Why give users the 'No force from mission, use mine' option when it breaks missions that creators spend countless hours working on?

[TEMPEST.114]

I am struggling to get users to turn this off, and they break the mission and rules that the mission designers spend a lot of time on.

Why did this even get added? 

May we ask that this be removed?

[DD_Fenrir]

Because user choice is a thing.

I may not want Wake Turbulence on as it negatively effects game performance on a mid level machine.

I may not want icons forced off as I have issues with my sight due to my advancing years.

There are umpteen different reasons.

Now, I get where you are coming fom, it's gotta be frustrating that as a Mission Designer you spend hours and hours - and I know, believe me - crafting your mission to work in certain way and a user comes along and a) blows a lot of that hard work by switching off settngs that are designed to challenge them and b) then moans when a mission doesn't work the way it should because of a).

However...

They are ALLOWED to.

When you put your mission up in public domain for public use you have automatically thrown away any right to dictate how people use it. 

The 'No force from mission, use mine' is simpy a shortcut anyway - any user can open the mission file in the ME and edit the difficulty options to their liking. The tick simply sidesteps the ME interface and allows people to run the mission at the settings they like best.

There's no stopping this. There's no way you can police it.

The only thing you can do is mitigate the complaints from people who do moan that the mission doesn't work properly after they've messed with it - put a disclaimer in the mission description warning users that your mission is designed to work and is best experienced with the difficulty settings as they come in the mission and that you as the mission designer will not be held responsible for any perceived lack of playability/functionality/entertainment that may occur should these settings be overridden.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by DD_Fenrir

[TEMPEST.114]

Users do have a choice. Not to play the mission/campaign. 

Allowing people to override specific and considered features doesn't help anyone. It dumbs down or breaks the mission and causes support grief or even unfair bad feedback for the mission designer.

I'm fully in support of people putting what options are mandatory for a mission as some form of 'checklist', but I cannot give ground to 'because I wanna' as an argument for breaking a well crafted and scripted mission.

[WinterH]

Option, should remain. /Thead

[71st_AH Rob]

As a mission designer I find it very frustrating but as a Server Owner I am dumbfounded.  So now everyone needs to have a password and promise not to uncheck this option or it might as well be WarThunder in Arcade mode.

I find it inconceivable that ED added the new oppressive IC to prevent cheating in MP that is so restrictive that it prevents players from using Viacom, an app that adds to immersion, yet adds an option that allows players to override the servers realism settings so they can add big colourful labels so they can spot en ac across the map and gain ad advantage.

 

[TEMPEST.114]

@71st_AH RobBravo. Perfectly stated. 

War Thunder / Ace Combat people should stay in their lane and not force DCS into that. 

[Art-J]

@71st_AH RobI believe MP clients still cannot override server options no matter if they have that window ticked or not. Is it not the case?

This thread is more about the SP missions and campaigns I guess.

[71st_AH Rob]

1 hour ago, Art-J said:

@71st_AH RobI believe MP clients still cannot override server options no matter if they have that window ticked or not. Is it not the case?

This thread is more about the SP missions and campaigns I guess.

That may be but our recent experience on my server was quite frustrating. The missions I made all had labels forced off yet some members could see labels anyway. My conclusion was that it was this tickbox that recently became checked by default which is frustrating since it was never documented. There may be a way to override it for MP bit that is also undocumented.

[legitscoper]

Just found this thread, this is such stupid idea, I wondered for hours why I can see as a spectator all units on the map, but not in the plane. This is game-breaking, since my server is designed to be a hard one, with no friendly units visible on the map. Now, it's just a possibility to cheat.


Edit: apparently you can modify the settings, either set your own in settings, and then save the mission, or modify the values directly from options file inside MIZ, which it really a zip

[Nealius]

On 2/21/2023 at 2:23 AM, Elphaba said:

Users do have a choice. Not to play the mission/campaign. 

Enough campaign details are not provided in advanced for the user to make that decision. So they waste money buying something where someone arrogantly gatekept users from customizing their experience to even use it.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Nealius

[LeCuvier]

I support the option. If I decide to use a SP mission someone else created, it becomes my mission and I modify it to suit my needs. And if that breaks some smart gadget that's my problem and not the problem of the mission designer.

One should not forget that mssion designers are not perfect; and they may create some functionality that doesn't work for everybody, and then I want to be able to adjust it.

No dictate please! In MP missions you can dictate, and that's one reason why I do not fly in MP.

[71st_AH Rob]

4 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

I support the option. If I decide to use a SP mission someone else created, it becomes my mission and I modify it to suit my needs. And if that breaks some smart gadget that's my problem and not the problem of the mission designer.

You are not understanding the problem.  If you download a mission you are and always have been free to change the settings. There is no need for the check box. 

And it does become the mission designers problem because players hold them unreasonably to account for the mission that they broke by using mods or making changes that the mission designers could not anticipate leading to frustration from posts slagging the mission and wasted time by the designer trying to recreate and fix a non-existent bug.

4 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

One should not forget that mssion designers are not perfect; and they may create some functionality that doesn't work for everybody, and then I want to be able to adjust it.

You can already, no need for the check box.

 

4 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

No dictate please! In MP missions you can dictate, and that's one reason why I do not fly in MP.

That's the point, in MP we can't dictate anymore.  I can build a server and set the exactly as I intend and the majority of the players want and someone can join and override the settings, for example they could just turn on labels and no one else would be the wiser unless they noticed how much better they are doing.  How would you feel if you played by the rules and kept getting shot down by someone you couldn't even see who was cheating by having labels on?

It is quite the non sequitur , ED has put in place measures to prevent players using shaders, VoiceAttack and other useful apps but lets a player turn on labels.

[SharpeXB]

50 minutes ago, 71st_AH Rob said:

I can build a server and set the exactly as I intend and the majority of the players want and someone can join and override the settings, for example they could just turn on labels and no one else would be the wiser

Really? That’s crazy wrong…

[LeCuvier]

48 minutes ago, 71st_AH Rob said:

You are not understanding the problem.  If you download a mission you are and always have been free to change the settings. There is no need for the check box.

 

 

I'm not quite as stupid as you seem to believe. I know I can change the mission. But mission files can be quite complex. And I do not want to waste my time trying to figure out where ther mission settings are bothering me.

[71st_AH Rob]

1 hour ago, LeCuvier said:

I'm not quite as stupid as you seem to believe. I know I can change the mission. But mission files can be quite complex. And I do not want to waste my time trying to figure out where ther mission settings are bothering me.

Well then the override check box won't do anything for you then if it is more complex than changing the settings that are in the same tab in the players settings that this check box is on.  

Controlling these settings in the mission editor is literally opening a menu and selecting a bunch of very obvious items, either on or off and sometimes there is a drop down menu.

I don't care what people do with a mission I make in single player. It literally takes longer to open the mission and save it again than to make the changes that this check box controls. 

What I don't want is the ability for players to override the server settings by default, turning on labels, full map icons, unlimited ammunition etc. 

 

[SharpeXB]

7 hours ago, 71st_AH Rob said:

What I don't want is the ability for players to override the server settings by default, turning on labels, full map icons, unlimited ammunition etc. 

That doesn’t happen, there’s probably a setting for servers which overrides this. If I go to a server with no labels set and try to force them on myself I don’t see any labels online. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by SharpeXB

[LeCuvier]

9 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

That doesn’t happen, there’s probably a setting for servers which overrides this. If I go to a server with no labels set and try to force them on myself I don’t see any labels online. 

 

That confirms my experience. I cannot override server-imposed restrictions like "no labels" in MP.