Better AWACS callouts

[Inf]

I don't know how it works in the real world, but I find in-game AWACS radio chat so noisy that it's almost useless. If you're in an environment with multiple bogeys the radio becomes a constant stream of BRA calls. I'd like to see it:

•  prioritise calls based on the situation (if a bogey turns hot on you or comes within a set distance)
•  (not sure if realistic) give contacts an identifier so you know which contact they're talking about
• let you know when a contact disappears or is killed
• only bug you when the situation changes or you request an update
   

Something like  "bandit alpha, BRA 030, 45 miles, 20thousand hot, bandit bravo BRA 035 50 miles, 20thousand hot, bandit charlie BRA 095, 10 miles, 15thousand cold" ..... "bandit alpha now cold. bandit bravo now cold"  "bandit charlie splashed".

[MARLAN_]

If you're curious, you can find the real information on how it works here: [PUBLIC RELEASE DISTRO A] https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN33396-ATP_3-52.4-000-WEB-1.pdf - also look up P-877 for the Navy/AIC side of it (also public release)

I agree though, the current AWACS comm is ridiculous, its only "saving grace" is the BRAA spam is telepathic so not everyone hears it, it would be 10x worse if the current system wasn't telepathic.

Luckily most of AIC/ABM comm is public release, so there's no blockers for knowledge, ED just needs to improve it when they have allocate resources to that. It's one of those things that would be super nice to have, even the human controllers often would rather fly, so plenty of missions go without control.

For your information:

> prioritise calls based on the situation (if a bogey turns hot on you or comes within a set distance)

This is real, typically the AIC/ABM will just say something like "Bear, Single group, maneuver hot" but it depends on the situation.

> (not sure if realistic) give contacts an identifier so you know which contact they're talking about

Yes, this is realistic, groups are given labels, e.g. `single group`, or `north group`, or `lead group` (see the docs for all of the naming)

> let you know when a contact disappears or is killed

They would say either `faded` or `vanished` depending if there was weapons correlation or not.

> only bug you when the situation changes or you request an update

This is more of a complicated answer, but yes they will minimize comms as your proceed on your timeline and get closer unless its an important call (e.g. threat, cross court, untargeted, merge, etc.)

[Biggus]

Bumping this, because it's becoming more important with the modules available now and in the near future lacking datalink.

I'd be enormously grateful if bogey dope calls were more informative purely because we don't have an AI controller.  "Hot/cold/flanking" is fine for general awareness and seems to be fairly correct to real life, but without having a controller to talk to, I often find that it isn't informative enough to run an intercept with my radar on standby unless I'm in something with a situational awareness display and a datalink.  Adding a "track" callout with direction would be a massive upgrade with what I believe would be a fairly small amount of effort.  Something like "Bandit, 230 for 50, angels 18, track north-east".

But even better would be the ability to tell the AWACS that you are committing to a group called out via the F10 menu, and then to get greater detail. If more than one possible group exists to target, then select it via F10.

[upyr1]

I have read that  during the Vietnam war when possible they would identify the bandit I believe a MiG-21 was a blue bandit. 

[Nascar]

I would like to be able to put in a range filter. I don't get why it gives callouts for bandits 180 miles away before an enemy in threat range. It could also cut down on chatter. Another feature would be the AWACS can call for assistance when it's being threatened. 

[GGTharos]

Because there's no filter, you said it.

My partial ideal, to begin with:

Give a BRAASIT for the given contact if seen for the first time or beyond a certain range:

Bearing

Range

Altitude

Aspect

Speed

Identification (type of aircraft if known, making this realistic would require some work but the AWACS can be assumed to know the type)

Track (ie. bandit's heading in degrees)

When the contact gets closer, BRAA will suffice

 

Bonus stuff: 

Multiple frequencies for awacs, assigning controllers to various flights and responsibility zones

Responsibility zones

Tunable and automatic recognition of bandit entry into an AOR - ie. a 3 minute vector.  If the far end of the vector remains in the AOR for some amount of time, announce the bandit.  This immediately takes of reaction time for high vs low speed bandits as well, though it can be improved.

AWACS and other HVAA should have a default 'run away' behavior that can be tuned - ie. run to nearest fighters or SAM, as long as it is away from the bandits.   As well they could shut down the radar and drop into the notch.

Aircraft in DCS have TWS tracks - give them to the AWACS also so they don't have to constantly 'pop up' a new target if someone is popping in and out of radar contact before the track expires.

Make AWACS capable of classifying that some aircraft are in a group without having to resort to 'knowing' that they're in the same editor group - ie. learn to actually declare real groups.

Make AWACS capable of classifying things like CAPs by matching the track pattern to 'what looks like' a CAP, including knowledge of the aircraft type.

[FlankerKiller]

+1 to this. 

[HILOK]

in case you guys weren't aware, @Chump did a great job at improving awacs and wingman calls (based on davidp57's initial mod). it can be found here: https://github.com/chump29/DCS_Mod

[GGTharos]

Thanks for this, it's better than what we have now and with a little enhancement it could be much better.

[HILOK]

happy to help  some parameters can be adjusted to your needs. i recommend a mod manager to install it

[falcon_120]

Bump come on ED! Do something

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[Amarok_73]

Come on ED, it's here, You just need to pick it up!

Edited April 2, 2024 by Amarok_73

[TheFreshPrince]

I'm bumping this, because the AWACs in DCS is pretty lousy. The following video is in German, but it gives a nice, brief insight into the complexity:

 

[MrWolf]

On 3/23/2023 at 9:48 AM, MARLAN_ said:

If you're curious, you can find the real information on how it works here: [PUBLIC RELEASE DISTRO A] https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN33396-ATP_3-52.4-000-WEB-1.pdf - also look up P-877 for the Navy/AIC side of it (also public release)

I agree though, the current AWACS comm is ridiculous, its only "saving grace" is the BRAA spam is telepathic so not everyone hears it, it would be 10x worse if the current system wasn't telepathic.

Luckily most of AIC/ABM comm is public release, so there's no blockers for knowledge, ED just needs to improve it when they have allocate resources to that. It's one of those things that would be super nice to have, even the human controllers often would rather fly, so plenty of missions go without control.

For your information:

> prioritise calls based on the situation (if a bogey turns hot on you or comes within a set distance)

This is real, typically the AIC/ABM will just say something like "Bear, Single group, maneuver hot" but it depends on the situation.

> (not sure if realistic) give contacts an identifier so you know which contact they're talking about

Yes, this is realistic, groups are given labels, e.g. `single group`, or `north group`, or `lead group` (see the docs for all of the naming)

> let you know when a contact disappears or is killed

They would say either `faded` or `vanished` depending if there was weapons correlation or not.

> only bug you when the situation changes or you request an update

This is more of a complicated answer, but yes they will minimize comms as your proceed on your timeline and get closer unless its an important call (e.g. threat, cross court, untargeted, merge, etc.)

There's no dynamic campaign without this, that's for sure.

[TBarina]

Unfortunately chump29 has removed Awacs and Wingman Addons from his great DCS_Mod.

[TBarina]

I've modified Scripts\Speech\common.lua and NATO.lua for DCS 2.9.7.59263 in my DCS installation folder to reintroduce WIngman Addon's message spam functionalities. it seems to work flawlessly.
I've attached the files here. 
It is exactly what I was searching for.
Don't understand why ED doesn't take in account Chump29's great job. He is a genius...

Chump29WingmanAddonMod.zip

[Bazz_Mulder]

On 9/16/2024 at 12:40 PM, TBarina said:

I've modified Scripts\Speech\common.lua and NATO.lua for DCS 2.9.7.59263 in my DCS installation folder to reintroduce WIngman Addon's message spam functionalities. it seems to work flawlessly.
I've attached the files here. 
It is exactly what I was searching for.
Don't understand why ED doesn't take in account Chump29's great job. He is a genius...

Chump29WingmanAddonMod.zip 38.69 kB · 10 downloads

I would like to try it. Is that all what it takes to make it work, or do I need some other parts of the mod that are not available in dl section?

[TBarina]

Hi, you only need to replace those two .lua files.No other parts are needed.

Actually Chump29 has removed those parts contained in the AWACS and Wingman Addon in his DCS_Mod.

Probably because of some ED modications for managing AWACS' callouts that would force him to revise the code.

 

Since endlessly Wingmen's callouts  are very annoying i've taken the time to examine his code. It's relatively easy and self contained so I could extract and replicate it in the most recent version of those two files.

I don't have time though to patch for AWACS radio calls but patching wingmen is satisfactory to for now.

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2024 by TBarina

[Bazz_Mulder]

58 minutes ago, TBarina said:

I don't have time thogh to patch for AWACS radio calls but patching wingmen is satisfactory to for now.

Understood, thanks! AWACS patch would be great as it's always present when playing, but I get that it's time-consuming. Thank you for your dedication to make things better!

[Volator]

I'd also like to see AWACS/GCI giving optional vectors to tanker and to home base instead of just announcing their position relative to bullseye. Right now the DCS comm menu options even say "vector", but what you get is a bullseye position. (At least for western comms, it might be different for RedFor in DCS)

Edited October 18, 2024 by Volator