fat creason Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Delta59R said: What charts were you using to model the B originally? NAVAIR 01-F14AAP-1.1 for the F-14B (F-14A+) and NAVAIR 01-F14AAA-1.1 for the F-14A. Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat creason Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) The 1G flight envelope charts are the ones you want if you're concerned about top speed. These charts are NATOPS speed limitations based on loadout. If you care to read the link I posted, the fact it's about the F-14A isn't relevant, the discussion and methodology is. Any questions as to what we did or why can be answered there, the process on both A and B was the same. You can see what the F-14A's 1G envelope looks like there. Look for the same chart for the F-14B. We'll post about it eventually on the website if you can't figure it out. Edited May 22, 2023 by fat creason Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta59R Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 1 hour ago, fat creason said: The 1G flight envelope charts are the ones you want if you're concerned about top speed. These charts are NATOPS speed limitations based on loadout. If you care to read the link I posted, the fact it's about the F-14A isn't relevant, the discussion and methodology is. Any questions as to what we did or why can be answered there, the process on both A and B was the same. You can see what the F-14A's 1G envelope looks like there. Look for the same chart for the F-14B. We'll post about it eventually on the website if you can't figure it out. Gotcha, when I get a chance to sit in front of a real computer I'll check it out. So, back to your post before, you said the original model was based on these APP1.1 charts. So the charts showed it was capable of 2.2+ but something changed y'all's mind so you change it or they showed it wasn't capable of 2.2+ and y'all modeled it faster anyway? Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat creason Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) No we just made improvements to the model after fixing some other stuff that was impacting it. Things like this take large amounts of time to get right and things have to happen in a particular order. It's all discussed in the link I posted. Edited May 22, 2023 by fat creason 1 Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat creason Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) What would that be? Does the chart make sense? Edited May 23, 2023 by fat creason Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyvandelft Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Yeah the wheel brakes are definitely off. Made a feedback post on Discord. My squadron mates agree that they're too weak now. Tire rolling resistance feels much better, but braking needs to be stronger. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta59R Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 10 hours ago, fat creason said: What would that be? Does the chart make sense? Yes, makes sense. So where does the 2.34/2.38 clean spec come from? Have we all been getting smoke blown up our asses for decades? Back to the A model, if I'm reading correctly, you guys felt that on the A model with a 4x4 config tested @ m2.15 would only be capable of m2.22 after dropping 4-sparows, 4 sidewinder, 2 pylons, and ammo? Is that right? You would only gain 0.07? Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_Fenrir Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Delta59R said: Yes, makes sense. So where does the 2.34/2.38 clean spec come from? Have we all been getting smoke blown up our asses for decades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta59R Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Any proof of those speeds or just stories? Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_Fenrir Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, Delta59R said: Any proof of those speeds or just stories? That was not my point. You asked "So where does the 2.34/2.38 clean spec come from?". Did you read the point about early F-14As having 6000lb more thrust? That later F-14As were de-rated? That it's very likely the 2.34 Mach figure comes from early testing, and it's likely that comes with the benefit of that extra thrust? And that the B, whilst having GE F110s with greater static thrust, was not as quick as the A when high and fast as the general understanding is that the TF30s benefitted from Ram Air effect better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta59R Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said: That was not my point. You asked "So where does the 2.34/2.38 clean spec come from?". Did you read the point about early F-14As having 6000lb more thrust? That later F-14As were de-rated? That it's very likely the 2.34 Mach figure comes from early testing, and it's likely that comes with the benefit of that extra thrust? And that the B, whilst having GE F110s with greater static thrust, was not as quick as the A when high and fast as the general understanding is that the TF30s benefitted from Ram Air effect better. So just stories? Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_Fenrir Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Delta59R said: So just stories? Sheesh... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted May 23, 2023 ED Team Share Posted May 23, 2023 Folks please do not share restricted documents here on the forum thank you Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat creason Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Delta59R said: Yes, makes sense. So where does the 2.34/2.38 clean spec come from? Have we all been getting smoke blown up our asses for decades? I personally believe everything I read on the internet and never look into it... Seriously though, the DCS F-14A hits about 2.30. I think the numbers in the write-up didn't get updated, we'll fix it. Edited May 23, 2023 by fat creason 3 Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta59R Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 25 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said: Sheesh... No, not sheesh, people have a hard time with simple questions around here. I get that you are just explaining where that spec might have come from. Cool. Awesome. Thanks for the insight. Now that we are past the pleasantries, is there any proof/documentation of those speeds or just stories? Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat creason Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 4 hours ago, Dannyvandelft said: Yeah the wheel brakes are definitely off. Made a feedback post on Discord. My squadron mates agree that they're too weak now. Tire rolling resistance feels much better, but braking needs to be stronger. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk We're aware, part 2 of the fixes just didn't make the patch in time, it will come in the next one. 4 1 Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta59R Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, fat creason said: I believe everything I read on the internet and never look into it... Well, we can still clutch those Rio stories close to our heart and the like can't we? Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_Fenrir Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Delta59R said: No, not sheesh, people have a hard time with simple questions around here. I get that you are just explaining where that spec might have come from. Cool. Awesome. Thanks for the insight. Now that we are past the pleasantries, is there any proof/documentation of those speeds or just stories? Then may I suggest you work on your tone. Perhaps instead of "So just stories?", you can type "Awesome. Thanks for the insight. Anyone know of any datapoints that can corroborate these anecdotes?" Comes across much less... prickly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta59R Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said: Then may I suggest you work on your tone. Perhaps instead of "So just stories?", you can type "Awesome. Thanks for the insight. Anyone know of any datapoints that can corroborate these anecdotes?" Comes across much less... prickly. I apologize, I'll add some sugar on top next time. Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_Fenrir Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Delta59R said: I apologize, I'll add some sugar on top next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta59R Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, fat creason said: Seriously though, the DCS F-14A hits about 2.30. I think the numbers in the write-up didn't get updated, we'll fix it. Ahh, cool! Edited May 23, 2023 by Delta59R Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callsign JoNay Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 6 hours ago, Dannyvandelft said: Yeah the wheel brakes are definitely off. Made a feedback post on Discord. My squadron mates agree that they're too weak now. Tire rolling resistance feels much better, but braking needs to be stronger. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk Do they? Or are they finally acting the way they should after removing the crazy ground friction we've had for the last few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyvandelft Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 We're aware, part 2 of the fixes just didn't make the patch in time, it will come in the next one.Great ty Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat creason Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Callsign JoNay said: Do they? Or are they finally acting the way they should after removing the crazy ground friction we've had for the last few years? The previous brakes didn't need to provide much brake torque, as there was so much rolling resistance it was as if the brakes were being applied at all times. Now that rolling resistance is much lower, we have to crank the max brake torque back up. This issue was discovered just after the submit deadline for the last patch. They'll be able to hold Zone 1 AB in the next patch. Edited May 23, 2023 by fat creason 3 5 Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarthogOsl Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) There was an interview with F-14 test pilot Kurt Schroeder who got an F-14A to Mach 2.4 and said that was the fastest it ever went. However, speeds were pretty quickly restricted to under Mach 2 due to some issues that the Navy didn't feel like spending money to solve. Of all the Tomcat pilots interviewed in the Tomcast podcast, none said they ever broke Mach 2, fwiw. Edited May 23, 2023 by WarthogOsl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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