[NO LONGER PASSES IC] Improved Contact Dot Spotting (Updated v1.1)

[Why485]

FYI, this mod still passes IC as of today's 2.8.4.39259.1 openbeta patch.

[Roostyla]

Really great mod and a smart way to incorporate changes without game breaking other areas. I play in 1440p med to low graphics with 2xMSAA. It makes DCS much more comfortable to play without having to lean in too close to the monitor and creaking my neck over hours! Less faffing about with the FOV zoom too. top work!

Hopefully ED can take on your idea, possibly tweak it a bit more and then make it the standard after some testing. After that then lock down the IC, not before!

[Padinn]

Honestly at 4k this is  so much better - I cannot state how much better it is. It needs further tweaking IMO for some edge cases, but I could actually find people flying with me yesterday and that is usually a MASSSIVE challenge. 

[Krippz]

So I've used this mod for about two days in VR (Reverb G2 user). While I will agree it is easier to see planes it's also easier to see other things in the air like missiles. That's a big no for me as I currently spend most of my DCS time in multiplayer. Maybe with some tweaking so I can't easily spot missiles in the air from 15km's away I will deem it acceptable. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Krippz

[Why485]

18 minutes ago, Krippz said:

So I've used this mod for about two days in VR (Reverb G2 user). While I will agree it is easier to see planes it's also easier to see other things in the air like missiles. That's a big no for me as I currently spend most of my DCS time in multiplayer. Maybe with some tweaking so I can't easily spot missiles in the air from 15km's away I will deem it acceptable. 

The missile thing is unfortunately something only ED can fix. The only information I have to work with in the shader is the object's position.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Why485

[pastranario3]

hace 17 horas, CapnCoke dijo:

I want to make a point regarding that screenshot (could you provide your monitor size just to make sure?) but there are also things I want to make clear. Regarding about seeing contacts at 60 km (32 nm), the mod actually prevents seeing contacts more than 15 miles, and they start transparent and gradually gets darker the closer they are so technically it should be a positive thing for your case. Regarding for VR, see my last post but yes, there is limit depending on your vr hardware. For VR users, I recommend not using supersampling or any techniques that blends pixels like AA. Hardware wise, there will be a limit where pixels is not clear enough for distance far away. I set my valve index to use 100% steamvr resolution, no AA, and a pixel density of 1. If I want further advantage, I'll drop resolution to 85%. This advantage is one of the problem we're facing in this sim because we're trying to use hardware and settings to gain an advantage in a study sim. We're currently in a situation where we pit a mig21 vs an f5e in a dogfight and both pilots are in WVR but in reality one of them is blind because he's using a 27 inch 2k monitor. Regarding your screenshot, I'm assuming its a big monitor since you mentioned TV but I could be wrong. I'll explain that part at the end because there are some things I want to address what I feel the mod is really trying to push.

• First, it tries to create a level playing field for players who really need it because of hardware limitation. Note that I don't really like using spotting missions because being placed in a mission where you know where the aircraft is against a totally blue background is different than being vectored to a target 25 miles away, using radar to find them, then visually trying to acquire them.
• Second, it tries to keep the engagement as realistic as possible. You should use your radar in BVR and your MK1 eyeballs when it gets close. So the mod makes targets 14nm away (25km) fully transparent. Can be a disadvantage for some players, but on the other hand provides a realistic advantage knowing that the dots you see are contacts that are <14 miles away from you enhancing your SA.
• Third, targets in visual range where an actual fighter pilot can see irl shouldn't be pitch black unless there's a sunset behind it (I guess?). That's why fading is introduced in this mod. Scaling and spotting conditions (weather, lighting) is the correct way to fix it.
• Once you merged, you shouldn't lose visual of your target unless you are looking away for extended period of time. Currently if you merge at a really high speed, you go high and get separated by 3 miles, you can lose visual of your target because it turned into a pixel against the forest background even if it has a white bare metal camo. Scaling is the correct way to fix that but currently to mitigate this issue, downres to 1080p to have a bigger pixel displayed on your screen to easily track or reacquire your target after a pass. This mod allows you to keep your resolution and have the same pixel size as 1080p.

Now there are two sims that I know which are tackling this problem differently. One of them is an f16 simulator that uses smart scaling based on research documents https://apps.dtic.mil/docs/citations/ADA414893. Instead of dots, aircraft model is scaled. The size of the model is determined for eg if at this range "can you tell its heading and aspect?" then the model size will be big enough to answer that but not to IFF. However, it's not perfect and it feels exaggerated imo for small monitors, and it was addressed by OP here https://why485.itch.io/smart-scaling-demonstration. The other sim is WW2 sim and aircraft visibility is determined by the weather conditions, clouds, and lighting. It's also not perfect but its a step in the right direction. I think this mod tried to also "simulate" this by fading the dots the farther it is.

 

DO I NEED THIS MOD?
IMO it depends on your hardware, settings, and your experience playing this sim. This mod fixes an issue that does not apply to everyone, and for those who don't need it is not going to miss out on anything, and won't be handicapped when fighting a player that uses it (No unfair advantage when both parties can see each other in WVR).
Yes if you cannot play missions without labels. If you acquired your target with radar using a cold war jet (HUD is basically a gunsight) and try really hard to visually acquire your target within 10 miles but still failed. Lose sight of your target frequently during a dogfight that is kept within 3-5 miles and 90% of your time is focused on him, 10% to check your six. Tons of flight hours but terrible spotting but your teammate somehow keeps spotting enemies. 

No if you're playing on 1080p. Correctly dialed up your VR settings. Playing on a large monitor and you are sitting close to it (32" 1440p is a Yes, anything larger depends on resolution and how close you sit so better to test the mod).

If you're using a 24" 1080p monitor then you're out of luck, from my experience your spotting ability will be between 27" 1440p player and 27" 1440p downrez player. The mod won't improve it and its up to ED to introduce scaling to level the field.

These are my opinion based from my experience. You should give this mod a try and run a couple of missions/multiplayer and form your own.

 

I want to expand on the hardware side regarding monitors as it might explain why people voted worse for me or no difference. I would like to point out that using the mod might seem "worse" because it fades out contacts far away rather than keeping it pitch black. Therefore if you have no issue seeing pixel dots, then using this mod might be a disadvantage for you, but it will be "closer to realism".

Below are pictures with two monitors that I have, both are Samsung Odyssey G7. One of them is 27", the other 32". Both are 1440p. They both have the same pixel counts but the bigger the monitor, the more "stretched" the pixel is to fit the whole monitor screen. This is why (in general for gaming/content consumption) if you're upgrading from 1080p 24" to 27", you should always go 1440p as 1080p looks terrible with 27". Please note that I am using reshade with curves.fx and amdfidelitycas.fx for sharper pixel (I recommend it to help with spotting) and forgot to turn it off when taking these pictures. Also, it might look different in my perspective than yours. Also the pictures are taken at the same distance, the hud looks bigger on 32" because its just a bigger monitor.

27 inch 1440p, 1440p ingame resolution, vanilla - visual on enemy 23 miles away but pixel dot is really small you have to zoom in the screenshot to see it. Anyone who plays with their monitor further away from them will technically be blind. You basically have to pixel hunt.

27 inch 1440p, 1080p ingame resolution, vanilla - visual on enemy 23 miles away. Pixel is more pronounced.

32 inch 1440p, 1440p ingame resolution, vanilla. Much better than 27" (first screenshot). This is due to the pixel being bigger than 27inch monitor.

32 inch 1440p, 1080p ingame resolution, vanilla. Not much difference from 1440p res. Might look a bit blurry than 1440p res but it's thicker so its easier to spot. In multiplayer scenario it's slightly better than 1440p resolution from my experience when scanning around (was more consistent in different environments). Anyone who used to play downscaled on 32" vanilla and moved back to 1440p res after installing the mod won't expect much (This is the case if they just loaded a quick spotting mission, my conclusion at the end will clarify what I mean). That could explain why some voted "no difference" or "worse for me" because they can't see further than 14 miles. (Next picture explains what I mean).

32inch 1440p, 1440p ingame resolution with mod - no visual on enemy 23 miles away. Mod addresses the issue of seeing targets at unrealistic range.

32inch 1440p, 1440p ingame resolution with mod - tally on enemy 14 miles. However, it's opaque. Usually you'd be in this situation if you acquired your target in radar and flying towards it, or was vectored in by GCI. You have to work hard by scanning the horizon. Also note that its much easier to see in my perspective than the picture due to loss of quality.

32 inch 1440p, 1440p ingame resolution with mod - tally on enemy 9 miles. Pixel is darker.

I didn't include screenshots of 27" 1440p with mod (me being lazy). Basically from my experience the pixel dot visibility is the same as downscaling to 1080p. Now you don't have to sacrifice your overall graphics fidelity anymore from downscaling. Only downside is you lose the advantage of seeing planes more than 14 miles away. I want to point out the dot clarity from using this mod in WVR is the most pronounced with this monitor size and resolution, and that's important because its the most common monitor size and resolution. That's why a lot of players are complaining about spotting in DCS and having to resort to downscaling.

Do I prefer using the mod?

Yes. The mod offers the greatest benefit to 27" monitor as dots is the same size as downscaling to 1080p. I currently main with 32 inch unless I sim in the other room that has my 27" monitor. Even though the screenshot shows the 32 inch 1440p vanilla looking pretty good, it's not always the case as those pictures were taken in a clear perfect environment comparing to a busy combat environment. Before the mod, I fly pvp servers with my resolution downscaled to 1080p. Downscaling to 1080p resolution also had flickering issue where dots disappear at certain fov at certain distances (I think its caused from 2x MSAA). Now with the mod I can get the benefit of 1080p spotting while running 1440p resolution, and that also fixed the flickering issue I had. Also, losing track during "on the deck" dogfight is no longer a frequent issue.

 

You are detecting at 23 miles, when in reality the maximum in reality would be about 8 miles. 

This is absurd in 2d. I am not referring to the mod but to the distance that is being detected in 2d. Ed would have to double check the distances.

[Sardines]

13 hours ago, N0XID said:

Hello.

Has anyone else also experienced significant performance losses in some cases with using that mod? For me definitely yes. Especially when I fly close to the ground and there is a lot of forest and meadows to see. Especially on the Cold War PvP server.

Too bad because the recognition is noticeably better for me but i cant use them. My FPS is good all the time but I get very strange stuttering.

Seeing how this mod adjusts some numbers in the shader file basically, I'm curious if it's really the mod having enough of an impact to cause stuttering. Did anything else change for you around the time you installed the mod? Perhaps the latest patch introduced something for you? Or it a clear difference you've checked by enabling/disabling the mod?

[CapnCoke]

1 hour ago, pastranario3 said:

You are detecting at 23 miles, when in reality the maximum in reality would be about 8 miles. 

This is absurd in 2d. I am not referring to the mod but to the distance that is being detected in 2d. Ed would have to double check the distances.

It seems I misunderstood which point you're referring to as there's currently a lot of confusion regarding what this mod is trying to achieve including that pilot. From my testing the mod reduces viewing distance to around 13-14 nm or 24km but it's very transparent and only way to visually spot that is from knowing where to look either from your radar or GCI.

You're right but the 60km view distance is not reserved to 2d only but also VR depending on hardware, for eg this user was able to spot at 40nm (74km) in VR https://youtu.be/UIgB7b7mTUo?t=410. There's currently no code that restricts VR viewing ranges as 2D and VR uses the same technique.

As the OP mentioned, there's two problems he's trying to address, 1. The contact visibility in WVR, 2. The range. The issue is that not everyone has the first problem because of their hardware/settings (some people might just stick to vanilla and downscale to 1080p to keep their max range viewing distance advantage). For eg one user commented that using this mod with VR makes contacts look like giant bricks. In his case I'm assuming his VR settings is setup correctly to spot without using mods as his individual pixels weren't blending from use of MSAA or SS (I've spent countless hours setting up my VR for DCS and understand how it works). In this case if he engages a user at 20 miles that is using this mod, he would be able to see him first in VR while the person he is engaging has to get close to atleast to 10 miles.

I think Problem #2 can easily be fixed by ED for now. They just have to research an acceptable max range for contact dots to appear and implement that. They can always work on upgrading it later (implementing conditions that increases/decreases range for eg lighting/weather/glint). I think Problem #1 is where ED is going to struggle figuring out, and for now as a bandaid should atleast add an IC exception/option in server settings for admins to allow this mod (aslong as the mod is unaltered to prevent actual cheating).

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by CapnCoke

[AngleOff66]

From the wiki(yeah I know) for Giora Epstein

"He soon gained the nickname "Hawkeye" due to his extraordinary eyesight. Epstein was allegedly able to spot aircraft at a distance of 24 miles (38,4 km) — nearly three times further than a normal pilot."

So, if that has any accuracy, then a fighter sized aircraft could be spotted at about 9 miles?

 

[pastranario3]

hace 3 horas, CapnCoke dijo:

.

You're right but the 60km view distance is not reserved to 2d only but also VR depending on hardware, for eg this user was able to spot at 40nm (74km) in VR https://youtu.be/UIgB7b7mTUo?t=410. There's currently no code that restricts VR viewing ranges as 2D and VR uses the same technique.

 

 

 

This is not the case in vr, what is showing is the mirror on the monitor, it has nothing to do with what is inside the headset. That is why exactly what the video shows is a representation of the monitor in 2d.

[CapnCoke]

38 minutes ago, pastranario3 said:

This is not the case in vr, what is showing is the mirror on the monitor, it has nothing to do with what is inside the headset. That is why exactly what the video shows is a representation of the monitor in 2d.

The commentator was wearing the headset and spotted the plane and said "I can already see the a10". If that and my experience on VR is not enough then honestly I don't know what to say.

[PeevishMonkey]

2 часа назад, AngleOff66 сказал:

Epstein was allegedly able to spot aircraft at a distance of 24 miles (38,4 km)

Firstly, the key word here, as for me, - "allegedly"

Secondly, there are a lot of unique persons in the World. But there is a wellknown 'God created men, Col. Colt made them equal' (c) 

It seems to mee, we need to use statistically averaged values...

 

[Toastfrenzy]

As a 4k flyer, just starting out in DCS, to say I have been disappointed to even know that this is a thing....having spent the best part of 10 years with WT and it's dot's I thought things would be different in DCS. Similar dot\spotting issues it seems.

 

I've been struggling to spot other aircraft that the map shows are within a couple of miles, added this MOD and test flew the Normandy 2 map and and was amazed that I could see other planes with out straining my eyes or neck. The euphoria felt when seeing a simple dot!

I'm a 100% prop WWII flyer, at the moment, so this MOD is not a deal breaker for me.

A couple questions;

How do I keep up to date with this MOD's revisions?

It's been mentioned earlier that how to mange the MOD after an ED DCS update - how is this manged as I haven't' had to mange MODs before?

[Why485]

3 minutes ago, Toastfrenzy said:

How do I keep up to date with this MOD's revisions?

Check the thread once in a while, though I don't have any plans to update it any further. I'm mostly just keeping an eye out for what ED ends up doing and updating the OP accordingly.

4 minutes ago, Toastfrenzy said:

It's been mentioned earlier that how to mange the MOD after an ED DCS update - how is this manged as I haven't' had to mange MODs before?

Every time the DCS Updater patches the game, it'll overwrite the files from this mod, and you'll need to reinstall it. That's really all there is to it if you want to keep it simple. You can use generic mod managers like JGSME to enable/disable the mod between patches but if you're not running anything else and your install is simple, I don't think that's totally necessary.

[Toastfrenzy]

4 hours ago, Why485 said:

Check the thread once in a while, though I don't have any plans to update it any further. I'm mostly just keeping an eye out for what ED ends up doing and updating the OP accordingly.

Every time the DCS Updater patches the game, it'll overwrite the files from this mod, and you'll need to reinstall it. That's really all there is to it if you want to keep it simple. You can use generic mod managers like JGSME to enable/disable the mod between patches but if you're not running anything else and your install is simple, I don't think that's totally necessary.

Thanks for your reply and a great MOD too.

I'm into keeping it simple,

Cheers!

[ExocetYVR]

Great mod, thank you for the development and it's a big improvement to the experience playing at 1440p QHD. I especially appreciate that it properly culls dots that are well beyond visual range - I was seeing dots for aircraft I couldn't even pick up on the F-16's radar but could coordinate through datalink.

A question: can this be loaded in as a mod (i.e., installed in the 'Saved Games' DCS directory) or must it be installed directly in DCS' install location overwriting the default shader file?

[Amarok_73]

6 minutes ago, ExocetYVR said:

must it be installed directly in DCS' install location overwriting the default shader file?

This.
Suggested is to use mod manager like OVGME or JSGME to install it, as after the update, this file will be overwritten with the default one.

 

[Biggus]

On Tuesday, I posted that I was going to play with it a bit more, but at first glance it was an improvement.

After spending a few more hours, I'm going to say that as a 3440x1440 user, "improvement" is an understatement.  I'm now no longer spotting tiny black specks at 30nm against the sky.  But I'm not losing track of things I'm merged with quite as easily.  There's enough definition to draw my eye to the movement of a plane against the background when I'm in close.  It's still not easy to keep track of things if I take my eye off them, but I feel as though I've got a chance now of finding them again if I lose them.

I don't doubt there's still some tweaking to be done.  But this is a massive step forward.

[Chriz6662]

spotting airplanes is better, but rockets are so big and better to spot and track. When used in Multiplayer I see it as cheating, because i can see all rockets easily as a big dot.

[JG15_Hans]

On 4/16/2023 at 8:12 PM, Why485 said:

What is it?

This mod aims to address two specific issues with the current implementation of contact dots in DCS:

1. Dot size is always one pixel, which means smaller dots at higher resolutions, and that the lower your resolution, the easier it is to find contacts.
2. Dots are rendered too far. As long as an objects model is not culled, it will get a dot drawn on it. DCS' draw distances can go out to >40 miles, making it possible to see the dots of an aircraft before even your radar can pick it up.

This is accomplished by adding these new rules to how dots are rendered:

1. The size of the dot gets bigger with screen resolution, using the reference resolution of 1920x1080.
2. The dot becomes fully opaque at distance of ~6 miles.
3. The dot is completely transparent at a distance of ~18 miles.
4. When between those two extremes, the dot will fade at an exponential rate.

Download

The mod is available on the DCS user files here:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3330454/

How to install

Unpack the "Bazar" folder in your DCS World root directory. This will overwrite the "dots.fx" file. By default, this is located in "C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World".

As of April 21 2023's 2.8.4.39259.1 openbeta patch, this still passes IC.

FAQ

So what does this actually mean?
1. It means that dots are no longer visible from extreme ranges. You won't see planes 20-50 miles away.
2. Playing a high resolution (in this mod, defined as a screen height of >1080) you should have roughly the same "dot acuity" as somebody playing at 1920x1080. This corrects the common practice in DCS of people reducing their resolution to make the dots bigger.

Are ground vehicles easier to see?
Generally, no. At high resolutions, the dots become rectangles, since half the 2x2 dot is now under the ground. The dot also fades with distance the same as aircraft (the shader can't tell the difference), so you won't be able to spot vehicles from 30 miles like you could before.

Why did you pick the ranges you did?
Experimentally gathered data, from a paper that is infamous on this forum and won't be named, found that T-38s were spotted around 4-6 miles, depending on conditions. Knowing where the target already is can boost this detection distance by about 5 miles. Based on that information, I tweaked the opacity values and formula such that I was able to consistently find a dot around 4-6 miles, and could find and track distant dots (which are faded to ~50% transparency by this point) at around 10 miles, when I already knew where to look.

Are dots completely invisible past 10 miles?
Not completely invisible, but they are extremely faint. You'd have to already know they were there to find them, and they are very easy to lose. By about 15 miles they are basically impossible to see.

Do I need to turn on labels to use this?
No, the dot system in DCS is completely independent of labels. There is some confusion around the label system having a couple "dot" settings, but what those do is draw a label with a little . over the target. Labels are (at present) not obscured by clouds or the cockpit frame.

The dots in DCS meanwhile are a completely separate function and do not interact with the label system at all. They are always on, cannot be turned off, and cannot be modified by players without messing with the shader itself as this mod does.

To eliminate the chance of confusing labels with the dots, I recommend turning off labels completely when testing this mod.

What makes 1080p special?
In my experience, the dot size at 1080p resolutions is big enough to be useful, but not so big that it becomes distracting and strange looking. Therefore it was chosen as the reference resolution for which I wanted higher resolutions to have parity with.

Does this mod do anything if I already play at 1080p?
The only difference you'll notice is that contact dots fade away as they get further.

Does this mod work on ultrawide?
Yes. The only thing the mod takes into account for sizing the dots is the vertical resolution.

Does this mod address the ability to see dots through clouds?
No. I did make a brief attempt to see if I could fix that, but it's likely something that Eagle Dynamics will have to fix themselves the correct way.

If I zoom into a dot that's far away, does that cause it to fade in?
No, the dot opacity is based on a hard distance calculation. FOV has no effect on the opacity of dots.

Does this mod address the exploit of raising the FOV to max in order to enlarge dots?
It does not. The old impostor mod I made many years ago did this, but I wanted to keep this mod as simple as possible. I might add it in later if there is demand. As with the impostor mod, I'd likely just fade the dots over some field of view.

What happens if I play at a resolution under 1080p?
Dots will still increase in apparent size at resolutions lower than 1080. Initially I wanted to either try and make the dots "subpixel" by rendering them appropriately smaller at low resolutions, but this isn't feasible without engine changes. I also tried fading the dots proportionally when under the reference resolution, but this created problems with flickering models.

The biggest advantage that low resolutions used to give was seeing dots from tens of miles away. Since the dots are now guaranteed to fade with distance, I figured it was best to just let the low resolutions keep their slightly larger dots.

Does this mod pass IC?
It does, but it probably shouldn't! This mod changes dot rendering in a way that can both advantage (but mostly disadvantage) the player over others in a multiplayer environment. If you join a server with this and you are running a higher resolution than 1080p, you'll have somewhat improved WVR spotting, at the cost of "BVR spotting".

Update v1.1

See the below link for more information.

 

 

Interesting that this actually passes IC Gonna give it a try later tonight. My 1440p flying should be pleased..

[Tuturuu]

Thanks I must say it's been a while I played DCS this much, i have been able to replay the BF109 campaign by reflected and spot the famous FW190 crossing us at the begining without even having to enable the dots or downscaling my resolution (2K). Truly game changer.

I think it's already a way improved system, I can spot from 10 miles without having to strain my eyes and when I lose track it's really because of clouds, sun, etc... I don't feel like i just go bamboozled by the dot system.

I think in a perfect world, the only think left would be a very slightly super minimal upscaling of the shape of the plane but It's already very good. Thanks again

[Why485]

As of today's 2.8.4.39313 hotfix, this still passes IC.

I've also added the following question to the FAQ in the OP since it's been getting asked enough that it's worth addressing.

Quote

Why can I see missiles now?

Unfortunately the only information I have to work with in the shader is the object's position. The shader is completely unaware of the model that is under it, so all the logic applies equally to all visible objects, regardless of their size. For objects larger than the average fighter, this works itself out and isn't an issue. However for smaller than average objects such as missiles, this can look a bit strange. Fixing this requires Eagle Dynamics to provide more information to the shader such as an object size.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Why485

[deeleyer]

17 hours ago, Amarok_73 said:

This.
Suggested is to use mod manager like OVGME or JSGME to install it, as after the update, this file will be overwritten with the default one.

 

Each update a folder called backup is created with everything you had before updating that is not DCS native installation from the Program Files/folders (not the saved games). Just move again from that folder to the destination one.

It's just another option if you don't like mod managers.

Edited April 23, 2023 by deeleyer

[Callsign JoNay]

8 hours ago, Chriz6662 said:

spotting airplanes is better, but rockets are so big and better to spot and track. When used in Multiplayer I see it as cheating, because i can see all rockets easily as a big dot.

I wouldn't call it cheating, because you are getting the same spotting ability that 1080 users and many VR users have had for years.

[MIghtymoo]

Awesome mod, and don’t forget it is also an improvement for spotting ground targets.

Had a great time in the Hind on the infamous Crocodil Hunting Grounds today…