[NO LONGER PASSES IC] Improved Contact Dot Spotting (Updated v1.1)

[Fizzle]

Not sure another anecdote is helpful in any way at this point, but I find this to be a massive improvement with a Varjo Aero at max ppd. 

[Genberi]

Mod is something that must be applied for ww2 and cold war servers, otherwise we have to use graphics braking filters like reshade. However I voted: "Seems worse to me", because with a current parameters I completely losing visibility of target in the close-to-mid range. As people wrote, need to increase the distance to 35-40nm. 

ED, kindly ask you to take this script in considiration, as it will gratefully improve our game experience.

[Why485]

3 hours ago, Genberi said:

I completely losing visibility of target in the close-to-mid range.

It's not that the mod makes this worse, it's that the mod makes how difficult it is to see the the 3D models more apparent. Depending on the properties of your screen, it's possible that when the dot is switched off (it's controlled by the LOD system I think?) the plane under it is much smaller than the dot was, making it difficult to track.

A native ED solution would ideally not have this problem and be able to smooth the transition from the dot to the 3D model.

[Hunter Joker]

What a great mod! Finally I can play in 2k or even 4k and not be completely blind. There'sca way to reduce (via options) the big block that I see when I play in VR? In any case I hope that ED after the big improvement that come with MT will bring something like this mod on core game cause spotting in WWII and Cold War at the moment is a big problem. With over 5k € of hardware I must play in 1080p and only 2D to see something and to be in par with other players.

Inviato dal mio BLA-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk

[ricktoberfest]

It’s unfortunate that something like this is necessary. I actually stopped playing WW2 and early Cold War mostly because of the spotting issues when you don’t have radar to guide you. All we really want is a level playing ground and the fact that some people are saying this gives an advantage to VR, while others are saying the exact opposite shows how much of an issue this is. As a RiftS player I can tell you that spotting at any distance without this mod is almost impossible for me, even when I know roughly where to look. This has made it possible for me to enjoy multiplayer again. 

[Khangirey]

Is this usefull for VR players? I currently have a reverbg2

[Gunjam]

An uneven playing field when it came to spotting in multiplayer, due to exploiting the use of low resolution, is one of the main reason I've taken a long break from DCS.

I know ED quality of life updates are glacial at best, and seeing those quotes from one of the developers explains a lot, but IMO spotting needs an improvement like this mod, and has needed it for years.

[Why485]

As of the patch released today, 2.8.4.39731, this mod still passes IC.

[Hunter Joker]

Still working? It seems to me no anymore...

 

[Sarowa]

4 minutes ago, Hunter Joker said:

Still working? It seems to me no anymore...

 

Updating the game probably overwrote your dots.fx. You need to re-add the mod file.

[ricktoberfest]

12 hours ago, Khangirey said:

Is this usefull for VR players? I currently have a reverbg2

Try it. You can always delete it if it doesn’t help you. 

[Padonis]

I feel much better, at shorter distances I can recognize the enemy and not wonder if the dot is a friend or not. Great job, one small file and it greatly improves what the game has been missing for a long time. I have a 2K monitor and two additional screens for the cockpit.

[Sile]

Am 1.5.2023 um 17:23 schrieb YoYo:

@Why485

I checked it in version 1.1 in VR, vanilla, ok, it's completely unsuitable for VR users . I see a big dot in the distance, a pixelated square. At least on this level as vanilla, it's unsuitable for VR. The square is too big (I'll add that I fly in 3156 x 3088 pxt in VR so with pretty good settings).

At least for now, I'm deleting it. Maybe it's worth adding that this is a mod for 2D only. However, it would be nice if someone modified it for VR. However, it must have different settings here what I saw.

...

 

 

Just tried the modded dots.fx in in VR with my G2 (OpenXR) at 100% und 1.0 PD.

It's like you describe. I find the dots way to big. Big pixelated squares that show at about 20nm with high transparency, get darker when approaching and hide the aircraft till they suddenly vanish at 1.5 nm. Before they vanish they are nearly completely black, hiding the aircraft. Is this intended?

Unfortunately on screenshots the effect and size isn't visible.

So i see the improvement for 2D but not for VR in my case. But maybe someting is wrong on my end?

Edited May 5, 2023 by Sile

[lipas70]

 

There is a problem with this mod. When the enemy launches the rocket, it looks as if a second plane suddenly appeared next to it (and sometimes a third one if it fires the second rocket). Missiles should be barely visible or not visible at all to the observer, especially at such a distance (5 - 10 miles).

 

[Harlikwin]

On 5/1/2023 at 9:23 AM, YoYo said:

@Why485

I checked it in version 1.1 in VR, vanilla, ok, it's completely unsuitable for VR users . I see a big dot in the distance, a pixelated square. At least on this level as vanilla, it's unsuitable for VR. The square is too big (I'll add that I fly in 3156 x 3088 pxt in VR so with pretty good settings).

At least for now, I'm deleting it. Maybe it's worth adding that this is a mod for 2D only. However, it would be nice if someone modified it for VR. However, it must have different settings here what I saw.

The first two screenshots are image zooms. It may seem small here, but the dots in VR are way too big.

Original picture:

 

Thats funny, My VR dots look nothing like this, far smaller and more subtle. varjo Aero, I forget the res 4k ish. 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Harlikwin

[YSIAD_RIP]

Very nice when tested using Warbirds and dog fights.

Giving this thread a bump for the weekend. More users should try the Improved Dots Mod and vote. 

The poll Results from at least 1000 could help ED prioritize.   

[Sile]

Maybe a important find vor VR Users (G2) who want to try the mod. 
I did some more testing in VR because a friend reported not seeing ridiculously big dots that i do in VR with the G2 despite using nearly identical settings (100%, PD 1.0) except 2D Resolution.

The dot size in VR seems to depend on the setting "Resolution" for the 2D Resolution and the state of the VR Mirror Window.

1) System Options - Resolution. Set to e.g. 1280x1024. Maybe smaller than 1920 x 1080 works.

AND 

2) VR - VR Mirror Options - USE DCS System Resolution set to ON

3) Restart DCS - Mirror should start in a bordered Window on the Desktop

With 3440x1440 i get big dots. With 1280x800 i get smaller dots in VR. And mod is usable.
Maybe the 2D Resolution - of the VR Mirror? - is relevant here.

Couldn't test more, but for me it only works when DCS starts in a small bordered window after setting 2) which is why i recommend the manual restart of DCS.
Only after manual restart DCS started reliably in a window on my system. Maybe because i still had set "Fullscreen" in System Options... 
 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Sile

[Why485]

16 hours ago, Sile said:

Maybe a important find vor VR Users (G2) who want to try the mod. 
I did some more testing in VR because a friend reported not seeing ridiculously big dots that i do in VR with the G2 despite using nearly identical settings (100%, PD 1.0) except 2D Resolution.

The dot size in VR seems to depend on the setting "Resolution" for the 2D Resolution and the state of the VR Mirror Window.

1) System Options - Resolution. Set to e.g. 1280x1024. Maybe smaller than 1920 x 1080 works.

AND 

2) VR - VR Mirror Options - USE DCS System Resolution set to ON

3) Restart DCS - Mirror should start in a bordered Window on the Desktop

With 3440x1440 i get big dots. With 1280x800 i get smaller dots in VR. And mod is usable.
Maybe the 2D Resolution - of the VR Mirror? - is relevant here.

Couldn't test more, but for me it only works when DCS starts in a small bordered window after setting 2) which is why i recommend the manual restart of DCS.
Only after manual restart DCS started reliably in a window on my system. Maybe because i still had set "Fullscreen" in System Options... 

That's a very interesting find. I guess the gScreenParams globals are set independent of whatever VR is doing.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Why485

[Dodge]

On 4/26/2023 at 6:46 AM, JohnnyST said:

Yes, I confirm, on airplanes, too. The dot size is also too big on the HP Reverb G2. I changed the point size multiplier in line 84: float2 scaledDotSize = onePixelSize * sizeMultiplier * controlPixel;

Looks better.

Thank you for the tip. I've edited the dots.fx file as indicated and the 'spotting' doesn't look like 'brick/blocks' (large) and feels much better in my instance (also a G2 user with a monitor resolution of 3440x1440).

 

For others who are interested.... It's line 84 in the dots.fx file (here's a snippet of what I've edited)

===Snippet===

    // The entire screen in clip space actually goes from -1 to 1, a distance of 2.
    //float2 scaledDotSize = onePixelSize * sizeMultiplier * controlPixel * 2;
    float2 scaledDotSize = onePixelSize * sizeMultiplier * controlPixel;

===========

Edited May 7, 2023 by Dodge

[Why485]

17 hours ago, Dodge said:

For others who are interested.... It's line 84 in the dots.fx file (here's a snippet of what is mentioned

===Snippet===

    // The entire screen in clip space actually goes from -1 to 1, a distance of 2.
    //float2 scaledDotSize = onePixelSize * sizeMultiplier * controlPixel * 2;
    float2 scaledDotSize = onePixelSize * sizeMultiplier * controlPixel;

===========

FYI what these kinds of edits will do is break the pixel perfect alignment. I've been thinking about releasing an unapologetically non-pixel aligned version of the mod which would produce more accurately sized dots, but it would require MSAA in order to work correctly. This similar to how the first release of the mod worked (albeit unintentionally), but it breaks down quite badly if you don't have 4X MSAA enabled.

[YoYo]

1 hour ago, Why485 said:

4X MSAA enabled.

4xMSAA is a performance killer for every VR.

[Why485]

11 minutes ago, YoYo said:

4xMSAA is a performance killer for every VR.

It's a performance killer in 2D too. It's why I released the current version which works correctly without MSAA.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Why485

[Dodge]

6 hours ago, Why485 said:

FYI what these kinds of edits will do is break the pixel perfect alignment. I've been thinking about releasing an unapologetically non-pixel aligned version of the mod which would produce more accurately sized dots, but it would require MSAA in order to work correctly. This similar to how the first release of the mod worked (albeit unintentionally), but it breaks down quite badly if you don't have 4X MSAA enabled.

Thank you you for the additional information

In my particular instance, I'm using 2xMSAA

[KoN]

On 4/17/2023 at 11:04 AM, BIGNEWY said:

We have raised the issue of this passing integrity check to the team. 

I suspect labels.lua / dots will need to be added to the IC

Thank you 

We get a reply yet nothing about your going to fix this dam problem .  . 

On 4/17/2023 at 11:59 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Mods will still work, but they should not be passing pure integrity check. 

I have mentioned spotting to the team already. 

thank you

FIX THE PROBLEM .

Maybe we should boycott you like Bud-light . lol ..... Maybe your start fixing things . 

Ten pages about the spotting issues in DCS . Wow . !!!! 

Another combat flight simulator had the same problem only few years back . Same old people complaining about the spotting issues . Nothing was getting done . One Sunday afternoon an event that takes place every three months were the server is full to its max 80 players full real settings best of the best online campaign . WAS Empty . or very little players . 

When asked what's happened why so little players the answer was WE cant see targets they disappear . 

Within Three months and a POLL asking is there a problem with spotting and a 90% YES came back . It was fixed . 

We the DCS community have spent $100s if not $1000s of dollars on this product . It deserves looking into and fixing . 

Edited May 8, 2023 by KoN

[KoN]

On 4/17/2023 at 3:54 PM, Why485 said:

This is a very old image, but the dot system hasn't changed since I took this screenshot.

I think that's bad.

 

Yes just goes to show ED have done nothing about the ever increasing spotting problem .