F-4E Phantom Development Report - DCS Newsletter 31/03/2023

[Gunfreak]

On 7/3/2023 at 11:37 PM, Baco said:

Well there ain´t any other module on the immediate horizon so its surely next in line.

If its not out before 2024 then there is no new module till next year. The F4U corsair looks like is still far. Maybe the Kiowa, but  it looks like its only maps for the rest of 2023.

We don't know that as there are several 3rd part developers that don't say crap about what they are doing so we don't know the status their moduals (Kiowa and Corsair as examples) 

[Baco]

20 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

We don't know that as there are several 3rd part developers that don't say crap about what they are doing so we don't know the status their moduals (Kiowa and Corsair as examples) 

20 years of being an ED customer grants me an "educated guess" kind of knowledge    

But don´t get me wrong, I really wish i was mistaken.

[Gunfreak]

4 minutes ago, Baco said:

20 years of being an ED customer grants me an "educated guess" kind of knowledge    

But don´t get me wrong, I really wish i was mistaken.

Don't get me wrong, it's just  fools hope that I'll get to fly the Corsiar before the ICBMs starts flying. Depending on how much it left. Its likely the F4 is next, which I'm perfectly happy with as the F4U and F4 are the planes I'm waiting for this year.

[Omega417]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

Don't get me wrong, it's just  fools hope that I'll get to fly the Corsiar before the ICBMs starts flying. Depending on how much it left. Its likely the F4 is next, which I'm perfectly happy with as the F4U and F4 are the planes I'm waiting for this year.

So who is going to write a book about a survivor of a nuclear apocalypse who is trudging the wasteland to try and find a Developer's PC that has the only working copy of the F-4E Phantom II on it so they can play it before dying of radiation poisoning?

But along the was discovers that the true Phantom was the friends he made along the way, and gives it all up to stop the evil 1 eyed villain from achieving his plans of domination. 

[1130]

So, the strike eagle affected the publishing of the phantom uh?   Yeah, 31 Dec is still 2023.  who started this culture of "SOOOOOOOOOOOON"? Gaijin? Cyberpunk2077? Raz? someone got to be blamed for this.

[dcsil2pilot]

3 hours ago, 1130 said:

So, the strike eagle affected the publishing of the phantom uh?   Yeah, 31 Dec is still 2023.  who started this culture of "SOOOOOOOOOOOON"? Gaijin? Cyberpunk2077? Raz? someone got to be blamed for this.

I think someone said on their discord it was partially due to the F-15E release...but after seeing the F-15E release, please take as long as you need. For real, get it right the first time! I want the F-4E now, but I'd rather wait and get it good than get something okay and going to be patched to good. 

[Temetre]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb 1130:

So, the strike eagle affected the publishing of the phantom uh?   Yeah, 31 Dec is still 2023.  who started this culture of "SOOOOOOOOOOOON"? Gaijin? Cyberpunk2077? Raz? someone got to be blamed for this.

Culture of soon? That was always a thing in game development, especially when developers want to deliver quality.

Frankly, the will to delay is usually a sign of quality, compared to releasing it early.

[Stackup]

6 hours ago, 1130 said:

So, the strike eagle affected the publishing of the phantom uh?

2 hours ago, dcsil2pilot said:

I think someone said on their discord it was partially due to the F-15E release

Here's the Discord post.  Still not sure why they and others insisted the F-15E release had no effect when the fact that it was slotted ahead of the F-4 caused HB to increase the scope of the initial release.  Sure sounds like an effect to me.  Of course at this point, it doesn't really matter as long as the quality is there on release.

[Raisuli]

11 minutes ago, Stackup said:

Here's the Discord post.  Still not sure why they and others insisted the F-15E release had no effect when the fact that it was slotted ahead of the F-4 caused HB to increase the scope of the initial release.  Sure sounds like an effect to me.  Of course at this point, it doesn't really matter as long as the quality is there on release.

So...phaser pods and photon torpedoes in the early release?  Awesome!

Feature Creep.  Yeah, I get that.  HB's F-4E is really just "Hello World" with a few extra 'features'.

[DSplayer]

18 hours ago, Stackup said:

Here's the Discord post.  Still not sure why they and others insisted the F-15E release had no effect when the fact that it was slotted ahead of the F-4 caused HB to increase the scope of the initial release.  Sure sounds like an effect to me.  Of course at this point, it doesn't really matter as long as the quality is there on release.

I would say the F-15E had no direct impact on the F-4E release with what Cobra reflecting that HB wanted to put more features into the EA release F-4E and it wasn’t directly affected by the F-15E’s release. Indirectly? Maybe.

[Trooper117]

If they are including more features before release then that's a good thing... I can wait, no problem.

[cfrag]

19 hours ago, Stackup said:

Here's the Discord post.  Still not sure why they and others insisted the F-15E release had no effect when the fact that it was slotted ahead of the F-4 caused HB to increase the scope of the initial release.

I read that as meaning:

"Some time ago, we looked at our integrated internal release calendar. We realized that the F-15E was slotted before us, and knowing that there usually are multi-week gaps between major module releases, that led us to attempt something that was perhaps foolish: we committed to add some new features that are now hitting us badly and that we need to complete before we can release the Phantom".

Note that the Discord message is very economic with facts: it mentions that at some point in time the Mudhen was slotted to release before the Phantom - but it does not say when that order check was done and when the decision was made to feed the feature creep monster. Had it been recently, that would have been mentioned, so there's a fair chance that Cobra is referring to an event well in the past.

Not that it matters. HB release high quality products, and I'm happy to wait for their release (actually, that's a lie: I'm unhappy to wait, but more happy to wait for good quality than receive something of average quality sonner). On the other hand, parsing their Discord post is like acolytes discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin: idle speculation just to keep us busy - and entertained  

I do wish, however, that they took a page from OnReTech's (of Sinai map fame) playbook, and engaged with us more -- right here on ED's forums. 

 

[Manhorne]

Three years from now we will still be seeing the phrase "SOON" for the Phantom...The truth is they jumped the gun on this thing from the start in every conceivable way and for a whole host of reason in and out of their control but nearly all foreseeable IMHO...

Edited July 15, 2023 by Manhorne

[felixx75]

7 hours ago, Manhorne said:

Three years from now we will still be seeing the phrase "SOON" for the Phantom...The truth is they jumped the gun on this thing from the start in every conceivable way and for a whole host of reason in and out of their control but nearly all foreseeable IMHO...

 

3 years? 

[Manhorne]

1 hour ago, felixx75 said:

3 years? 

Show me any proof it wont be 3 years....Their word and time line has been bad and wrong from the very beginning on it. All we get is "SOON" which could be 6 months or 20 years depending on what they are gauging it against..

Edited July 15, 2023 by Manhorne

[Raisuli]

4 hours ago, Manhorne said:

Show me any proof it wont be 3 years....Their word and time line has been bad and wrong from the very beginning on it. All we get is "SOON" which could be 6 months or 20 years depending on what they are gauging it against..

 

Sweet!  That gives me enough time to up my skill level on some existing mods.  Might even be a good enough (virtual) pilot to do the Phantom some justice by then, and with three extra years of development it will be awesome!

Incidentally, since you're so sure about this, what do we get if you're wrong?

[RevampedGrunt]

1 hour ago, Raisuli said:

Sweet!  That gives me enough time to up my skill level on some existing mods.  Might even be a good enough (virtual) pilot to do the Phantom some justice by then, and with three extra years of development it will be awesome!

Incidentally, since you're so sure about this, what do we get if you're wrong?

Hey hey, maybe he can get everyone the Phantom on release.

[unknown]

3 hours ago, RevampedGrunt said:

Hey hey, maybe he can get everyone the Phantom on release.

Sorry, i couldn't resist  Release is probably 5+ years ahaed of us  EA release... who knows. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by unknown

[Rodeo]

On 7/15/2023 at 7:17 AM, cfrag said:

I do wish, however, that they took a page from OnReTech's (of Sinai map fame) playbook, and engaged with us more -- right here on ED's forums.

I couldn’t agree more. ORT did an amazing job with communication and user input and questions. 

[RevampedGrunt]

13 hours ago, unknown said:

Sorry, i couldn't resist  Release is probably 5+ years ahaed of us  EA release... who knows. 

 

Out of early access release and the start of early access release. Either wait it'll be released in some form to the public before a complete release.

[AzraelKurita]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb RevampedGrunt:

Out of early access release and the start of early access release. Either wait it'll be released in some form to the public before a complete release.

Call me crazy but for the Moment I would be satisfied if the Phantom would be the released without EVERY Capability........just to start practicing.

Sure.....It should be possible to use Startup Procedures and fly from A to B.....but thats all for me....for the Moment. 

[RevampedGrunt]

8 hours ago, AzraelKurita said:

Call me crazy but for the Moment I would be satisfied if the Phantom would be the released without EVERY Capability........just to start practicing.

Sure.....It should be possible to use Startup Procedures and fly from A to B.....but thats all for me....for the Moment. 

I'm in the same boat. It'd be like playing MSFS so I wouldn't necessarily mind not doing anything combat related. 

[Aussie_Mantis]

Honestly, I'm hoping the features were things like TISEO, or maybe even targeting pod functionality, or modelling how the AGM-65s work with the thermal channel or something cool like that.

What I hope they didn't do (purely a matter of preference) is try and implement a strobe RWR instead of one with an alphanumeric code for each- or at least I hope they give us the option to switch between the two. I hate strobe RWRs.

[Temetre]

TISEO will likely be only in the DMAS, and the DSCG is coming first.

The 'feature creep' wasnt about a strobe RWR, Cobra said afterwards that they dont have one in the works.

 

[streakeagle]

On 7/17/2023 at 4:15 AM, Aussie_Mantis said:

What I hope they didn't do (purely a matter of preference) is try and implement a strobe RWR instead of one with an alphanumeric code for each- or at least I hope they give us the option to switch between the two. I hate strobe RWRs.

One problem I have with DCS modules is that they are almost always the latest, most advanced variant rather than the types that were historically significant. The F-4s I want to fly are the F-4B/C/D/E/J variants that flew in Vietnam and over Israel. The principal RWRs utilized by F-4s in combat were the older strobe type.

I have no choice but to settle for whatever Heatblur and other 3rd parties provide. But my preference is for aircraft versions and equipment types employed in combat that are historically correct. In the case of the F-4, that means Vietnam and Yom Kippur era variants, which did not have digital alpha-numeric style RWRs.

A mid-70's F-4E with slats and TISEO is close enough for me to enjoy it in Vietnam era missions, but I would much rather have early hard wing F-4Es with the original gun muzzle or even better yet, F-4B/C/D/J variants with the appropriate field changes to accurately reflect what was flown in combat.