Introducing Meta Quest 3

HARTMANN1145 · October 15, 2023

I have used VR with the Quest 2 and was sad!y not impressed,the clarity was awful..you couldn't spot your opponent in Warbirds until the last minute!

Was recently looking at the Quest pro as reviews were good but wary its not going to meet my expectations for the price.

Might just hold on a few years because right here,right now the VR experience is simply not optimised nor advanced enough...all about opinions folks.

SpeedStick · October 15, 2023

On 10/13/2023 at 8:12 PM, sze5003 said:

On 10/13/2023 at 8:04 PM, alip said:

Am I right in that using the link cable is pretty much always preferrable to a wireless connection?

Yea link cable is best and if you want to max out the resolution of the quest 3 in oculus app as well as apply super sampling over a certain amount in the oculus debug tool, I think a 4090 is definitely for this.

Alright I think this sealed it for me.

I've had CV1 since 2016, I believe. Been upgrading my pc the last 2 years to be able to get new vr. However apparently the 3070 i saved up to is already ageing.

My only fear would be not being mainly a pcvr design. And that tethered pcvr would still apply some compression and end up looking like last gen.

But hoping a cable and 3070 will do decent job?

Marklar · October 15, 2023

3 hours ago, HARTMANN1145 said:

I have used VR with the Quest 2 and was sad!y not impressed,the clarity was awful..you couldn't spot your opponent in Warbirds until the last minute!

Was recently looking at the Quest pro as reviews were good but wary its not going to meet my expectations for the price.

Might just hold on a few years because right here,right now the VR experience is simply not optimised nor advanced enough...all about opinions folks.

Hold on for another few years because right now… bla bla bla. LOL I’ve been playing DCS in VR since 2016.

dburne · October 15, 2023

31 minutes ago, Marklar said:

Hold on for another few years because right now… bla bla bla. LOL I’ve been playing DCS in VR since 2016.

:thumbup:

Since Jan 2017 here. Do it on most days, and absolutely love it. Reckon I would never go back to gaming on monitor again.

sze5003 · October 15, 2023

Alright I think this sealed it for me.
I've had CV1 since 2016, I believe. Been upgrading my pc the last 2 years to be able to get new vr. However apparently the 3070 i saved up to is already ageing.
My only fear would be not being mainly a pcvr design. And that tethered pcvr would still apply some compression and end up looking like last gen.
But hoping a cable and 3070 will do decent job?

3070 is limited on Vram bandwidth so I dont think you will be able to crank up the resolution. You may be fine as long as you don't set the textures to high and use ASW. Maybe get 45-60fps if you can tune your PC properly.

For high resolution headsets the 3070 isn't recommended unfortunately.

Hoirtel · October 15, 2023

Bit of an update since I have now had time to test & tweak.

Based on my experience and what others have posted online, I am almost certain meta isn't supporting AV1 through any sort of link yet. I see horrible compression unless I use the 900 bitrate "trick" in oculus debug tool. This actually removes nearly all of it and things look really quite nice.. To my understanding AV1 should get great results at 200mb but this doesn't happen for me on either link. I don't think you can run airlink over 200, someone tell me if this is wrong.

I have used VD and this is very nice looking, can't seem to get it to do wired link yet but it does work nicely with my 6E router, and almost looks the best (ultra or godlike). The main problem for me is that the oculus ASW is terrible through VD, all of the distance is blurry and wobbly. I actually like oculus ASW, one of the few that seem to but for me (on link) it is really good, minimal artifacting and allows me to run very high settings, great eye candy down load and in cities etc. VD also has no (official) openxr at this current time, this is in testing so there might be improvements in perf to come and maybe I will try to move away from ASW if that gets better. I am a new VD user so tips welcome.

One surprise is that running at 900mb over link (with and without ASW) I really notice how responsive the headset runs. I also am sure I see I performance improvement, which is bizarre. I actually wonder if the Q2 decoding was a bottleneck previously. I seem to be spending much more time at 80fps (headset set to 80hz) that I ever saw before, and even in my heavy test tracks where I would see dips to below 40fps (reprojection rate) these now do not happen. Odd.

I also take back what I said about comfort, its actually awful. I have used the Q2 with stock face plate and strap for three years (yes.. stock strap) and this hurts my head and face after 1 hour. The stock strap also is just different enough to my catch ears whereas the old one didn't, this also means that my headset now doesn't fit either so I will have to buy a new strap that I can use a headset with. Not such a low cost now.

I really think the PCVR has a little maturing to do yet on either VD or link but the 900bitrate looks like it will be my current option. I actually think the Q3 will get really nice in link once the updates are fleshed out.

Hoirtel · October 15, 2023

5 hours ago, HARTMANN1145 said:

I have used VR with the Quest 2 and was sad!y not impressed,the clarity was awful..you couldn't spot your opponent in Warbirds until the last minute!

Was recently looking at the Quest pro as reviews were good but wary its not going to meet my expectations for the price.

Might just hold on a few years because right here,right now the VR experience is simply not optimised nor advanced enough...all about opinions folks.

Depends how much you looked. All meta headsets default to the "recommended" render res, which is really bad looking. I used Q2 for 3 years, no problem at all spotting anything. I flew with a lot of other people, on a lot of different setups and I have honestly never not been able to spot something that somebody else can see. Vice versa has happened though.

warmachine79 · October 15, 2023

6 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

Bit of an update since I have now had time to test & tweak.

Based on my experience and what others have posted online, I am almost certain meta isn't supporting AV1 through any sort of link yet. I see horrible compression unless I use the 900 bitrate "trick" in oculus debug tool. This actually removes nearly all of it and things look really quite nice.. To my understanding AV1 should get great results at 200mb but this doesn't happen for me on either link. I don't think you can run airlink over 200, someone tell me if this is wrong.

I have used VD and this is very nice looking, can't seem to get it to do wired link yet but it does work nicely with my 6E router, and almost looks the best (ultra or godlike). The main problem for me is that the oculus ASW is terrible through VD, all of the distance is blurry and wobbly. I actually like oculus ASW, one of the few that seem to but for me (on link) it is really good, minimal artifacting and allows me to run very high settings, great eye candy down load and in cities etc. VD also has no (official) openxr at this current time, this is in testing so there might be improvements in perf to come and maybe I will try to move away from ASW if that gets better. I am a new VD user so tips welcome.

One surprise is that running at 900mb over link (with and without ASW) I really notice how responsive the headset runs. I also am sure I see I performance improvement, which is bizarre. I actually wonder if the Q2 decoding was a bottleneck previously. I seem to be spending much more time at 80fps (headset set to 80hz) that I ever saw before, and even in my heavy test tracks where I would see dips to below 40fps (reprojection rate) these now do not happen. Odd.

I also take back what I said about comfort, its actually awful. I have used the Q2 with stock face plate and strap for three years (yes.. stock strap) and this hurts my head and face after 1 hour. The stock strap also is just different enough to my catch ears whereas the old one didn't, this also means that my headset now doesn't fit either so I will have to buy a new strap that I can use a headset with. Not such a low cost now.

I really think the PCVR has a little maturing to do yet on either VD or link but the 900bitrate looks like it will be my current option. I actually think the Q3 will get really nice in link once the updates are fleshed out.

How do I disable ASW for Virtual Desktop?

SpeedStick · October 15, 2023

1 hour ago, sze5003 said:

3070 is limited on Vram bandwidth...

Thx for the info. Yeah I'm not expecting 120fps at 8k etc. Just an upgrade from 2016. And considering I've already spent about 1500+ upgrading (pc & peripherals) and about to spend more on headset. Just want to be able to read displays/hud and tell difference between a building and a plane.

By the time I've saved up it's already obsolete. And I'm tired of waiting for next gen and sales. Hence still on CV1.

Hoirtel · October 15, 2023

1 hour ago, warmachine79 said:

How do I disable ASW for Virtual Desktop?

Menu (left controller) streaming, see options for disable/auto/force spacewarp.

Marklar · October 15, 2023

Any long time Reverb G2 user who is genuinely happy with Q3 upgrade? My main concern is video compression over the cable link. Is it noticeable at all, considering a DCS player often looks out for a single pixel against a tree line? Also what's going on with battery drain? I saw reports saying battery level goes down even with the cable link.

Dogmanbird · October 16, 2023

The compression is my worry too. What's considered acceptable or non-existent seems to be a personal thing among reviewers. I really need to try it for myself

I thought I'd have tried a Q3 by now but they've taken longer than anticipated, but should have one by later today. I've been using a Reverb G2 v1 almost everyday since it's release. I'll report back with my 2 cents.

nope, delayed again. I think the 512mb models took an alternative route. I'm now wondering if they'll arrive at all as it's the fourth time they've pushed the date back

null

Edited October 16, 2023 by Dogmanbird

alip · October 16, 2023

Is compression an issue over the link cable as well? Why? Is that a software issue or just a limitation of using usb?

Dogmanbird · October 16, 2023

might be mostly for maximising the compatibility when using a single interface, for simplicity and maybe cost.

if they use something that can work when adapted to a usb-A connector, everyone can use it on just about any computer and also charge/power it, but it's throughput is too slow for direct video at the res and fps required, therefore the video needs to be compressed. They seem to have focussed on finding an average performance sweetspot that suits the majority of users, but not so much the high end PC owner who wants to see every pixel

Although it uses the USB C interface, cost might have been too high to support thunderbolt type video, though I wouldn't be shocked if meta surprises us with incremental cabled-link improvements over the next 12 months. I reckon q3 will get adopted for remotely assisted field work (and meta knew this) and will see some cool software to go with it - becoming the next hololens (on a budget), which apple probably have their eye on too, though apple's might work well in very low light, which could be a big advantage over q3 and hololens

just my take on it

Edited October 16, 2023 by Dogmanbird

sze5003 · October 16, 2023

i'll prophesise (though i'm probably stating the obvious)
- within the next 48 hours will be another video of how vrflightsimguy has discovered a new setting that has improved things and now looks so much better, but it's still not the best yet, because there needs to be a reason to create another 10+ minute video after that........my thoughts after 1 month!........Is quest 3 still worth it in 2024?......

Right on cue again lol

dutchili · October 16, 2023

I replaced my quest 2 with a quest 3.
- pancake lenses make the cockpit look much beter
- increased resolution removes a lot of anti-aliasing issues at short range.
- i find the wearing comfort better due to the new fabric used and bigger opening between the headset and my face on the button, when tilting the mask to 3 out of 4 position (downside, a little light coming in from below and not entirely black inside the headset. But if i dont tilt, the lens socket touches my eye socket.
- battery life seemed terrible at first, but after switching of hand recognition and passthrough it seems to be about 33% per 1 hour (wired)

I was sceptical because the resolution is not much bigger (compared to Varjo or Pimax), but it does make a difference in terms of what you can see and how stable the images is. For example, recognizing planes is possible at greater distances. And with NVG (Viper) on, the image is much more relaxing to my eyes.

I guess it shows that 'resolution is key' and image quality will be much better with the Varjo or Pimax, but i did not want to buy base stations as quest hasn't needed them for years.

In MT, i get stable 45 fps with an I9 13900, 32 gb RAM and RTX 4090 at PD 1.1 and Oculus super sampling at 1.5, with all settings at max.
However, the ground still stutters at low altitude, but that seems to be a DCS issues with the main threats as it also happens at very low settings.

So if you can trade your q2 for q3, i would recommend it. If you have base stations or are willing to by those, i'd go for something with more resolution.

Hoirtel · October 16, 2023

6 hours ago, sze5003 said:

Right on cue again lol

LMAO you totally called this. I laughed when I saw it because of your post. However I agree with the bitrate but not tried the Render Res +openxr yet.

9 hours ago, alip said:

Is compression an issue over the link cable as well? Why? Is that a software issue or just a limitation of using usb?

Yes at low bitrates. 900+ is really nice. I don't think meta support av1 at all yet. It can be done in VD and looks good, but you need full FPS all the time as reprojection looks bad. Link (air or cable) reprojection I think is great.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Hoirtel

Lange_666 · October 17, 2023

9 hours ago, dutchili said:

However, the ground still stutters at low altitude, but that seems to be a DCS issues with the main threats as it also happens at very low settings.

I don't think it's a DCS issue but a standalone headset issue (no matter what brand) when not running on max FPS setting on the selected refresh freq.

dutchili · October 17, 2023

In pancake the GPU produces tween 90 and 180 frames per second, but the core is not delivering those. It seems to me that when the core does not keep up, the GPU can still render the previous frame and fake (ASW) the frame that should be in between, but that doesn't look so well.

Oculus ASW cannot predict the frames if there are too little frames produced. MT reports this as CPU bound.
Well, that is how i understand it.

Sile · October 17, 2023

In my case, despite a frametime way below the required frametime for my VR headset (72 Hz) the terrain stuttered with the MT Client and the Oculus OpenXR Runtime.. Also with lowest possible Settings and Resolution
(ST Client OR OXR toolkit turbo mode OR SteamVR OpenXR Runtime -> no stuttering).
So I suspect the MT client to have some problem with the correct timing of the rendering of the terrain/outside of the cockpit. Also visible in 2D when looking at plane contacts.

There is also a thread about terrain stuttering in the MT Client Bug Section.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Sile

MIghtymoo · October 17, 2023

13 hours ago, dutchili said:

In MT, i get stable 45 fps with an I9 13900, 32 gb RAM and RTX 4090 at PD 1.1 and Oculus super sampling at 1.5, with all settings at max.
However, the ground still stutters at low altitude, but that seems to be a DCS issues with the main threats as it also happens at very low settings.

This is not a DCS issue.

Running 72 FPS super smooth on a Pico 4. May it be related to reprojection?

dutchili · October 17, 2023

2 minutes ago, MIghtymoo said:

This is not a DCS issue.

Running 72 FPS super smooth on a Pico 4. May it be related to reprojection?

Yes and now. I think your Pico does a better job a filling in the missing frames. As missing frames are also visible in 2d
(with missing frame is mean: the ground not being updated at the intended refresh rate)

Edited October 17, 2023 by dutchili

Gorn_GER · October 17, 2023

Am 16.10.2023 um 03:38 schrieb Dogmanbird:

The compression is my worry too. What's considered acceptable or non-existent seems to be a personal thing among reviewers. I really need to try it for myself

I thought I'd have tried a Q3 by now but they've taken longer than anticipated, but should have one by later today. I've been using a Reverb G2 v1 almost everyday since it's release. I'll report back with my 2 cents.

nope, delayed again. I think the 512mb models took an alternative route. I'm now wondering if they'll arrive at all as it's the fourth time they've pushed the date back

null

Since there was a small gap to get one on amazon with delivery in the next days, I ordered a Quest 3, too. Atm. I have a Reverb G2 v1, too and I will report my experience on both headsets, too. In any case, I am lucky to be an owner of the Quest 3. I will finnaly be able to play normal VR games, too. If DCS is better on the Reverb G2v1, I will keep it for that. If the Quest3 is better, I may sell my old ReverbG2. But nevertheless I will report my results to you, maybe they are not the same as what other players get. Some years ago, there were many good and bad reviews about the Quest 1 and I was lucky to listen more on the good news because the Quest 1 was the best I could do earlyer, to get into VR.

Dogmanbird · October 17, 2023

Will be keen to hear what you think. I had a Q1 for about 7 months

One of the 512gb models arrived today, so just starting to give her a go. So far I do see more screen door, the amount being somewhere between quest pro and reverb g2. Fov maybe slightly bigger than a faceplate-less reverb g2. i use thin pu padding directly attached to the g2 housing without any frame. My eyelashes almost touch the lenses

Gorn_GER · October 17, 2023

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Dogmanbird:

Will be keen to hear what you think. I had a Q1 for about 7 months

One of the 512gb models arrived today, so just starting to give her a go. So far I do see more screen door, the amount being somewhere between quest pro and reverb g2. Fov maybe slightly bigger than a faceplate-less reverb g2. i use thin pu padding directly attached to the g2 housing without any frame. My eyelashes almost touch the lenses

I never had a Quest Pro, so I cannot estimate how it looks for you atm.

I used a Quest 2 that I had for a while by a friend of mine, before I bought the Reverb G2 and even though the Resolution per eye was way under the Reverb, it did not feel "that bad" but ofcause the sweetspot on Reverb G2 looked way more clear than Q2

The sellpoint for the G2 compared to Q2 was more or less the performance. The higher native resolution and direct connection to the displays without compressing data had an overall better performance earlyer with my RTX 2070. But since I use 4090 now, I should have bought the Q2 instead

How is the overall clarity with the Pancake-lenses compared to this tiny sweetspot on Reverb G2 with facecover? I always thought about getting rid of the Facecover (mostly because of the fog on the lenses due to sweat) how does your "thin pu padding" look like and how to get one (in case the Reverb is the better DCS VR-device)?

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