr_Pavelheer]

Cool, I didn't know those prototypes were advanced enough to be flown

[FlankerFan35]

On 2/26/2023 at 10:21 AM, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

I'll see your C-5 puking up a J-8 and raise you a J-8 over, presumably, California.

Thats an F-8 so like in China  but the 8PP did plenty of test flights while in the US!!

[LowRider88]

On 2/27/2023 at 1:44 PM, FlankerFan35 said:

Thats an F-8 so like in China  but the 8PP did plenty of test flights while in the US!!

This article seems to imply the pic was in Cali:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40396/the-u-s-once-helped-china-develop-a-modern-jet-fighter

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

The sprawl says "Cali" to me. Also, it could've been some regulation that required any J-8s sent abroad like that be designated F-8?

[FlankerFan35]

Interesting that several J-8 visited the US then.

[Bremspropeller]

On 2/24/2023 at 8:34 AM, WinterH said:

J-7/Q-5 I'll take over those anytime.

Same here.

10 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

The sprawl says "Cali" to me. Also, it could've been some regulation that required any J-8s sent abroad like that be designated F-8?

Don't think so. Looks entirely non-Cali to me.

Just like in this pic:

The housing looks a little too socialist to for anywhere in Cali. I'd put my finger on domestic China.

J-8s doing test-flights in the US at this altitude and over densely populated areas...yeah, nah.

Also, I think both pics are doctored as the lighting suggests the aircraft was photographed at higher altitudes in bight sunshine vs. the ground being a normal low-altitude shot in the haze.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Bremspropeller

[Torbernite]

1小时前，Bremspropeller说：

Same here.

Don't think so. Looks entirely non-Cali to me.

Just like in this pic:

The housing looks a little too socialist to for anywhere in Cali. I'd put my finger on domestic China.

J-8s doing test-flights in the US at this altitude and over densely populated areas...yeah, nah.

Also, I think both pics are doctored as the lighting suggests the aircraft was photographed at higher altitudes in bight sunshine vs. the ground being a normal low-altitude shot in the haze.

 

You are right. F-8IIM is an export-oriented version with GPS, mission computer, 1553B data bus, Russian ZHUK radar and R-27, while it's never actually exported. It's not the version sent to America and was born after the end of PP project.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

2 hours ago, Torbernite said:

You are right. F-8IIM is an export-oriented version with GPS, mission computer, 1553B data bus, Russian ZHUK radar and R-27, while it's never actually exported. It's not the version sent to America and was born after the end of PP project.

Okay, so 'tis China then.

[Harlikwin]

4 hours ago, Torbernite said:

You are right. F-8IIM is an export-oriented version with GPS, mission computer, 1553B data bus, Russian ZHUK radar and R-27, while it's never actually exported. It's not the version sent to America and was born after the end of PP project.

Honestly I'd be more interested in that version. But hey we get what we get. 

[PLAAF]

2 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Honestly I'd be more interested in that version. But hey we get what we get. 

You took the words right out of my mouth.