reported Multithreading: Flipping between F10 and F1 Causing intense, and lasting screen-tearing in VR

[Recluse]

Interesting!!!  I have used the ALT-TAB trick in the past for FPS decreases, but it never seemed to work for me with the F10 issue.  Not sure how long I held it for, but usually, I would wait until I observed the FPS coming back and then switch back to DCS.

 

FOR ME, the F10 issue totally disappeared when MSAA was turned off (though that is not everyone's experience).

[chichowalker]

MSAA off is not an option. Only solution here is that ED fix the problem.

[Recluse]

4 hours ago, chichowalker said:

MSAA off is not an option. Only solution here is that ED fix the problem.

Indeed. A temporary workaround is all.

[Magic Zach]

Alt+tab doesn't fix the issue, neither does putting the headset to sleep and rewaking it.  Like said above, only fix is for ED to fix it.

[_Mals_]

Got the same issue. But it seems to happen only in the F-14 for me. At first it was only in the Levant MP server but since the last update it seems to happen in SP too (I have a rift S, 3070ti, i5-9600k)

I'll post a Track tomorrow

[RealDCSpilot]

Maybe it's the old VRAM overflow issue. People with more than 8GB won't be able to replicate this. You guys could monitor your VRAM usage and check what is going on when your are switching between cockpit and F10 map.

[Bio]

I decided to give it another look with MSI afterburner.

Still in VR, Pico with Virtual desktop at Ultra (2736x2736) SteamVR as OpenXR runtime.
A10CII Syria Air-to-Ground mission, just set the plane in autopilot and waited a bit, switched to map and back to cockpit.
System: RTX 3070 8gb, 5800x @4.5, 32gb ram, m.2 drive

I got more questions than answers.

From the screenshot i marked with an arrow where the map switch is done on the GPU usage.
Various weird things happen after F10.

- GPU usage goes up
- FB usage goes down, shouldn't it go up instead ?
- VD usage goes down, shouldn't it go up or stay the same instead ?
- BUS usage goes up, kind of makes sense but still weird. I probably don't really understand this one
- Memory usage goes slightly down. This is super odd
- Heavy power usage fluctuation but overall power usage down

The last point is the weirdest of all, higher gpu usage but lower and more unstable power consumption?

Could it be it's a CPU issue where DCS is trying to do some weird stuff with textures and asks the GPU to do useless work with memory that takes frame time from rendering ?
 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Bio

[Whiskey11]

On 6/12/2023 at 2:56 AM, RealDCSpilot said:

Maybe it's the old VRAM overflow issue. People with more than 8GB won't be able to replicate this. You guys could monitor your VRAM usage and check what is going on when your are switching between cockpit and F10 map.

FWIW, I have a 3090Ti and my this issue causes my Reverb G2 to crash... the tracking still works, but it stops displaying in the headset.  I know the tracking works still because of the Mirror running on the monitor...  I get this most frequently on Sinai (really the only map I've played since this patch came out) and it's particularly noticeable in the Viggen and F-14.  Didn't have any issues in the F-16, and haven't flown the Mirage 2000 or AV-8B to see if it's specifically a Heatblur module related issue...  The Log file says the headset displays are disconnecting...

 

2023-06-14 04:04:19.658 INFO    VIGGEN (46244): FOLDERID_SavedGames: C
2023-06-14 04:04:19.658 INFO    VIGGEN (46244): Custom cartridge file found! C
2023-06-14 04:04:19.659 INFO    VIGGEN (46244): FOLDERID_SavedGames: C
2023-06-14 04:04:19.659 INFO    VIGGEN (46244): Custom cartridge file found! C
2023-06-14 04:04:19.659 INFO    VIGGEN (46244): FOLDERID_SavedGames: C
2023-06-14 04:04:19.660 INFO    VIGGEN (46244): Custom cartridge file found! C
2023-06-14 04:04:19.660 INFO    VIGGEN (46244): FOLDERID_SavedGames: C
2023-06-14 04:04:19.660 INFO    VIGGEN (46244): Custom cartridge file found! C
2023-06-14 04:04:19.661 INFO    VIGGEN (46244): FOLDERID_SavedGames: C
2023-06-14 04:04:19.661 INFO    VIGGEN (46244): Custom cartridge file found! C
2023-06-14 04:04:20.589 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Opening audio device "{0.0.0.00000000}.{80a56e80-0027-4253-b15f-2e0d39347ef4}"
2023-06-14 04:04:20.589 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Speaker layout: auto
2023-06-14 04:04:20.590 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Driver reports 2 channels with mask 0x3
2023-06-14 04:04:20.590 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Using 2 channels at 48000 Hz
2023-06-14 04:04:20.590 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Channel layout: Headphones/Stereo
2023-06-14 04:04:20.612 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Opening default audio device.
2023-06-14 04:04:20.615 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Speaker layout: forced_stereo
2023-06-14 04:04:20.616 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Driver reports 2 channels with mask 0x3
2023-06-14 04:04:20.616 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Using 2 channels at 48000 Hz
2023-06-14 04:04:20.616 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Channel layout: Headphones/Stereo
2023-06-14 04:04:20.656 INFO    APP (Main): Device unplugged: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{136181b8-714f-452a-8755-ed55399c9616}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
2023-06-14 04:04:20.738 INFO    APP (Main): Device plugged: \\?\DISPLAY#HPN36C1#5&30f0f42b&0&UID4355#{866519b5-3f07-4c97-b7df-24c5d8a8ccb8}
2023-06-14 04:04:20.849 INFO    APP (Main): Device plugged: \\?\DISPLAY#HPN36C1#5&30f0f42b&0&UID4355#{10910c20-0c64-4172-9409-add3064c0cad}\color
2023-06-14 04:04:20.969 INFO    APP (Main): Device plugged: \\?\DISPLAY#HPN36C1#5&30f0f42b&0&UID4355#{e6f07b5f-ee97-4a90-b076-33f57bf4eaa7}
2023-06-14 04:04:21.078 INFO    APP (Main): Device plugged: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.1.00000000}.{78b44337-7447-477c-a858-b16e588bd51d}#{2eef81be-33fa-4800-9670-1cd474972c3f}
2023-06-14 04:04:21.188 INFO    APP (Main): Device plugged: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{136181b8-714f-452a-8755-ed55399c9616}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
2023-06-14 04:04:21.315 INFO    Dispatcher (Main): Stop
2023-06-14 04:04:25.374 ERROR   ED_SOUND (24752): IAudioClient::GetCurrentPadding failed: 0x88890004 (AUDCLNT_E_DEVICE_INVALIDATED)
2023-06-14 04:04:53.424 WARNING LOG (16976): 1 duplicate message(s) skipped.
2023-06-14 04:04:53.424 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): Closing current flight data recording...
2023-06-14 04:04:53.478 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): Successfully saved [C:\Users\chris\Documents\Tacview\Tacview-20230613-203206-DCS-Through_The_Inferno_SINAI_v1.0.0.zip.acmi]
2023-06-14 04:04:53.478 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): End of flight data recorder.
2023-06-14 04:04:53.481 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Opening audio device "{0.0.0.00000000}.{80a56e80-0027-4253-b15f-2e0d39347ef4}"
2023-06-14 04:04:53.481 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Speaker layout: auto
2023-06-14 04:04:53.481 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Driver reports 2 channels with mask 0x3
2023-06-14 04:04:53.481 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Using 2 channels at 48000 Hz
2023-06-14 04:04:53.481 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Channel layout: Headphones/Stereo
2023-06-14 04:04:53.504 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Opening default audio device.
2023-06-14 04:04:53.506 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Speaker layout: forced_stereo
2023-06-14 04:04:53.507 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Driver reports 2 channels with mask 0x3
2023-06-14 04:04:53.507 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Using 2 channels at 48000 Hz
2023-06-14 04:04:53.507 INFO    ED_SOUND (Main): Channel layout: Headphones/Stereo
2023-06-14 04:04:53.534 INFO    WWT (Main): Export stop!
2023-06-14 04:04:53.581 WARNING SCENE (50700): Scene was removed with 3 alive objects
2023-06-14 04:04:53.582 WARNING SCENE (50700): Scene was removed with 14 alive lights
2023-06-14 04:04:54.320 INFO    TERRAIN (Main): lSystem::CleanScenes()
2023-06-14 04:04:54.369 INFO    ASYNCNET (Main): messages tracked: 9366037
2023-06-14 04:04:54.402 INFO    VISUALIZER (50700): Stopped collection of statistic.
2023-06-14 04:04:54.402 WARNING SCENE (Main): Scene was removed with 6230 alive objects
2023-06-14 04:04:54.540 WARNING SCENE (Main): Scene was removed with 665 alive lights
2023-06-14 04:04:54.561 INFO    VISUALIZER (Main): DCSScene initialized
2023-06-14 01:26:43.000 ERROR_ONCE  (): 
2023-06-14 04:04:57.366 INFO    VISUALIZER (50700): DCSSceneRenderer initialized
2023-06-14 04:04:57.367 INFO    EDCORE (Main): Create boot pool.
2023-06-14 04:04:57.384 INFO    EDCORE (Main): Created boot pool: n:16
2023-06-14 04:04:57.398 INFO    EDCORE (Main): (dDispatcher)enterToState_:3
2023-06-14 04:04:57.933 INFO    DXGUI_WIN_ADAPTER (Main): resize main window to [1418, 1390]
2023-06-14 04:04:57.933 INFO    APP (Main): Device unplugged: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.1.00000000}.{78b44337-7447-477c-a858-b16e588bd51d}#{2eef81be-33fa-4800-9670-1cd474972c3f}
2023-06-14 04:04:58.001 INFO    APP (Main): Device unplugged: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{136181b8-714f-452a-8755-ed55399c9616}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
2023-06-14 04:04:58.070 INFO    APP (Main): Device plugged: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.1.00000000}.{78b44337-7447-477c-a858-b16e588bd51d}#{2eef81be-33fa-4800-9670-1cd474972c3f}
2023-06-14 04:04:58.164 INFO    APP (Main): Device plugged: \\?\SWD#MMDEVAPI#{0.0.0.00000000}.{136181b8-714f-452a-8755-ed55399c9616}#{e6327cad-dcec-4949-ae8a-991e976a79d2}
2023-06-14 04:04:58.278 INFO    ASYNCNET (Main): Current ping: 63.5ms
2023-06-14 04:04:58.278 INFO    EDCORE (Main): (dDispatcher)enterToState_:5
2023-06-14 04:04:58.283 INFO    APP (Main): application shutdown
2023-06-14 04:04:59.667 INFO    ASYNCNET (Main): disconnected: 0 
2023-06-14 04:04:59.667 INFO    ASYNCNET (Main): disconnected from server
2023-06-14 04:04:59.830 INFO    ASYNCNET (Main): client has stopped

 

[RealDCSpilot]

@Bio Okay, VRAM allocation shows full usage all the time. It's already maxed out, but this is showing allocation only. There is an option in Afterburner to set VRAM usage per process to see the real values like in this older post of mine:

It basically shows that the F10 map needed almost an extra of 1GB VRAM to be rendered. I guess what's happening on your end is Windows going into memory sharing mode and never gets out again. It means that ressources are constantly swapped from RAM into VRAM and back at a certain point, when the limit is reached. This stresses the system on CPU and all data paths (BUS) very much. To get a bit deeper you should try to test a simple empty mission, like those hot start instant missions to see if you can start at a point where VRAM isn't used to the max. And also use the Afterburner option for VRAM usage per process.

@Whiskey11 Yeah, that's strange with your GPU... But first, you should take TacView out of the equation.

Just to clarify, i don't have that problem at all.

Edited June 14, 2023 by RealDCSpilot

[Wizard1393]

I have this issue aswell. I've been flying mostly on Syria and with the F-14/18 and Apache. This issue has been around for quite a long time for me. Long before the MT release.

It happens often when checking the F10 map and going back to F1 view, the whole rendering is very weird and stuttery and won't go away.
It also happens very often if killed and/or respawning in a new slot, same Aircraft type or not.

Pretty much always avoiding the F10 map for now due to this. Complete DCS restart is the only thing that helps.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Wizard1393

[edmuss]

Witnessing the same thing on my end, perfectly smooth performance graph and 70-80 fps in the aero, open F10 map and bang 40 fps, performance graph frametimes have trippled in amplitude.  Non-recoverable from my attempts barring restarting DCS.

There is also the light blooming effect every so often after closing the F10 map, I'm not sure if this is related though?

edit: This is very reminiscent of the VRAM overflow that was killing reprojection, it was fixed by a change to the WMR openxr runtime which prevented DCS from allocating ALL of the VRAM so much so that there wasn't enough left to perform the reprojection.

During testing last night I saw that the shared GPU memory usage rocketed from the normal 0.2-0.4gb to over 2gb, I think this is what's causing the slowdown as DCS is forcing the GPU to utilise system RAM.

@BIGNEWY I very much doubt you will be able to replicate this as you have 24gb VRAM.

Edited June 14, 2023 by edmuss

[_Mals_]

10 hours ago, edmuss said:

edit: This is very reminiscent of the VRAM overflow that was killing reprojection, it was fixed by a change to the WMR openxr runtime which prevented DCS from allocating ALL of the VRAM so much so that there wasn't enough left to perform the reprojection.

Is that a setting only with WMR? I don't remember to have seen this setting with my Rift S?

[edmuss]

On the G2, the reprojection VRAM overflow was largely alleviated with the advent of open composite removing the VRAM overhead of steamvr. Additionally the WMR runtime changes completely eliminated it.

If you have an abundance of VRAM then you'll likely not see the problem, especially with the low resolution of the rift S. It's also possible the the oculus runtime incorporated better VRAM management than WMR did originally.

[Aarnoman]

I have the same issues utilizing OpenXR + MT DCS OpenBeta on Reverb G2/3080Ti setup.

Alt-tabbing for 10-15 seconds does appear to resolve this when it occurs.

[Magic Zach]

for goofs i turned msaa back on today, and the rate at which this bug occured skyrocketed.  I had been running with it off for a few months, and putting it to x2 tripled the rate it occured and made the alt+tab method, which before fixed the issue only some 50% of the time, impossible to fix the issue with msaa at x2

[BIGNEWY]

We have asked others to check their systems for it, I am waiting for feedback from them. 

thanks

[JesterIsDead]

I have noticed this recently as well. This is occurring mostly in the F-14 for me. MSAA on and off. Alt+tab helps but sometimes takes several tries. This is both in MT and Open beta ST.

[Maverick_NL]

Same here.. happens in multiplayer especially on busy servers. Example 4ya PVE Syria.
Happens for me in OB MT, Alt + tab then go back in will resolve this but not always. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Maverick_NL

[=GR= Coyote]

I can also confirm this is happening in Syria and Sinai.

HTC VIve pro2 4090.

[crazyave]

Same problem for me and my buddy on two totally different systems.  When in muiltiplayer it causes desync with the server from the client side as well.

[prianik]

В 22.07.2023 в 13:46, BIGNEWY сказал:

We have asked others to check their systems for it, I am waiting for feedback from them. 

thanks

When can we expect a fix for this problem, thanks?

[BIGNEWY]

25 minutes ago, prianik said:

When can we expect a fix for this problem, thanks?

We need to be able to reproduce it before we can work on a fix. 

 

[Maverick_NL]

Its easy to reproduce, start DCS (VR) -> go to a multiplayer example 4ya PVE Syria or another populated server. fly around a bit. pres f10 a few times go back to f1 and it will happen. 

[SimonR944]

I would say its hard to reproduce without the same equipment, what i have found though is that disabling XMP and manually setting Memory speed to 3600Mhz - helped with the stuttering a little.

My concern is the fact that having a 3070TI is struggling to get 30 FPS in VR on the lowest of settings even in MT.

[The_Nephilim]

On 7/28/2023 at 6:30 AM, BIGNEWY said:

We need to be able to reproduce it before we can work on a fix. 

 

Well I am not expert but would a trk or log file be helpful Newy? I mean I know it might help but nobody seems to be posting those just chiming in say yep it happened to me.. I posted in a simialr thread of this issue and posted my log files but I did NOT experience the stutters or whatnot going from F10 to F1 and back several times..

 

I am not sure but maybe something with your setups or mods or something..

Edited August 8, 2023 by The_Nephilim