Next Red Heli?

[Logan54]

There are 3 Redfor heli modules: Hip, Hind, Kamov. And 3 Bluefor: Huye, Gazelle, Apache. Soon we will see Kiowa, Bo-105 and Chinook. Seems to me we need new red heli in this way for balancing. Am I wrong? 

As I noticed Red can have more cargo/troops helis, so can we see Mi-26 or may be next gen night ops Hip with multicrew? IR sensors highly recomended, because there are officially no specialized night ops red heli.

Thanks.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Logan54

[okopanja]

Not soviet, but rather a mix of blue and red. Gazelle was actually produced in Yugoslavia and incorporated modified soviet weapons.

Here is demonstration of Gazelle with Strela-2m missile (in addition to 4xATGMs)

 

[WinterH]

I wouldn't mind getting some description of Mi-2, preferrably one of the UPGs with crazy armament options. I'd love Mi-28 or Ka-52 too, but they really don't seem likely at all. Something big like Mi-6 or Mi-26 would be cool too.

[okopanja]

What about naval helicopters?

[bies]

14 minutes ago, okopanja said:

What about naval helicopters?

Ka-25 would be great, just like SH-60, operating from small rocking flight decks of cruisers, destroyers, frigates, but that would require ASW to be modeled in DCS to be have any real purpose.

[Silver_Dragon]

27 minutes ago, okopanja said:

What about naval helicopters?

That require ED build Sonar engine and improve ASW funtionality and better Sub AI. to propper use them. For them, I think there is more chance of seeing an SH-60 than a Ka-25 Hormore, Ka-27 Helix or a Mil Mi-14 Haze. Another problem is how to get data for Soviet/Russian sonobuoys, depth charges, acoustic torpedoes, radar and dipping sonar.

About Soviet / Russian helos, a Mi-6 Hook or a Aérospatiale SA 321 Super Frelon. And DCS never go to "balance".

Edited July 11, 2023 by Silver_Dragon

[Grennymaster]

the Mi-26 would be an instant buy for me. I saw one in real life many years ago and man that thing is just amazing.

Mabye it could be possibly in a few years to get hands on an havok. or a newer version of the MI24

[Northstar98]

The only ones that are of particular interest to me right now is the Mi-24V and D (the former should be fairly easy, seeing as there's a fair bit in common with the current P), the V is the most prolific version AFAIK and is probably the most distinctive variant, and the D has more operators.

I would love to see naval helicopters but outside of the Ka-29 and Ka-31, they're all dedicated, or at least primarily geared, towards ASW (for helicopters such as the Ka-25, 27PL and Mi-14) which is as good as absent in DCS World, beyond attacking surfaced submarines with conventional anti-surface weaponry. Getting ASW to a level where it would be worth using IMO, would require what could be an entire game's worth of content and functionality to be implemented and many of the systems are classified with little to no information on their operation and capabilities. Even non-ASW applications such as (C)SAR and transportation need work to be useful in a naval setting.

Spoiler

For ASW:

• We would need working ASW sensors beyond just visual, radar and ESM, such as active and passive sonar and MAD, which are by far the dominant ASW sensors for aerial platforms (and sonar is the dominant for everything else).
• To support the former, we need a hydroacoustics model, which in turn would need to account for things like the sound velocity profile, thermoclines, convergence zones, shadow zones and surface ducts (which would all probably entail a raycasted setup). We would also need the sounds of naval units to undergo a major overhaul as right now nearly every vessel has the exact same sound regardless of the configuration of the propulsion system - a submerged diesel-electric submarine sounds no different to a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, which sounds no different from a diesel-engined fast attack craft, which sounds no different to a gas-turbine powered guided missile cruiser.
• Some form of ASW and counter ASW for AI ships, submarines and aircraft. Right now the ship/submarine AI is incredibly basic - only able to follow user-defined waypoints and fire weapons. The AI won't manoeuvre offensively (apart from some units with fixed mounts that will turn to bring their weapons to bear (so far only the Type VIIC U-boat, S-100 Schnellboot, La Combatantte IIa and possibly the Tarantul III), nor defensively and has no concept of ASuW or ASW tactics.
• ASW weapons - apart from the Mk 46 and Yu-6 (though both of those just behave like WWI-style gyroangle torpedoes, as opposed to being active/passive acoustic homing (+ wire-guided for the Yu-6) with their proper search patterns). We were supposed to get the Mk 40 Destructor and Mk 63 Quickstrike mines for the F/A-18C (which are both bottom, influence mines converted from Mk 83 bombs), but these were removed from the roadmap. Beyond that, we have plenty of ships that IRL have ASW capability, be it from lightweight (Mk 46/50/54) and heavyweight torpedoes (SET-53), anti-submarine missiles (RPK-3 Metel, RPK-6 Vodopad and RUM-139 ASROC-VL) and rocket-propelled depth charges (RBU-6000 and Udav-1) but none are implemented.
• We'd probably need some western submarines if we're talking specifically REDFOR helicopters.

For air-sea rescue we're missing a rescue hoist (which is the #1 way rescue at sea is performed by helicopter), I guess this also relates to fast-roping to deploy forces too.

For transportation, it is currently impossible to embark infantry from or to a naval unit, we can slingload items from ships but not to ships (unless they're stationary) and even if these problems were solved, slingloading would still lack a practical purpose for DCS.

As for transport helicopters, while I certainly wouldn't say no, personally I would like them to be able to do more than just slingload items that are just eye-candy with no practical function in the game (aside from fudging a use with triggers) or be able to carry functional units besides from infantry (such as vehicles, towed artillery, ammunition etc).

Edited October 8, 2023 by Northstar98

[Logan54]

Officially, Ka-29 can cary as 16 troops as (8*ATGMs+2*S-8 pods or 4*S-8 pods or 2*S-8 pods+2*UPK-23-250 pods or napalm tanks)+7.62 gun in nose. Seems it can be really dangerous weapon, much more powerfull and maneurable then any other heli. Also we know about Ka-29 was successfully used in special ops on Caucasus (during Chechen war) as air corrector of Ka-50 group.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Logan54

[Logan54]

This heli with mounted 2A42 (photo) Seems mixed Hip+Hind concept but much maneurable

null

Edited July 12, 2023 by Logan54

[Silver_Dragon]

By russian forum Ka-29 no in plans, I think by limited available info and actual situation.

[Logan54]

1 минуту назад, Silver_Dragon сказал:

By russian forum Ka-29 no in plans, I think by limited available info and actual situation.

Yep.. sad about it. How to check what is the next red heli? Seems not only me worry about this question.

[Silver_Dragon]

The situation has very limited. Modern Russian and Chinesse helos has discarted. Old soviet I think only centred on transport. About Chinnesse... a Harbin helo has on same situation.

[ACS_Dev]

This is just speculation on my part but I think the next red helicopter won't be new at all.

It will be a Mi-8 2.0 DLC upgrade.

Think about it. Yeah, the Mi-8 already is fairly complete but I wouldn't put it beyond E.D to put a price on functioning multicrew, much less an updated 3D model. What did we ultimately get with the KA-50 III beyond a 3D model and the associated new pylons? INS a MWS and some MANPADs. Now, to be fair to ED it only costs $10 full price and as a Hip owner myself I wouldn't be up in arms about it so long as the legacy hips got multicrew for free.

Would you buy a $10 upgrade for the MI-8 that gave you, for example:
-New 3D model
-ATGMs with associated panels
-Maybe some AGS 30 door guns
-Maybe troops and cargo in the cargo bay?
+multicrew for it and the legacy hip

I certainly might.

[MAXsenna]

3 hours ago, ACS_Dev said:

Would you buy a $10 upgrade for the MI-8 that gave you, for example:
-New 3D model
-ATGMs with associated panels
-Maybe some AGS 30 door guns
-Maybe troops and cargo in the cargo bay?
+multicrew for it and the legacy hip

Yes! 

[corbu1]

Chinese Z-19 or Z-10? 

Or Z-20 the Chinese Black Hawk?

[Logan54]

Puma bc it was in Rambo, bc why not?(joking)

Edited July 13, 2023 by Logan54

[FoxAlfa]

Mi-8 "Getto Gunship" upgrade plz.... ATGMs, Bomb sight, Nose NSV, 3d cockpit update.... or Mi-2 Light helo to offset Light Blue helos.

[Velik]

Actually, there is nothing new or interesting inside Ka-27/29.

Modern Mi-8 model like AMTSh or MTV-5 with navigation, night vision, flir and defense would be more useful.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Velik

[okopanja]

12 hours ago, ACS_Dev said:

-Maybe troops and cargo in the cargo bay?

do not forget small sized vehicles... . In video you can see AR-55 (Fiat Campagnola)

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by okopanja

[Logan54]

Ok, ED no cool Red heli in future by the way, what about this? 

 

 

[Logan54]

Mi-2 

 

[FlankerKiller]

On 7/12/2023 at 8:18 PM, ACS_Dev said:

INS a MWS and some MANPADs.

So a new and complex system, a massive update to surviveablity, and an entirely new capability and weapon. Yeah nothing at all. I for one would pay for an older Mi-8 to go with our Mi-24P. 

[MortalMando]

Either way, I feel that it will be harder for redfor groups in dcs to compete in pvp servers with the other side. Releasing a lot of cool blue for jets and rotors would leave quite a mark on how other squadrons are organized. As a leader of a redfor helo group I hope to get at least a modernized version of anything that is out for us already. I wouldn’t even shy away to pay full price for an upgrade.