Cant taxi straight, cant maintain straight run during takeoff

[razo+r]

51 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

An axis lever on my X56 stick. Mossie appears to taxi with differential braking. Brake lever controls pressure amount and rudder control differential pressure. It works fine. My issue is rudder dance. Using differential brake, evena tiny amount during roll ensures a ground loop.

Not if you apply it properly. You can 100% use differential braking in your takeoff roll without doing ground loops.

51 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

No amount of rudder dance can arrest that once it starts. 

Remember, the effectivness of your rudder depends on your speed. If you are still slow and swing one way, your rudder may not be effective yet and you have to apply differential braking again. However, if you make sure your tailwheel is properly aligned, you have no need to use differential braking and the workload on your rudder will also be limited.

 

[Bozon]

If you are doing a rudder dance, you are already doing it wrong. If you handle it correctly, the Mosquito requires very little rudder and/or differential braking inputs.

The key ingredients:

1. Align the tail wheel and get to a complete STOP.

2. Trim rudder right till the indicator points to the letter “T” of “Trim”. Elevators two notches forwards (a long press). Ailerons 1 notch to the right. Flaps 10 degrees on the gauge.

3. While on brakes, bring the power up to 10–12 boost - no more at this stage! Do not let go of the brakes before the power stabilizes.

4. Let go of the brakes. If you start veering off, apply rudder to resist until fully deflected - if this is not enough (it will not be at slow speeds) only then tap the brakes lever while still at full rudder deflection. When the veering is negated try to hold course with the rudder alone - no sudden changes, and no dancing on the rudder!

5. Within a couple of seconds you will be able to completely overcome any veering off tendencies with the rudder alone. Do not use the brakes if the rudder alone is sufficient! From this point, rudder inputs should be minimal and smooth.

5. Do not mess with the throttles until you have a strong rudder response - then you can go full power if you like.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Bozon

[4eyes]

1 hour ago, Bozon said:

If you are doing a rudder dance, you are already doing it wrong. If you handle it correctly, the Mosquito requires very little rudder and/or differential braking inputs.

The key ingredients:

1. Align the tail wheel and get to a complete STOP.

2. Trim rudder right till the indicator points to the letter “T” of “Trim”. Elevators two notches forwards (a long press). Ailerons 1 notch to the right. Flaps 10 degrees on the gauge.

3. While on brakes, bring the power up to 10–12 boost - no more at this stage! Do not let go of the brakes before the power stabilizes.

4. Let go of the brakes. If you start veering off, apply rudder to resist until fully deflected - if this is not enough (it will not be at slow speeds) only then tap the brakes lever while still at full rudder deflection. When the veering is negated try to hold course with the rudder alone - no sudden changes, and no dancing on the rudder!

5. Within a couple of seconds you will be able to completely overcome any veering off tendencies with the rudder alone. Do not use the brakes if the rudder alone is sufficient! From this point, rudder inputs should be minimal and smooth.

5. Do not mess with the throttles until you have a strong rudder response - then you can go full power if you like.

 

Number #1 is the most important. Many people get in trouble "after" they have cold started and taxi for some time to get into position to take off. They pull out and turn to prepare to take off, and in most cases their tail wheel is pointing in the wrong direction. If the tail wheel isn't straight, you will fight it during take-off. Spin in circles, fly off the runway, and take out everyone around you.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

On 8/2/2023 at 9:05 AM, Bozon said:

If you are doing a rudder dance, you are already doing it wrong. If you handle it correctly, the Mosquito requires very little rudder and/or differential braking inputs.

The key ingredients:

1. Align the tail wheel and get to a complete STOP.

2. Trim rudder right till the indicator points to the letter “T” of “Trim”. Elevators two notches forwards (a long press). Ailerons 1 notch to the right. Flaps 10 degrees on the gauge.

3. While on brakes, bring the power up to 10–12 boost - no more at this stage! Do not let go of the brakes before the power stabilizes.

4. Let go of the brakes. If you start veering off, apply rudder to resist until fully deflected - if this is not enough (it will not be at slow speeds) only then tap the brakes lever while still at full rudder deflection. When the veering is negated try to hold course with the rudder alone - no sudden changes, and no dancing on the rudder!

5. Within a couple of seconds you will be able to completely overcome any veering off tendencies with the rudder alone. Do not use the brakes if the rudder alone is sufficient! From this point, rudder inputs should be minimal and smooth.

5. Do not mess with the throttles until you have a strong rudder response - then you can go full power if you like.

 

Flaps 10 degrees. HOW!!!!!  My flaps can only go down all the , or be UP all the way.  The lever has no intermediate. WTF!

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Sorry nothing is working here.

With due respect to the guy that says "You are doing it wrong". Well.... you know.

I'll keep trying until trial ends then eff this mod. This is absurd.

Edited August 4, 2023 by DmitriKozlowsky

[Bozon]

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Flaps 10 degrees. HOW!!!!!  My flaps can only go down all the , or be UP all the way.  The lever has no intermediate. WTF!

Look, from your replies it is obvious that you are in over your head. There are some basics that you need to learn about each specific plane. Did you do the tutorial missions? Did you read one of the guides (dcs’s or Chuck’s)?

https://chucksguides.com/

[razo+r]

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Flaps 10 degrees. HOW!!!!!  My flaps can only go down all the , or be UP all the way.  The lever has no intermediate. WTF!

You didnt read what I wrote, did you. I explained how you can select any flap setting you want. 

Edit: Hmm, I dont see a few posts in here anymore. I wonder where they went. 

But to explain once more:

The flap lever has 3 positions, Flaps up, neutral and flaps down. If you move the flap lever back to neutral after putting it in up/down position, the flaps will stop at their current position. This allows you to set any flap position. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by razo+r

[Art-J]

1 hour ago, razo+r said:

Edit: Hmm, I dont see a few posts in here anymore. I wonder where they went. 

They're still there allright, just in the other forum thread by Dmitri (the "Hard to pitch down" one).

@DmitriKozlowsky It has to be honestly said you come off as a person who's first to argue and rant about something, but doesn't bother reading manuals, or reading other player advices, or reading only few of them. Maybe it's a wrong impression, but that's the one you give with your posts.

While I agree it's more difficult to learn something from vague and non-quantitive descriptions like "short" or "a little", there are things you rant about both in this and the other thread, which are explained and shown in the manuals as literally as possible - if you only read them. I don't own I-16 module, but for all other DCS warbirds the following notes apply:

a) All warbirds that have trims, have also some trim indicators in cocpkit or markings on trim wheels. These are all shown and described in manuals. Every manual also says how much trim has to be applied for takeoff;

b) All warbirds have some flap indicators, either in cockpit or on wings. These are also shown and described in manuals and the manuals say how to operate flaps and what flap settings must be used for takeoffs and landings;

c) All warbirds have some form of manifold pressure gauges. What units these gauges are in is irrelevant. Inches/PSI/ATA/mmHG/whatever -  the manuals say this or that number of units of manifold pressure is required for takeoff, climb, cruise. Same for engine RPM. All in plain numbers, you just have to memorize/note them and follow them.

Most of procedures in DCS warbird manuals are copy-pasted from real life, historic manuals, so you won't find more detailed instructions anywhere.

Moreover, videos from guys who recorded takeoffs with Ctrl-Enter window enabled at least show you approximately how much aileron/rudder/brake they used. Although not perfect resource, that's as direct and literal as one can show in a video, what else do you want?

Instead of doing 100+ unsuccessful takeoff attempts with probably wrong technique (you know what they say - it's not smart to repeat the same mistake all the time and expect different result), maybe you should stop after 30, read other players' advices, watch these videos, and then come back to the plane and try a little different approach? You have to put in some effort, but do it smarter. Reading the manual or Chuck's guide first is a must, at least chapters about cockpit instruments and takeoff & landing procedures. You might also experiment with takeoff help slider in special options. I would not recommend using it, because it causes conflict with your ruder inputs and teaches you bad habits in the long term, but some people prefer to learn a new module with it switched on.

In the end, maybe taildragger prop planes are indeed just not something for you. In real life not all training pilots get cleared to fly them either. Some never manage to learn how to handle them and stick to tricycle landing gear planes instead and that's OK. In DCS, the fact that Mosquito doesn't have a tailwheel lock doesn't help either. As I said, I don't own I-16, but have read it's quite difficult on the ground and not a good plane to train in. If you really want to learn taildraggers, spend more time with Mustang then, it's the only warbird in DCS that has a steerable tailwheel and, unlike in Il-2GB series, that feature makes a huge difference here and helps novice pilots a lot.

[razo+r]

7 minutes ago, Art-J said:

They're still there allright, just in the other forum thread by Dmitri (the "Hard to pitch down" one).

I see, forgot about that one. Thanks.

[SloppyDog]

On 8/2/2023 at 11:05 AM, Bozon said:

If you are doing a rudder dance, you are already doing it wrong. If you handle it correctly, the Mosquito requires very little rudder and/or differential braking inputs.

The key ingredients:

1. Align the tail wheel and get to a complete STOP.

2. Trim rudder right till the indicator points to the letter “T” of “Trim”. Elevators two notches forwards (a long press). Ailerons 1 notch to the right. Flaps 10 degrees on the gauge.

3. While on brakes, bring the power up to 10–12 boost - no more at this stage! Do not let go of the brakes before the power stabilizes.

4. Let go of the brakes. If you start veering off, apply rudder to resist until fully deflected - if this is not enough (it will not be at slow speeds) only then tap the brakes lever while still at full rudder deflection. When the veering is negated try to hold course with the rudder alone - no sudden changes, and no dancing on the rudder!

5. Within a couple of seconds you will be able to completely overcome any veering off tendencies with the rudder alone. Do not use the brakes if the rudder alone is sufficient! From this point, rudder inputs should be minimal and smooth.

5. Do not mess with the throttles until you have a strong rudder response - then you can go full power if you like.

 

Thanks man.

 

I've been struggling with take-offs in the Mossie since launch. 

The fact of not going full throttle AND not using brakes has helped me a lot. Now it is controllable.

This combined with a little adjustment on my pedals curves made it possible to enjoy this module again.

[4eyes]

3 hours ago, SloppyDog said:

Thanks man.

 

I've been struggling with take-offs in the Mossie since launch. 

The fact of not going full throttle AND not using brakes has helped me a lot. Now it is controllable.

This combined with a little adjustment on my pedals curves made it possible to enjoy this module again.

Your very correct. But, when you have to "cold start" and taxi around for awhile, everything changes.  Getting and keeping the tail wheel straight can be a frustrating nightmare.  I watched a program about the Mosquito awhile back. They said 80% of all Mosquito losses, or damage to aircraft happened during pilot training take-offs and landings! 

[SloppyDog]

17 hours ago, 4eyes said:

Your very correct. But, when you have to "cold start" and taxi around for awhile, everything changes.  Getting and keeping the tail wheel straight can be a frustrating nightmare.  I watched a program about the Mosquito awhile back. They said 80% of all Mosquito losses, or damage to aircraft happened during pilot training take-offs and landings! 

Well, we have the benefit of the virtual life on the sim. I imagine how it had been in real life. Poor crews, didn't have any benefit from modern simulators or a proper accident analysis cycle. 

 

[Munin]

I just tried the Mossie and was quite surprised how easy it was for me to take-off in.

Put some curves and dead zones on my (crappy) joystick, 50% fuel, no flaps, a rolling start with slow throttle up to maybe 70%, using the rudders with stick in stomach until 80-100 mph with liftoff after ~1000 m (no wind). Didn't change any trim until airborne when I had to trim down quite a lot.

 

[Hiob]

On 9/5/2023 at 4:51 PM, Munin said:

I just tried the Mossie and was quite surprised how easy it was for me to take-off in.

Put some curves and dead zones on my (crappy) joystick, 50% fuel, no flaps, a rolling start with slow throttle up to maybe 70%, using the rudders with stick in stomach until 80-100 mph with liftoff after ~1000 m (no wind). Didn't change any trim until airborne when I had to trim down quite a lot.

 

When it is too easy, you might wanna check the special options. Maybe you have activated some of the helpers.

But, I don't have any particular problems taxiing and taking of in the Mosquito either. So maybe, it is just a matter of chemestry between pilot and machine.

[Munin]

No everything is set to 0. Maybe because I have flown almost only warbirds the past 2 years and are used to be gentle and not firewalling the throttle. These birds are ridiculously overpowered. Making sure I take off and land into the wind is also something that helps. AI and ATC often (most of the time?) don't.

 

[Hiob]

30 minutes ago, Munin said:

No everything is set to 0. Maybe because I have flown almost only warbirds the past 2 years and are used to be gentle and not firewalling the throttle. These birds are ridiculously overpowered. Making sure I take off and land into the wind is also something that helps. AI and ATC often (most of the time?) don't.

 

I think most of the problems people are facing comes from the the way differential braking works and is needed on take off. 

And I strongly recommend to bind the braking lever on the paddle switch/lever on the stick if possible. Doesn't matter if it is an axis or a button. The fade in/ fade out on the Mosquito brakes work well with a digital button, too. 

[Customizer171]

On 8/2/2023 at 4:05 PM, Bozon said:

If you are doing a rudder dance, you are already doing it wrong. If you handle it correctly, the Mosquito requires very little rudder and/or differential braking inputs.

The key ingredients:

1. Align the tail wheel and get to a complete STOP.

2. Trim rudder right till the indicator points to the letter “T” of “Trim”. Elevators two notches forwards (a long press). Ailerons 1 notch to the right. Flaps 10 degrees on the gauge.

3. While on brakes, bring the power up to 10–12 boost - no more at this stage! Do not let go of the brakes before the power stabilizes.

4. Let go of the brakes. If you start veering off, apply rudder to resist until fully deflected - if this is not enough (it will not be at slow speeds) only then tap the brakes lever while still at full rudder deflection. When the veering is negated try to hold course with the rudder alone - no sudden changes, and no dancing on the rudder!

5. Within a couple of seconds you will be able to completely overcome any veering off tendencies with the rudder alone. Do not use the brakes if the rudder alone is sufficient! From this point, rudder inputs should be minimal and smooth.

5. Do not mess with the throttles until you have a strong rudder response - then you can go full power if you like.

 

Thanks a lot!

I've also had big problems when trying to get the Mosquito off the ground. Following these steps I made beautiful takeoffs three times in a row. I haven't made that many successful takeoffs in two months, lol.

[stuart666]

Yes, taking off used to be impossible for me as well. Since the tips ive read elsewhere on this board, it really is rather easy, as long as you pay attention. Running the engines up, and use brakes till you get effective rudder input is the key I think. I cant say my takeoffs are always beautiful, but I dont crash anymore.

[Morat]

It might be worth the OP double checking his bindings by putting the controls on screen for his next takeoff. If they're fine - just show us the video of your next attempt and we can watch your inputs.

 

I also crashed quite a few Mossies on takeoff but I've got a handle on it now. I'd say the Spit is harder.

[Aitch5]

I've been really struggling with take off (never had problems with the P51) and about 1 in 10 takeoffs are successful but the successes I  manily put down to luck rather than skill. 

I've been using the DCS Mosquito Take off practice mission for the Caucuses (its in the Instant action option) to practice as it puts you at the start of the runway ready for take off.

Following the steps posted by Bozon see below which helped

1. Align the tail wheel and get to a complete STOP.

2. Trim rudder right till the indicator points to the letter “T” of “Trim”. Elevators two notches forwards (a long press). Ailerons 1 notch to the right. Flaps 10 degrees on the gauge.

3. While on brakes, bring the power up to 10–12 boost - no more at this stage! Do not let go of the brakes before the power stabilizes.

4. Let go of the brakes. If you start veering off, apply rudder to resist until fully deflected - if this is not enough (it will not be at slow speeds) only then tap the brakes lever while still at full rudder deflection. When the veering is negated try to hold course with the rudder alone - no sudden changes, and no dancing on the rudder!

5. Within a couple of seconds you will be able to completely overcome any veering off tendencies with the rudder alone. Do not use the brakes if the rudder alone is sufficient! From this point, rudder inputs should be minimal and smooth.

5. Do not mess with the throttles until you have a strong rudder response - then you can go full power if you like.

 

What seems to have a made a big difference for me is setting the flaps to nearer 25 degrees rather than 10.  Setting the brakes to a button or trigger to the joystick has also helped but try to use these as little as possible (if I start yo yoing early then I usually can't recover unless I stop completely come to a halt).  If you have the channel map - try the Take Off Practice mission on there as the runway (Manston) is much wider and seems more grippy (but I could  be wrong). 

Its not easy flying the Mosquito in DCS but then as others have said it wasn't easy in real life either. 

[_Hoss]

Un-bind your throttles and use each lever for its specific engine. If you yaw to the left, bump the left throttle a bit more, and vice versa if you yaw right. Its kind of like using a T-handle stearing device. This works for taxi,, and take-off runs. You won't need to use the over sensitive breaks. There is a thread somewhere on how to adjust curves to slow down the sudden locking of the breaks. 

Good luck

Edited March 19 by _Hoss

[Bozon]

3 hours ago, _Hoss said:

Un-bind your throttles and use each lever for its specific engine. If you yaw to the left, bump the left throttle a bit more, and vice versa if you yaw right. Its kind of like using a T-handle stearing device. This works for taxi,, and take-off runs. You won't need to use the over sensitive breaks. There is a thread somewhere on how to adjust curves to slow down the sudden locking of the breaks. 

Good luck

 

Unfortunately, many players do not have dual throttles (myself included). Pilots of mosquitoes and other twins describe using different methods, at least 3 that I can think of:

1. Differential power control via the throttles with little to no rudder & brakes inputs.

2. Gradually "leading" with one throttle (left in case of the mosquito) up to full power to counter the base yaw tendency, and using rudder for course adjustments.

3. Starting with partial & equal power to both engines until minimal control speed is reached while correcting with rudder + brakes, and opening up when brakes are no longer required. May not be ideal vs. #1 & #2 above, but this is what I use with a single-axis throttle controller.

I should probably get the VKB dual throttle, or something similar.

[Jim Bob]

Well, after reading this thread because I found myself in a similar position to OP where I felt like a total failure with this aircraft, I'm actually feeling much better about things. I only picked up the Mossie a couple of days ago, and I've spent a frustrating amount of time spinning and exploding in flames trying to get the bird off the ground.

 

But now I'm reading about how difficult the Mosquito was to fly in real life, and that most - if not all - other Mossie pilots in DCS have experienced this massive learning curve. And that's great, because it means I'm not alone. So now, all I want to do is keep practicing. It's changed my mindset and increased my confidence and determination. So much so, that I've just successfully completed my first takeoff, took a short flight along the Kent coast, unloaded the cannons and machine guns into a few ground targets, and RTB. Unfortunately, my landing didn't go as smoothly! So I'll keep trying!

 

Huge thanks to those who have shared their tips and advice! 

[Munin]

12 hours ago, Bozon said:

Unfortunately, many players do not have dual throttles (myself included).

Using the keyboard 8, 9, 0-keys you can control the engines separately. 8 selects left, 9 both, 0 right.

When selecting both (9) again an analog throttle synchronizes both engines so it can be an abrupt change it you don't watch it, while using the numpad + and - as throttle the offset is kept.

I use it to do tight turns while taxing.

[grafspee]

8 hours ago, Munin said:

Using the keyboard 8, 9, 0-keys you can control the engines separately. 8 selects left, 9 both, 0 right.

When selecting both (9) again an analog throttle synchronizes both engines so it can be an abrupt change it you don't watch it, while using the numpad + and - as throttle the offset is kept.

I use it to do tight turns while taxing.

I can't imagine to use 8 9 keys to control left and right engine separately during take off roll, thigs are going way to fast to pull this off with single axis and 8 9 selector.