Clarification on LANTIRN roadmap item.

[Ignition]

58 minutes ago, Fromthedeep said:

How would it be accurate? The issue here is that they made a mistake and accidentally implemented LANTIRN symbology and LITENING video. They apparently have no data for the LITENING symbology specifically. That makes sense if whatever reference they are using doesn't clearly describe the pod or they are mixing together separate sources. That doesn't mean other functionality would also be inaccurate.

A block 40 is more accurate with LANTIRN than a block 50 from 2007. It will be better to not carry any pod to save weight and drag.

 

Also in the description of the web of the aircraft it says "In the ground-attack role, the F-16C’s sophisticated targeting and aiming systems enable it to deliver a wide range of munitions with great accuracy. These include specialized Targeting Pods (Litening pod and the AGM-88 HARM Targeting System (HTS)."

It doesn't mention any LANTIRN.

 

[Ignition]

30 minutes ago, tdk said:

...It made me confused. I'm aware the model of the pod is incorrect, maybe and the UI, but will the TV and FLIR image degrade if they change it back to LANTIRN?

The image quality should be worse. Its an old pod.

[Fromthedeep]

6 minutes ago, Ignition said:

A block 40 is more accurate with LANTIRN than a block 50 from 2007

There are plenty of pictures of Block 50s with LANTIRN in the mid 2000s.

 

6 minutes ago, Ignition said:

It will be better to not carry any pod to save weight and drag.

That's just a hyperbole.

7 minutes ago, Ignition said:

Also in the description of the web of the aircraft it says "In the ground-attack role, the F-16C’s sophisticated targeting and aiming systems enable it to deliver a wide range of munitions with great accuracy. These include specialized Targeting Pods (Litening pod and the AGM-88 HARM Targeting System (HTS)."

 

Clearly inaccurate description due to a mistake, that can happen in an Early Access project.

[Ignition]

Just now, Fromthedeep said:

There are plenty of pictures of Block 50s with LANTIRN in the mid 2000s.

I wonder which pod the AF would use in combat, I'm sure they would skip the LANTIRN.

2 minutes ago, Fromthedeep said:

Clearly inaccurate description due to a mistake, that can happen in an Early Access project.

My money wasn't a mistake back then.

[tdk]

6 minutes ago, Ignition said:

The image quality should be worse. Its an old pod.

I dunno, the LANTIRN pod should have gone through a lot of upgrades when it reached 2007. There are some vids that actually show acceptable images of LANTIRN in combat.

[TobiasA]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb tdk:

I dunno, the LANTIRN pod should have gone through a lot of upgrades when it reached 2007. There are some vids that actually show acceptable images of LANTIRN in combat.

They had a software update somewhere around 2000 iirc, which probably increased the overall quality. 

[Furiz]

29 minutes ago, Ignition said:

My money wasn't a mistake back then.

You seem to only read what is convenient for you to keep your naggin.

 

This is in the road map:

"It is also important to remember that all features of our Viper are in regard to a United States F-16CM Block 50, roughly M4.2+, operated in the 2007-time frame."

 

They found out that the info for the pod they had was indeed for the LANTRIN and not Litening pod, so now they are correcting that misunderstanding, are they doing something wrong here?

[Ignition]

4 minutes ago, Furiz said:

They found out that the info for the pod they had was indeed for the LANTRIN and not Litening pod, so now they are correcting that misunderstanding, are they doing something wrong here?

Not if they keep both pods or If ED tells the image quality is exactly the same, I don't really care.

I don't understand very well how ED mixed both pods, but well information from such things is not so easy to find.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Ignition

[skywalker22]

[Furiz]

3 minutes ago, Ignition said:

Not if they keep both pods or If ED tells the image quality is exactly the same, I don't really care.

 

So you don't care about realistic representation, you just want to be the best? That's why you are so mad?

SniperXR is coming for F-16 later.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Furiz

[NineLine]

51 minutes ago, Ignition said:

The image quality should be worse. Its an old pod.

We used some video references as well that were mistaken for a LITENING that were actually LANTIRN, as I understand it the quality wasnt that much different in this case. 

[TobiasA]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Furiz:

So you don't care about realistic representation, you just want to be the best? That's why you are so mad?

SniperXR is coming for F-16 later.

 

 

The one thing that annoys me is that they add capabilities and then take them away again because of realism or too complicated or whatever. 

If it is not realistic, then don't implement it. 

That being said, I appreciate correcting mistakes. 

vor 2 Minuten schrieb NineLine:

We used some video references as well that were mistaken for a LITENING that were actually LANTIRN, as I understand it the quality wasnt that much different in this case. 

So basically we have a LANTIRN disguised as a LITENING?

Edited March 30, 2023 by TobiasA

[Furiz]

Just now, TobiasA said:

The one thing that annoys me is that they add capabilities and then take them away again because of realism or too complicated or whatever. 

If it is not realistic, then don't implement it. 

As I see it, they had information that turned out to be wrong, can happen to anyone, so they are correcting.

[NineLine]

Just now, TobiasA said:

The one thing that annoys me is that they add capabilities and then take them away again because of realism or too complicated or whatever. 

If it is not realistic, then don't implement it. 

As we stated, it was a mistake and it is Early Access, we did not do it to tease or upset anyone and if we did that we apologize. 

[Ignition]

Just now, Furiz said:

So you don't care about realistic representation, you just want to be the best? That's you are so mad?

SniperXR is coming for F-16 later.

 

I want to be the best (I know I will never be) in DCS at least in some things. I know I'm very bad at another ones like air to air. I always try to do the things as correct and precise as I can.

I want a realistic representation FOR COMBAT scenarios, that's why I don't want the LANTIRN for this aircraft. I only care about combat and tactics.

About the Sniper now I'm in doubt really. We can only hope.

3 minutes ago, NineLine said:

We used some video references as well that were mistaken for a LITENING that were actually LANTIRN, as I understand it the quality wasnt that much different in this case. 

Ok, Thanks

[TobiasA]

vor 1 Minute schrieb NineLine:

As we stated, it was a mistake and it is Early Access, we did not do it to tease or upset anyone and if we did that we apologize. 

Well, things happen and nobody is perfect. 

Me neither, as you can read here from time to time...

I think it will be fine at the end. I trust in you to not leave us without a working pod.

[NineLine]

3 minutes ago, TobiasA said:

I trust in you to not leave us without a working pod.

Oh no, I think the pod will be better than it is now from what I am seeing them working on, I mean TV I personally do not use much. 

[Hobel]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb Furiz:

So you don't care about realistic representation, you just want to be the best?

What is realistic representation?  Is the litening missing a few functions and symbols, yes for sure!  But the real task, and that's what it's all about, is to display an image, and as far as I know, important functions like 

-white/hot
-TV
-zoom levels
-digital zoom
 -LSS 

Mostly correctly displayed, so in most cases you can work with it as it is intended for a modern f16c. 

Is that unrealistic now?

 On the other hand we have the lantirn which will come with a few limitations and we can no longer fully use some aspects of a 2007 f16.

  Just my personal opinion

Edited March 30, 2023 by Hobel

[Furiz]

7 minutes ago, Hobel said:

On the other hand we have the lantirn which will come with a few limitations and we can no longer fully use some aspects of a 2007 f16.

  Just my personal opinion

In my opinion with Lantrin, which is older and less capable pod, you don't lose any aspect of a 2007 Viper, since they were using Lantrin after all. We will get Sniper later, and remember Viper is still in EA, and in the future if ED gets access to more info a Litening pod as well.

[Radius]

2 hours ago, TobiasA said:

Was the original implementation as it is now pure science fiction? Than it should never have been there with the sniper pod being the primary target for development...

 

It wasn't pure science fiction, if you will, it was LANTIRN software on LITENING hardware ... with some guesses.

Please remember that the SNIPER was a huge "maybe" for quite some time after EA release, and they weren't publicly commiting to making it until last year. Also, nothing tells you they know any better about the SNIPER pod. In fact, they could know even less.

[Hobel]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb Furiz:

vor 25 Minuten schrieb Hobel:

 

In my opinion with Lantrin, which is older and less capable pod, you don't lose any aspect of a 2007 Viper, since they were using Lantrin after all. We will get Sniper later, and remember Viper is still in EA, and in the future if ED gets access to more info a Litening pod as well.

Nevertheless, the f16 equipped with litening is the one with more possibilities and these possibilities are not necessarily unrealistic and that is my point.

[Radius]

25 minutes ago, Hobel said:

What is realistic representation?  Is the litening missing a few functions and symbols, yes for sure!  But the real task, and that's what it's all about, is to display an image, and as far as I know, important functions like 

-white/hot
-TV
-zoom levels
-digital zoom
 -LSS 

Mostly correctly displayed, so in most cases you can work with it as it is intended for a modern f16c. 

Is that unrealistic now?

 On the other hand we have the lantirn which will come with a few limitations and we can no longer fully use some aspects of a 2007 f16.

  Just my personal opinion

 

Mostly correctly displayed you say ?

I'm yet to see an once of digital zoom here. Current zoom levels are absolutely perfect. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that's how digital zoom works, unless ED has implemented CSI technology into their LITENING pods.

I understand "Good enough" is company policy, but that doesn't even apply here. The current representation of the LITENING is grossly overperforming because you, in essence, have 18 lenses instead of two with 9 levels of digital zoom each.

[Hobel]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Radius:

Mostly correctly displayed you say ?

I'm yet to see an once of digital zoom here. Current zoom levels are absolutely perfect. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that's how digital zoom works, unless ED has implemented CSI technology into their LITENING pods.

I understand "Good enough" is company policy, but that doesn't even apply here. The current representation of the LITENING is grossly overperforming because you, in essence, have 18 lenses instead of two with 9 levels of digital zoom each.

Of course, the digital zoom is too perfect but the number of steps is still correct.

Such things, however, deviate from the actual topic, otherwise we can also start asking questions why the laser goes through the thickest clouds, which no tgp should actually be able to do, yet they all can, but that is another construction site.

[Radius]

5 minutes ago, Hobel said:

Of course, the digital zoom is too perfect but the number of steps is still correct.

Such things, however, deviate from the actual topic, otherwise we can also start asking questions why the laser goes through the thickest clouds, which no tgp should actually be able to do, yet they all can, but that is another construction site.

A relief the numbers increment in the right fashion indeed.

I don't think this is off topic, as the LANTIRN should have quite some digital zoom pîxelisation at its narrowest zoom level.
I hope this is simulated. Drawbacks of the sensors are as important as features are. And since there is precedent in the F-14B, it would be a very bad look if ED's take was too perfect.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Radius

[Hobel]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Radius:

I don't think this is off topic, as the LANTIRN should have quite some digital zoom pîxelisatioin at it's narrow zoom level.
I hope this is simulated. Drawbacks of the sensors are as important as features are.

This has nothing to do with the actual topic because such things will be implemented sooner or later anyway and pixelated digital zoom is one of them, it has nothing to do with litening or lantirn itself.