Mod repository w/ API to automatically update/download mods when joining servers

[FalcoGer]

A great many mods exist. Stuff like liveries don't require to be synchronized between servers and clients, but airframe mods and other assets do. And while some mods are of dubious quality or realism, a few stand out as exceptional and rival or even surpass ED's own assets, for example the A4-E community mod, SRS or the ground and naval assets made by the user currenthill among plenty more. Not including those high quality assets can therefore reduce the capability of designing scenarios and ultimately be less fun and/or realistic without them.

While I don't agree with the decision to not just include those high quality mods by default, I can understand the decision as they fall outside ED's quality control.

I therefore propose a middle ground solution that should work for most situations.

When joining a server, a list of required mods is already sent to the client and it is shown in the server list as missing required modules. I suggest that this goes one step further and that mods that announce themselves in this way also are required to have some sort of ID and version attached that can be used to directly download them from a mod repository, such as ed user files. If a user than tries to join a server, he or she may then be prompted if they want to fetch the required mods and be given the size and description for each instead of trying to hunt down the dependencies manually.

This would also require a type of mod manager, perhaps similar to or integrated with the module manager, within the game to enable or disable mods without going through the directories and moving/deleting folders so that mods don't affect servers or single player which aren't supposed to be affected.

As a bonus because the mods include a link to the repository, DCS can inquire about updates to the mod and automatically download them if the user desires such a thing.

Such a mod manager integration may then also be used to query users if they want to download optional mods, such as liveries, which are in use on the server.

While mod support exists on a basic level it is complicated and cumbersome to work with. Such additions would greatly enhance DCS by allowing to include mods easier for everyone and allowing server owners to add high quality mods, such as the A4, without scaring off a very large portion of their potential player base because suddenly they have to do a lot of work that simply would be automated in other software products that offer mod support.

Edited March 4, 2023 by FalcoGer

[SharpeXB]

No. Many people do not want mods on their install. They can screw up a lot of things. Mods are exactly that. Mods. ED should really not have to do anything to accommodate them. You are on your own with these. The idea of using them in MP is impractical because it’s not possible for many players to have them installed. 

[MadKreator]

I partially agree. I don’t think it’s anything that should be done on ED’s end, but a talented 3rd party/ community member/team may be able to create such an open source software for mod creators to up load mods to one place so they are easier to access for those that want them.  Personally I like mods such as civil aircraft, military aircraft, naval assets etc, not so much the flyable aircraft, ( although I do have a couple). When I hop on, say  Liberation or Retribution and it shows a whole list of mods that I didn’t even know existed, I think sometimes it would be nice if they were all in one spot for easy access. Such as steam workshop for modding Skyrim for example. Actual integration in to DCS, probably not ever going to happen, but the latter sure would be convenient. 

[upyr1]

I've been asking for a mod manager for a while, especially one that will keep mods up to date

[FalcoGer]

7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

No. Many people do not want mods on their install. They can screw up a lot of things. Mods are exactly that. Mods. ED should really not have to do anything to accommodate them. You are on your own with these. The idea of using them in MP is impractical because it’s not possible for many players to have them installed. 

That's exactly the point. It's impractical to many people to have them installed precisely because no such system to make it easy exists. Many other games with mod support offer such a system.

Those people that do not want mods are still free to choose not to install them.

I suggest to make it easier, not to force mods on people.

Also just because it is impractical right now that doesn't mean it's impossible. The grayflag servers run the hercules and uh-60 mods and they are routinely full. The rotorheads server run the uh-60 mod and they are also quite full a lot of the time. A mod manager would make getting the mods and keeping them up to date more easy, that is all. But more mods and more obscure mods means more and more work for users to keep things up to date or to find them in the first place. That is the part that I would like to be made more simple.

I could probably whip something up in a week or two, but I simply don't have the storage space or bandwidth to host such a service myself. There are probably terabytes worth of liveries out there.

Edited March 5, 2023 by FalcoGer

[SharpeXB]

33 minutes ago, FalcoGer said:

But more mods and more obscure mods means more and more work for users to keep things up to date or to find them in the first place

Indeed, Mods are a gigantic pain and after a while you’ll realize the best solution is not to bother with them at all. 

[FalcoGer]

You are free not to use them.

That said, every single module is installed as a mod. The difference is that there is such a repository and API to download and install them, making it easy and painless.

Edited March 5, 2023 by FalcoGer

[Furiz]

No thanks, don't want mods to auto install, if I want a mod I'll install it.

On the other hand a mod manager can be created for people that want to use such a mod.

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, FalcoGer said:

That said, every single module is installed as a mod.

Not really. You’re confusing official game content with actual mods. There’s a big difference.

[upyr1]

5 hours ago, Furiz said:

No thanks, don't want mods to auto install, if I want a mod I'll install it.

On the other hand a mod manager can be created for people that want to use such a mod.

 

The main problem I see with this is it might take forever to download the mods which is why I get not wanting to download a mod or livery, which I think there should be a way for mod designers to assign a stand-in asset. For example, someone designing an F-105 mod might have the Fitter as a stand-in. Though I do think it might be nice to have as an option

 

[SharpeXB]

6 hours ago, FalcoGer said:

You are free not to use them.

But I would be forced to if I wanted to play online, assuming this idea was actually used widely. The big problem with your suggestion is that it’s trying to make the use of mods “easy” and seamless. If that actually encouraged servers to incorporate these it would be a vast disservice to many people who want to participate in multiplayer and yet do not want the catastrophic mess of dealing with mods. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by SharpeXB

[shagrat]

Am 4.3.2023 um 08:01 schrieb FalcoGer:

A great many mods exist. Stuff like liveries don't require to be synchronized between servers and clients, but airframe mods and other assets do. And while some mods are of dubious quality or realism, a few stand out as exceptional and rival or even surpass ED's own assets, for example the A4-E community mod, SRS or the ground and naval assets made by the user currenthill among plenty more. Not including those high quality assets can therefore reduce the capability of designing scenarios and ultimately be less fun and/or realistic without them.

While I don't agree with the decision to not just include those high quality mods by default, I can understand the decision as they fall outside ED's quality control.

I therefore propose a middle ground solution that should work for most situations.

When joining a server, a list of required mods is already sent to the client and it is shown in the server list as missing required modules. I suggest that this goes one step further and that mods that announce themselves in this way also are required to have some sort of ID and version attached that can be used to directly download them from a mod repository, such as ed user files. If a user than tries to join a server, he or she may then be prompted if they want to fetch the required mods and be given the size and description for each instead of trying to hunt down the dependencies manually.

This would also require a type of mod manager, perhaps similar to or integrated with the module manager, within the game to enable or disable mods without going through the directories and moving/deleting folders so that mods don't affect servers or single player which aren't supposed to be affected.

As a bonus because the mods include a link to the repository, DCS can inquire about updates to the mod and automatically download them if the user desires such a thing.

Such a mod manager integration may then also be used to query users if they want to download optional mods, such as liveries, which are in use on the server.

While mod support exists on a basic level it is complicated and cumbersome to work with. Such additions would greatly enhance DCS by allowing to include mods easier for everyone and allowing server owners to add high quality mods, such as the A4, without scaring off a very large portion of their potential player base because suddenly they have to do a lot of work that simply would be automated in other software products that offer mod support.

 

I would rather see more of the extremely brilliant mods integrated into the DCS core, wherever possible. I am aware copyright and intellectual property is a pain, but there's plenty of stuff that has been created from scratch and would enhance the core assets tremendously.

The main advantage of a consistent core is that everyone can simply join a mission, without lengthy installs and downloads. Something like the A-4E Skyhawk mod with a bunch of liveries integrated can quickly take 15-20 minutes to download and install on a lower end connection. If that means all people joining the mission may have to wait for that one buddy in the flight of 4 that needs to download, it becomes a deterrence, quickly.

The idea with a simple list to help identify missing mods may be helpful, but ultimately if a mission requires the download of an additional 2GB of mods, I personally don't think I would even try it.

[MAXsenna]

On 3/4/2023 at 5:39 PM, MadKreator said:

I partially agree. I don’t think it’s anything that should be done on ED’s end, but a talented 3rd party/ community member/team may be able to create such an open source software for mod creators to up load mods to one place so they are easier to access for those that want them.  Personally I like mods such as civil aircraft, military aircraft, naval assets etc, not so much the flyable aircraft, ( although I do have a couple). When I hop on, say  Liberation or Retribution and it shows a whole list of mods that I didn’t even know existed, I think sometimes it would be nice if they were all in one spot for easy access. Such as steam workshop for modding Skyrim for example. Actual integration in to DCS, probably not ever going to happen, but the latter sure would be convenient. 

Not sure if you know, but both OvGME and it's successor Open Mod Manager supports Web repositories.

There's also a livery manager available. 

A full blown supported official launcher with a integrated mod manager/livery manager would of course be best. 

Cheers! 

[MadKreator]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

Not sure if you know, but both OvGME and it's successor Open Mod Manager supports Web repositories.

There's also a livery manager available. 

A full blown supported official launcher with a integrated mod manager/livery manager would of course be best. 

Cheers! 

I didn’t know that…. Nor do I know exactly what a web repository is let alone how to get  ovgme to interact with anything like that LOL I have been wanting to check out open mod manager though.. I’ve heard of it, wasn’t sure if its supported more than ovgme( is it worth it to switch over). I have liveries in saved games, backed up and accessible in ovgme and backed up along with the original downloads in another location lol Learned my lesson the first time I had to re-install all of them for 5 aircraft  

[MAXsenna]

I didn’t know that…. Nor do I know exactly what a web repository is let alone how to get  ovgme to interact with anything like that LOL I have been wanting to check out open mod manager though.. I’ve heard of it, wasn’t sure if its supported more than ovgme( is it worth it to switch over). I have liveries in saved games, backed up and accessible in ovgme and backed up along with the original downloads in another location lol Learned my lesson the first time I had to re-install all of them for 5 aircraft  

Web repository is like a file share, just "shared" over http or another protocol.
To set it up, short version, you need a webserver that has access to to files/mods. And you make a txt file that lists them. And then you just add the URL in the mod manager. This has to be done manually, so hopefully down the line, ED will make a real mod/liv manager.
Point being, this can be used by server admins, as long as they list the URL for needed mods in the server description.
Open Mod Manager is in development, same guy as OvGME, and right now he's open to adding more features/suggestions.
It might seem a little daunting at first first to setup, but it can be used for basically any game.
If OvGME works fine, I don't really see why you should switch, but the more users we are, the more active we can be in the thread/Github, and hopefully more features/fixes will be suggested for the ongoing development.


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[Ahogephilia]

I really want this feature.

Not all players fly only with "friends." Also, I believe different countries and environments have different ways of MP recruiting.

At least in my area, even something as simple as "476th target range" is often not available due to need to solicit mods for it.

(paid terrain DLC policy also... It may sound silly, but we have often teenage boys in Package flight, and they often don't have access to paid DLC.)

As a result, mission design is very restricted

Edited May 21, 2024 by Ahogephilia

[killjoy73au]

There's enough servers that allow mods to warrant having such a feature, good idea for those of us that like to incorporate what the community creates. And honestly not just servers but also user created mission/campaigns.

Edited May 21, 2024 by killjoy73au