Why does the outside world look terrible in VR?

[Callsign.Vega]

So I've been bouncing back and forth between my Pimax Crystal and 4K monitor.. and something has stood out at me. Keeping the same graphical settings, 4K monitor at 4K resolution, and Crystal at 100% native resolution.

 

On the 4K monitor, both the cockpit and the outside world (ground, buildings, other airplanes) look clear crisp and detailed. But with the Crystal in VR, the cockpit is super clear but the outside world (ground, buildings, other airplanes) look like poo. Flickering, popping textures, low resolution, fuzzy aircraft etc. 

 

What am I missing? System in sig. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Callsign.Vega

[Germane]

Did you have the same problems with other Headsets too, or is this something you have especially with the crystal?

[Callsign.Vega]

Only tried with the Crystal so far. 

[Nedum]

Without any hints for your DCS settings, it's not possible to give you a good answer. If u can, give us some screenshots through the lenses.

Could it be, this is your first VR experience?

If you play with a VR HMD it's like you are playing at a 4k 90" screen, 2 meters away from you. The "small" 4k 2d display hides most of the current issues DCS has (mostly flickering textures). In VR you see all the problems like through a magnifying glass. What you describe sounds "normal" to me.

 

[dburne]

Yeah distant scenery in VR is not so sharply detailed.

[WipeUout]

VR is not as sharp as a monitor.  Consider if your 4k monitor occupy 60 degree of your field of view, this equates to 60+ pixels per degree (PPD).  Your Crystal has 35 PPD, which is much less but still the best resolution you can expect from VR so far.  The VR proposition is: Instead of looking at a simulation, you are in the simulation.  You compromise image quality for immersion.

[mrsylvestre]

Very good summary of the VR proposition.

[Qcumber]

On 6/30/2023 at 7:43 AM, Callsign.Vega said:

Crystal at 100% native resolution

I'm not familiar with the crystal but when you say native resolution do you mean the pixel resolution of the headset? Most headsets need to have the resolution set to 150% of the actual pixels to account for distortion etc. For example, the Pico 4 has a resolution of 2160x2160 per eye but should be set at 3240x3240 (godlike mode on virtual desktop) to get the best quality. You can also do this through steam VR and through the pixel density setting in DCS. 

[Germane]

It is quite possible that these are the "normal" VR shortcomings. Things that look still "ok" in 2D look pretty bad in VR (low textures, trees etc...)

[markturner1960]

well it is possible with the right blend of tweaks and settings to get great looking scenery etc in VR.......100%

[BazzaLB]

I find adding some CAS sharpening helps a lot for distance. I typically do this via OpenXR Toolkit. Not sure if you have that option available with the Pimax toolset you are using or not. When doing so you have to strike a happy medium between sharp and grainy. I use values depending upon the game anywhere between 60% - 90%

Edited July 4, 2023 by BazzaLB

[nachomaga]

Not sure if is still on the rule not talking about other flight simulators, but lately I’ve being flying in the “other” big flight simulator (mostly airliners) and have the same feeling OP has in DCS.

Different engines and render technology, of course, but there is a difference in clarity in the distance (cockpit is perfect in both). Don’t know why.

[freehand]

It's the nature of the beast.  

[Flextremes]

This was a known complaint with the Crystal Beta, clarity was lacking for objects and scenery at a distance. New glasses should have fixed this supposed 'focus' problem.

I wonder if this is the same (residual) issue you guys are experiencing.

On my Quest Pro (and Reverb G2) clarity is equal for all distances. 

I have the Crystal on order, this makes me apprehensive.

[lefuneste01]

On 7/4/2023 at 4:31 AM, BazzaLB said:

I find adding some CAS sharpening helps a lot for distance. I typically do this via OpenXR Toolkit. Not sure if you have that option available with the Pimax toolset you are using or not. When doing so you have to strike a happy medium between sharp and grainy. I use values depending upon the game anywhere between 60% - 90%

 

You can also use my mod to set different sharpen settings for outside world and cockpit.

[Burt]

On 6/30/2023 at 12:43 AM, Callsign.Vega said:

So I've been bouncing back and forth between my Pimax Crystal and 4K monitor.. and something has stood out at me. Keeping the same graphical settings, 4K monitor at 4K resolution, and Crystal at 100% native resolution.

 

On the 4K monitor, both the cockpit and the outside world (ground, buildings, other airplanes) look clear crisp and detailed. But with the Crystal in VR, the cockpit is super clear but the outside world (ground, buildings, other airplanes) look like poo. Flickering, popping textures, low resolution, fuzzy aircraft etc. 

 

What am I missing? System in sig. 

 

Not really gonna beat the crispness of a 2d monitor - closest is a Varjo Aero and prescription inserts. 2D is truly amazing in DCS that's where it truly shines. Sometimes I wonder "Sometimes" why I even switched to VR and mostly its because of the immersion of really sitting in a cockpit and feeling to G's that's not felt in 2D pancake mode. 

[Zoomer]

Quality of the hmd and poor anti aliasing. Currently running a Reveb G1 with a 4090. I run without msaa and am happy with the resolution (above the res of the G1) and 90fps, but we need DLSS / proper AA. New hmds with better panels will bring the increased quality to match monitors. Still I can only fly in VR and will never return to pancake mode, no comparison. If VR stopped being supported in DCS I'd never fly again despite spending a considerable sum on a simpit, perpherals and probably the best PC build that can be built atm.

I may go the quest pro route or wait for the new valve hmd.

[Callsign.Vega]

On 7/4/2023 at 2:06 AM, nachomaga said:

Not sure if is still on the rule not talking about other flight simulators, but lately I’ve being flying in the “other” big flight simulator (mostly airliners) and have the same feeling OP has in DCS.

Different engines and render technology, of course, but there is a difference in clarity in the distance (cockpit is perfect in both). Don’t know why.

 

Yup, why I returned my Crystal. Even with its resolution and glass lenses, only the cockpit looked clear. Outside world and other planes etc looked really low resolution. And the aliasing of wires/towers and flicker was super annoying.

I moved to Samsungs top of the line QN95C 65" 144 Hz 4K display for my sim pit and haven't looked back with regards to VR. IMO as a real pilot, the VR "in cockpit" feel I think is more impressive for non-pilots to experience but the novelty wore off on me quick. Wasn't worth all the negatives. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Callsign.Vega

[BazzaLB]

Did you try some CAS Sharpening first? Did you run MSAA?

Edited July 8, 2023 by BazzaLB

[nachomaga]

10 hours ago, BazzaLB said:

Did you try some CAS Sharpening first? Did you run MSAA?

 

Not sure if you are asking Vega, but I use max MSAA in DCS, but from last year I think is not working very well in VR.

CAS Sharpening is a reshade thing, right? never tried.

[YoYo]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:43 AM, Callsign.Vega said:

So I've been bouncing back and forth between my Pimax Crystal and 4K monitor.. and something has stood out at me. Keeping the same graphical settings, 4K monitor at 4K resolution, and Crystal at 100% native resolution.

 

On the 4K monitor, both the cockpit and the outside world (ground, buildings, other airplanes) look clear crisp and detailed. But with the Crystal in VR, the cockpit is super clear but the outside world (ground, buildings, other airplanes) look like poo. Flickering, popping textures, low resolution, fuzzy aircraft etc. 

 

What am I missing? System in sig. 

 

Welcome in Todays VR World. Wait a little, maybe in 2028 the quality will be the same like on 2D monitor ;).

Some settings are possible but GPU for this not yet, maybe RTX 6090 :D?

Edited July 8, 2023 by YoYo

[SharpeXB]

4 hours ago, YoYo said:

Welcome in Todays VR World. Wait a little, maybe in 2028 the quality will be the same like on 2D monitor ;).

Some settings are possible but GPU for this not yet, maybe RTX 6090 :D?

Well the quality/performance cost curve is a moving target. So VR will never catch up with 2D

[Qcumber]

46 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

So VR will never catch up with 2D

Until both VR and 2d exceed the capabilities of the eyeball. 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Qcumber said:

Until both VR and 2d exceed the capabilities of the eyeball. 

That would mean game graphics which are so good that they’re indistinguishable from reality. That point might indeed arrive.