DCS: Kola Discussion

[Whiskey11]

43 minutes ago, norman99 said:

How do the old Cold War SAM sites look?

I'm particularly interested in the SA-5 sites, but 2/3's were common in the area too. Almost all of these have been abandoned and are completely overgrown now, but I was hoping Orbx would model them in a usable state.

The vast majority of them are blank areas... the SA-5 sites may have the primary roads and a few secondary roads, but the revetments and elevations for the radar sites, the minor roads and locations for radars or launchers are all missing...  Some of the SA-2 and SA-3 sites are in areas where they are 100% covered in trees (scenery delete allegedly works in the Mission Editor) and the terrain is... well... not always optimal.  The "Super S-300" site near Olenegorsk (68 08 41.87N 33 30 14.24E) is occupied by civilian buildings... and many EWR sites are not represented.

Basically, it's more like the Caucuses in that basically the site locations "exist" but they basically are 100% undetailed... some don't even have roads.

Heck, Severomorsk 2 airbase is just missing... completely.  Many others missing too, but that one is a pretty big omission given that it's right next to Severomorsk 1 and Severomorsk 3...

[norman99]

27 minutes ago, Whiskey11 said:

Basically, it's more like the Caucuses in that basically the site locations "exist" but they basically are 100% undetailed... some don't even have roads.

Thanks. It's still EA, so plenty of room for improvements I guess. Ultimately I'm hoping for SAM sites similar to the Syria map with roads, revetments etc. 

[Ironhand]

2 hours ago, rob10 said:

I feel your pain.  Running 1-1.3 MB/sec for me.  24 hour download.  Glad I managed to be home to get it going this morning so I can play this weekend.

I’m jealous. It’ll be Monday, at best, before I have it downloaded.

[Whiskey11]

36 minutes ago, norman99 said:

Thanks. It's still EA, so plenty of room for improvements I guess. Ultimately I'm hoping for SAM sites similar to the Syria map with roads, revetments etc. 

I'm hoping for SAM sites better than Syria, to be honest.... Syria's SAM sites are not well modeled relative to the real sites and the revetments look out of place on the map.  Really hoping for better on Kola.

[Raisuli]

4 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Bodo its on the sparse detail area, on this first EA Stage Rovaniemi, in Finland, seems better as home base.

I looked at Rovaniemi and Monchegorsk, and yes, they're higher detail.  Boring, but higher detail.

Ran my first mission; a pre-dawn raid out of Bodø to Bjerkvik, which currently has streets but no town.  Some BadGuys^TM of unknown origin have set up a base there, complete with SA-11s.  Landing ships, some helos...  Results were mixed; going to do it again with a different loadout; last time I did something similar I waited longer to set my targets and used 154As.  This time I tried to lock on farther out and used -154Cs, but that is what these missions are about.

I've been almost that far north and forgot how odd the sunset/sunrise can be up there!  Went up on deck before midwatch and saw the sun setting, went back on deck after watch and the sun was already up!

I've run into lots of little issues, all of which I chalk up to using the low detail area on an early access map so I'm not too worked up over them.  Eventually my mission footprint will get bigger and I'll go into the high detail areas for things that don't need pretty scenery (like this little pre-dawn raid) and I'll use the nice end for other things.  Flying over there is a bit like driving in western Norway in general; the scenery is so nice you sometimes forget to keep an eye on the goat path they call roads. 

1 hour ago, Czar66 said:

Any news on how that will increase the maps footprint on our limited fast storage resources, at least limited to some of us.

More details, more data.  Just assume the map will grow and plan accordingly; if Orbx gets their way it will grow quite a bit.

[Flogger23m]

Also checking the e-shop and noticed that this does not give you Miles. Last terrian I bought was Syria and that give me Miles to put towards another module. Is there any reason Kola does not give any Miles?

[Marshallman]

OK VR Seamless on my settings with my specs below, but only two of us on our server, dropped from constant 60 fps to 57fps over one area unnoticable difference, as it was a couple of seconds.

If you are having problems Slide forestry details back, makes a monster difference on both this map and South atlantic. At least try it.

Trains are running, Cars are running..... Weather looks great, lighting is cool across the mountains. Towns are nicely populated......Towns change noticably as you cross borders.
West Coast mountains are impressive, bear in mind Mesh updates are likely to follow to provide greater accuracy.

The Fjords are brilliant to fly down, superb potential for Low level sorties......

Very Happy for EARLY ACCESS.... and that is what it is!!!!!!!!!

 

[Marshallman]

7 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

It's a mixed bag for me. Framerate on the ground is VERY low (sub-30) which gives me a headache very quickly.
In the southern Finland area I have to climb to above 6000ft before the framerate goes over 30.
At higher altitude the framerates are fine (mind you all that is while doing a free flight with 1 aircraft and 0 other units).

Overall I'd say the map looks (generally) better than the SA map, and performs about the same.

Try sliding Forestry density down makes a major difference on this map and SA

Regards

Edited May 4, 2024 by Marshallman

[Northstar98]

5 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

The vast majority of them are blank areas... the SA-5 sites may have the primary roads and a few secondary roads, but the revetments and elevations for the radar sites, the minor roads and locations for radars or launchers are all missing...

That's quite disappointing - for the price of this map I'd maybe expect a little more, this certainly isn't a trivial detail for me.

• At least it would be good to have the clear, empty areas where the terrain topology is suitable for placing units (i.e. not up silly inclines, not LOS blocked from directions where they shouldn't).
• Some generic SA-2, -3, -5 and -10 launcher and FCR revetment, arranged into a generic layout and then have that be copied and pasted across the entire map (sorta like Syria, but hopefully with a bit more scope, as Ugra only really did a few SA-2 sites).
• And finally, the ideal option is where sites are recreated as accurately as possible. OneReTech seems to have had a go at doing this and aside from maybe the orientation of the launch revetments, this is perfect and is exactly what I'm talking about.

5 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

The "Super S-300" site near Olenegorsk (68 08 41.87N 33 30 14.24E) is occupied by civilian buildings... and many EWR sites are not represented.

Now that's very disappointing. It sounds like the Kola map is suffering from PG-map-iritis when it comes to these. I think I'll definitely be holding out purchasing the map (even if the area hold a tonne of interest for me), until these sites are useable as is.

 

EDIT: If you don't mind, could you also test out the HAWK sites in Norway? I've found at least 2 of them and I know Orbx has definitely modelled one of them but I couldn't tell if the trees interfere with it.

• One of them is located on the grounds of Bodø Main Air Station, at 67°15'49"N, 14°21'00"E. See here for a satellite image. HAWK sites in Norway appear to be configured as a platoon rather than a battery (i.e. they have 1 fire section (with 3 launchers)). The launchers would be the 3 circular pads to the west, the FCR would've likely gone here.
• The other is on the island of Andøya, 4 nmi to the SSW of where the airbase should be, adjacent to some former military base (69°14'00"N 16°02'36"E). See here for a satellite image.

Edited May 4, 2024 by Northstar98

[bfr]

2 hours ago, Flogger23m said:

Also checking the e-shop and noticed that this does not give you Miles. Last terrian I bought was Syria and that give me Miles to put towards another module. Is there any reason Kola does not give any Miles?

Its an optional thing and not all the 3rd party devs opt into the scheme.

[mikko.1842]

3 hours ago, Flogger23m said:

Also checking the e-shop and noticed that this does not give you Miles. Last terrian I bought was Syria and that give me Miles to put towards another module. Is there any reason Kola does not give any Miles?

ED confirmed Kola woudn't grant you any Miles. As someone already said, Kola is made by 3rd party team, and they chose not to be part of the Miles program. I suppose that Orbx wasn't sure about how good Kola's sales would be, as it is their first DCS product, so it sorta makes sense. Of course, I too wish they would join the Miles program, but it is what it is.

If you plan on flying over Kola frequently, Miles shouldn't be an issue.

Edited May 4, 2024 by mikko.1842

[Whiskey11]

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

 

• One of them is located on the grounds of Bodø Main Air Station, at 67°15'49"N, 14°21'00"E. See here for a satellite image. HAWK sites in Norway appear to be configured as a platoon rather than a battery (i.e. they have 1 fire section (with 3 launchers)). The launchers would be the 3 circular pads to the west, the FCR would've likely gone here.
• The other is on the island of Andøya, 4 nmi to the SSW of where the airbase should be, adjacent to some former military base (69°14'00"N 16°02'36"E). See here for a satellite image.

 

The Bodø HAWK works correctly although the search radar is on a little bit of a hill.  The pads are level for the launchers and the CWAR is flat enough to work correctly.  

Andøya I haven't checked, however.  Was a little too focused on the Soviet side since that's where I spent all my time pinning things on my Google Earth KMZ file and have only recently started looking into the Scandinavian countries for SAM sites.  I'm familiar with the HAWK sites in Norway IRL, so next time I boot up DCS, I'll check.

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

That's quite disappointing - for the price of this map I'd maybe expect a little more, this certainly isn't a trivial detail for me.

• At least it would be good to have the clear, empty areas where the terrain topology is suitable for placing units (i.e. not up silly inclines, not LOS blocked from directions where they shouldn't).
• Some generic SA-2, -3, -5 and -10 launcher and FCR revetment, arranged into a generic layout and then have that be copied and pasted across the entire map (sorta like Syria, but hopefully with a bit more scope, as Ugra only really did a few SA-2 sites).
• And finally, the ideal option is where sites are recreated as accurately as possible. OneReTech seems to have had a go at doing this and aside from maybe the orientation of the launch revetments, this is perfect and is exactly what I'm talking about.

Now that's very disappointing. It sounds like the Kola map is suffering from PG-map-iritis when it comes to these. I think I'll definitely be holding out purchasing the map (even if the area hold a tonne of interest for me), until these sites are useable as is.

 

EDIT: If you don't mind, could you also test out the HAWK sites in Norway? I've found at least 2 of them and I know Orbx has definitely modelled one of them but I couldn't tell if the trees interfere with it.

• One of them is located on the grounds of Bodø Main Air Station, at 67°15'49"N, 14°21'00"E. See here for a satellite image. HAWK sites in Norway appear to be configured as a platoon rather than a battery (i.e. they have 1 fire section (with 3 launchers)). The launchers would be the 3 circular pads to the west, the FCR would've likely gone here.
• The other is on the island of Andøya, 4 nmi to the SSW of where the airbase should be, adjacent to some former military base (69°14'00"N 16°02'36"E). See here for a satellite image.

 

I start to think Orbx has making a "civilian" map as MSFS, not a military combat map...

[Whiskey11]

1 minute ago, Silver_Dragon said:

I start to think Orbx has making a "civilian" map as MSFS, not a military combat map...

In COMPLETE fairness to Orbx, they said AD sites and other military bases will come later in EA... so I'm holding my breath... plus, I know someone on the test team who has given them all of the sites for the Soviets who is as obsessed with SAM Site Rivet Counting as I am... hell... he helped me create my Google Earth KMZ with the entire Soviet IADS (and now a few other IADS) on it, just to see what it looks like IRL.  It's nuts by the way.

[samba_liten]

Might we have a linky to that KMZ, please? I'm developing quite an interest in SAM sites myself, and would appreciate a peak.

[Morat]

First impressions are that this map is great. Thank you!

It has really fun terrain and will be great for rotorheads and Hog drivers alike. There's a lot of cover to be used and I'm looking forward to some SAM stalking at low level. I haven't seen anything below 50 FPS yet (turning at low level over a town) and was pegged at 60FPS otherwise. That's actually better than I tend to see in Syria and equivalent to Caucasus. So.. I'm very happy!

I'm looking forward to someone writing a big mission with a Carrier Group attacking from the sea - we'll have to wait for the missions guys to decide there's a big enough audience but if this map takes off it'll be HUGE.

Is this map worth £45? yes, all day long.

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, samba_liten said:

Might we have a linky to that KMZ, please? I'm developing quite an interest in SAM sites myself, and would appreciate a peak.

Here's the fragment of mine (the full thing is incomplete and has far more scope than just SAM sites) containing the locations of Soviet SAM and EWR sites (I have included descriptions and links to reference material in each entry).

Note that this is incomplete, it currently lacks Sweden (which is a pain the backside for finding some of this stuff, the Finnish stuff I only found mostly through sheer blind luck).

Kola Air Defence Sites Temp.kmz

Edited May 4, 2024 by Northstar98
Changed .kmz, also included Norwegian and Finnish air defence sites

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Some "actual" frame rate figures in VR, for your considerations (warning: longish)

It is just a F-16C flying south to north over 3 airfields in Finland, to the border and land back. Flown in various alt. "Nothing fancy."

So far, so-so, not as bad as as Normandy 2.0 in terms of performance, but looks nicer than SA. Trees and features are a bit...early access-ly. The performance is better than early Marinaras. Highlight: at 44:00, I came across a dam but it is kinda...you'll be the judge.

 

Orbx, keep up the good work.

Edited May 4, 2024 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[zerO_crash]

For those wondering what will be modelled further on: 

 

Basically, features like military bases, EWR-/Radar- sites and the likes, will come past early access. This isn't an exhaustive list either, as e.g. expasion of the map further, has been mentioned (all depending on whether ED can alleviate the bottleneck with maximum map size (storage)).

 

This should answer most of the questions.

[tempusmurphy]

How are the destructible features like bridges and other static targets, the subs and other ships 

[Selliese]

Low fps at sunset/dawn.

Спойлер

 

[zerO_crash]

22 minutes ago, tempusmurphy said:

How are the destructible features like bridges and other static targets, the subs and other ships 

Haven't done any combat yet, pure familiarization flights. I cannot imagine it being any different than the other maps. I'll see about dropping a MOAB and inspect what it does.

[tripod3]

Not enough depth at Gadzhievo and other Red naval bases. Facepalm

[samba_liten]

2 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Here's the fragment of mine (the full thing is incomplete and has far more scope than just SAM sites) containing the locations of Soviet SAM and EWR sites (I have included descriptions and links to reference material in each entry).

Note that this is incomplete, it currently lacks Sweden (which is a pain the backside for finding some of this stuff, the Finnish stuff I only found mostly through sheer blind luck).

Kola Air Defence Sites Temp.kmz 31.45 kB · 3 downloads

 

Thank you!

[zerO_crash]

Posting some screenshots from a simple show-off mission made in approx. 10 minutes. It shows just a few simple scenarios. The gamma is set up for VR, so don't worry about the impression of colors: