SA-342 Gazelle 2023 "FM" Update

[jnr4817]

54 minutes ago, Kazputin said:

Just logged in to try this out - sad to say FFB trim is still broken.

I've tried with cyclic trim set to 'instant' and 'none': none doesn't set position at all, and 'instant' is the same as my previous post.

I get in a nice hover, I hit the trim button as I would in the Huey, and can see the controls indicator immediately set my trim position and at the same time offset the current stick position from that new trim position, effectively doubling my input in both axes. This immediately knocks me out of the stable hover.

Maybe I'm missing some settings somewhere, but certainly for me force feedback trim is NOT working, despite it saying 'fixed' in the patch notes... 

Disappointed!

What are your controls, are you in VR and have hand controllers connected, did you check the FFB box in the special settings?

[nazradu]

Idk still does not feel right. Can't realy describe it, but it feels like if you do raise the collective "to fast" and I don't mean big jumps she looses lift completly for a second.

[Ian Boys UK]

Auto hover works completely fine for me - I have rudder trim set and I get into a hover (Doppler cross centered, no climb) and trim my pedals out then hit autohover. I switch seats and use MILD collective changes to rise and fall as required. Slight pedal pressure to turn towards tgts. Works fine. I have no joystick trim at all, just hold in position.

[heloguy]

3 hours ago, nazradu said:

Idk still does not feel right. Can't realy describe it, but it feels like if you do raise the collective "to fast" and I don't mean big jumps she looses lift completly for a second.

Didn't notice this (was mainly looking at the trim, which works great btw), but it's not unrealistic that if you move the collective too fast, the engine can't surge fast enough to provide power to maintain RPM.

Also, in case it helps anyone, had to invert the FFB y-axis for my Brunner CLS-E.  Works fine now.

[MAXsenna]

Didn't notice this (was mainly looking at the trim, which works great btw), but it's not unrealistic that if you move the collective too fast, the engine can't surge fast enough to provide power to maintain RPM.
Also, in case it helps anyone, had to invert the FFB y-axis for my Brunner CLS-E.  Works fine now.

True, the manual even states that you can break the engine if one moves the collective too fast if checked in the special settings.

Interesting you only had to reverse one FFB axis.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Hiob]

Hey, can anyone confirm this behavior:

When I pick her up (rather light weight - no weapons, 80% fuel), I need a little bit of left stick to lift straight of (just like before), then when I pick up speed (well below ETL), she rolls pretty strongly to the left and I need to be rather quick on the stick to counter (well past middle position) to keep her straight.

Nothing unmanagable, but a bit irritating. Can't recall such behavior prior to the latest OB patch. Am I missing something? Is it just her new character? Is it just me?

I should probably mention, that other than that, she flies perfectly fine so far. A lot more excess power than before (or less weight - either way).
I liked the new FM (previous Patch) right from the start and had no problems to adapt to the quirks. I will adapt to this behavior too, I'm just curious.

Thanks guys.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Hiob

[Holbeach]

@Hiob

 

Tried this with your settings. 90% load M model.

I've been using the previous FM at full load, so the first take off in this FM, I fell over using too much pre T/O trim.

I found it needed the tiniest amount of right rudder and minimal left stick.

Eventually I applied these just after lift off with about 68% torque. to the hover in GE.

Pulling away, more rudder was required, but I didn't get the left roll you saw.
i'll give it more practice..

[Hiob]

1 hour ago, Holbeach said:

@Hiob

 

Tried this with your settings. 90% load M model.

I've been using the previous FM at full load, so the first take off in this FM, I fell over using too much pre T/O trim.

I found it needed the tiniest amount of right rudder and minimal left stick.

Eventually I applied these just after lift off with about 68% torque. to the hover in GE.

Pulling away, more rudder was required, but I didn't get the left roll you saw.
i'll give it more practice..

Thanks for the feedback - I'll be on the lookout. Perhaps there are some specifics in the missions like wind, that I am unaware of. I just modified a Huey-Instant action mission. I'll sort it out.

[Kazputin]

20 hours ago, jnr4817 said:

What are your controls, are you in VR and have hand controllers connected, did you check the FFB box in the special settings?

Thanks for the reply - I was in VR, I don't use hand controllers, and the FFB box was the magic switch! Need to spend more time flying the bird as currently way too heavy handed with the stick - used to the Huey which is a bit more forgiving, so I need to tune axes and train muscle memory...

[Johnny Dioxin]

On 7/25/2023 at 4:39 PM, jef32 said:

Hi

Thanks for your answer. As I'd previously said somewhere, the real gazelle needs 2 persons for its crew. A pilot and a weapon operator. Us, in no multiplayer mode, we are alone in the virtual cockpit of the Gazelle and the choice of auto-hover to take the weapon officer's seat is a good idea to hide the helicopter behind something to be safe from enemy fire and just lifting to fire the Hot missiles. For now, even if Polychop has highly improved the realism of the Gazelle, and it's a very good thing, they didn't fix the auto-hover functionality like it was before and for me, for now, the Gazelle stays in the hangar because I'm not able to use it in fight like before. We don't know when Polychop will decide to fix this issue and it makes me very angry.

This is exactly what you're supposed to do in the campaign that comes with the Gazelle - you should set autohover and jump to the left seat, fire the weapons, jump back and shift out of there. From the words of the chap who made it to my very ears

It is a necessity and cowboy tactics (or maybe better called 'Hollywood') are not the answer. I'm sure they'll fix it at some stage, though when is anybody's guess - who knows how complicated it is to code with this model. This is one of the reasons I keep 1.5.8 installed, so I can still fly currently broken campaigns - whether the campaign itself or the aircraft that flies it.

 

[kotor633]

Hi,

Again an extensive update package... Especially for the F-15E and the Gazelle. Above all, 2 extensions stand out positively for the Gazelle:
Added: basic sling loading
 Helper UI to be added later
Added: Periscope now has laser range finder

Really?? With the Gazelle we can also carry out sling load operations in the future? How awesome is that!! But does that mean it works now? For barrels, I placed 220 lbs per mission editor. I ticked the Can Be Cargo box. For Rope Length I set the length to 16.4 feet. I have also stored buttons for External Cargo Hook and External Cargo Tactical Unhook in the Control Options. It doesn't matter whether I land right next to the cargo or hover 2-3 meters directly above the cargo: I don't see a hook, nor is the cargo attached to the hook. Then you can take the word basic literally: The basic function for key assignment is already there, but the actual function is still missing?

The Gazelle is getting better and better...I'm so happy!

[nazradu]

22 hours ago, Hiob said:

Hey, can anyone confirm this behavior:

When I pick her up (rather light weight - no weapons, 80% fuel), I need a little bit of left stick to lift straight of (just like before), then when I pick up speed (well below ETL), she rolls pretty strongly to the left and I need to be rather quick on the stick to counter (well past middle position) to keep her straight.

Nothing unmanagable, but a bit irritating. Can't recall such behavior prior to the latest OB patch. Am I missing something? Is it just her new character? Is it just me?

I should probably mention, that other than that, she flies perfectly fine so far. A lot more excess power than before (or less weight - either way).
I liked the new FM (previous Patch) right from the start and had no problems to adapt to the quirks. I will adapt to this behavior too, I'm just curious.

Thanks guys.

 

By design she hovers with a 5 degree tilt to the right. Somebody posted a picture somewhere to demonstrate but I cant find it. The right roll on TO is there since FM update and I have been told it's correct.

The left roll I don't notice. Could it be you overcompensate the right roll?

 

[Kazputin]

9 hours ago, kotor633 said:

Hi,

Again an extensive update package... Especially for the F-15E and the Gazelle. Above all, 2 extensions stand out positively for the Gazelle:
Added: basic sling loading
 Helper UI to be added later
Added: Periscope now has laser range finder

Really?? With the Gazelle we can also carry out sling load operations in the future? How awesome is that!! But does that mean it works now? For barrels, I placed 220 lbs per mission editor. I ticked the Can Be Cargo box. For Rope Length I set the length to 16.4 feet. I have also stored buttons for External Cargo Hook and External Cargo Tactical Unhook in the Control Options. It doesn't matter whether I land right next to the cargo or hover 2-3 meters directly above the cargo: I don't see a hook, nor is the cargo attached to the hook. Then you can take the word basic literally: The basic function for key assignment is already there, but the actual function is still missing?

The Gazelle is getting better and better...I'm so happy!

If it's like the Huey - you have to use the Radio menu to go to Cargos and then select your cargo. That'll trigger a smoke flare on the cargo, and then you can hook it. In the huey the copilot calls out positioning too (e.g. left 10, right 30, in position, you are hooked, take tension, cargo hanging, take it away)

[kotor633]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb Kazputin:

If it's like the Huey - you have to use the Radio menu to go to Cargos and then select your cargo. That'll trigger a smoke flare on the cargo, and then you can hook it. In the huey the copilot calls out positioning too (e.g. left 10, right 30, in position, you are hooked, take tension, cargo hanging, take it away)

Radio menue...Cargo. Yes of course!! Completely forgot because I hadn't practiced it for a long time. Thank you for the crucial hint.

[Shadok]

2 hours ago, nazradu said:

The left roll I don't notice. Could it be you overcompensate the right roll?

I have the same thing when accelerating and just before get to a hover, I have to compensate by tilting the stick to the right for a brief moment to prevent the helicopter from rolling to the left.

[nazradu]

23 minutes ago, Shadok said:

I have the same thing when accelerating and just before get to a hover, I have to compensate by tilting the stick to the right for a brief moment to prevent the helicopter from rolling to the left.

Mh. Now that say that with transition from forward flight to hover. Need to watch it again...

[Hiob]

3 hours ago, nazradu said:

By design she hovers with a 5 degree tilt to the right. Somebody posted a picture somewhere to demonstrate but I cant find it. The right roll on TO is there since FM update and I have been told it's correct.

The left roll I don't notice. Could it be you overcompensate the right roll?

 

No, that is not what I meant. I can lift of perfectly straight, and 5 degrees tilt is negligible. Only when I start pitching forward and picking up speed, she rolls significantly to the left.
As I said. Maybe there is something going on, that I'm unaware of - like wind. When I try it the next time and can't figure it out, I'll save a trackfile.

[nazradu]

2 hours ago, Hiob said:

No, that is not what I meant. I can lift of perfectly straight, and 5 degrees tilt is negligible. Only when I start pitching forward and picking up speed, she rolls significantly to the left.
As I said. Maybe there is something going on, that I'm unaware of - like wind. When I try it the next time and can't figure it out, I'll save a trackfile.

Yeah you are right. Did not notice cause I cancel it out by instinct right when it happens, but if you just push forward and don't counter she will lean very far to the left and enter a left hand turn.

[Hiob]

48 minutes ago, nazradu said:

Yeah you are right. Did not notice cause I cancel it out by instinct right when it happens, but if you just push forward and don't counter she will lean very far to the left and enter a left hand turn.

This is what I meant. Of course you can compensate, but I can't think of a reason why that happens (to this extend) and I'm unaware that she did that before.

[nazradu]

1 hour ago, Hiob said:

This is what I meant. Of course you can compensate, but I can't think of a reason why that happens (to this extend) and I'm unaware that she did that before.

Polychop guys say it's that

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transverse_flow_effect

[Holbeach]

That sums it up.

Left roll is correct.

..

[grim_reaper68]

First of all, thank you Polychop for that great job! Now i'm feeling flying  the most realistic Gazelle since the beginning. It's a pleasure to make tactic flight at 30ft (10m) above the ground at 200khp and to attack the enemy vehicules. 

I just have a strange feeling about the autohoover, but maybe I'm doing something wrong. I'm engaging the CSV and then slow down and trim the Gazelle and adjust the collective, to reach autohoover conditions (less than 8kph and 1m/s vertical speed), and then the CSV turn to green (engaged). But the Gazelle is balancing a lot, as it seems to overcorrect. Sometimes the CSV switches fast between yellow and green, and the vertical speed rises or decrease. I tried to first setup airspeed and V/S and then engage CSV, sometimes it get "stable" and sometimes not. Is there maybe a procedure to engage the CSV that works every time?

 

[Hiob]

5 hours ago, nazradu said:

Polychop guys say it's that

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transverse_flow_effect

Okay, thank you. Very interesting.

As far as I’m aware it isn’t modeled in any of the other helicopters yet - or at least it is a lot less pronounced, since I never noticed it consciously.

Will be interesting to revisit and check.

5 hours ago, Holbeach said:

That sums it up.

Left roll is correct.

..

Yep. Just to be clear, I never suggested it wasn’t. I was just surprised by it, because I never noticed it previously in any of the other Choppers in DCS.

[Holbeach]

9 hours ago, Hiob said:

Yep. Just to be clear, I never suggested it wasn’t. I was just surprised by it, because I never noticed it previously in any of the other Choppers in DCS.

Yes and I'm glad you brought it up. I would not have noticed it until I specifically looked.

This shows that Polychop are on the ball with this new FM and I'm enjoying flying it as a pure helicopter experience.

Pagan, Marianas.

 

 

..

[MAXsenna]

I have to say that the Gazelle is really turning into a real gem now.
Than you Polychop!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk