Dual Purpose Naval Guns

[MBot]

This is an old request of mine which I keep depositing every few years. Most of the high caliber naval guns in DCS should be dual purpose, capable to engage both surface and air targets. I would like  to see DP naval guns engage aircraft and missiles with time fused or VT shells.

Now that the land based KS-19 AA-gun is in the game, the code might be there to make the naval guns anti-air capable finally.

[Linx]

+1

That would be something.

 

[Silver_Dragon]

That has a missing feature on all naval modern guns from lomac.

All UsNavy, Russian Navy, Royal Navy and PLAN has capables vs aircrafts, and some vs sea skimmer missiles.

The problem has the lack of info and not a dedicated "Sea team" on DCS World.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

[Northstar98]

+99999

Funnily enough, Mk 38, Bofors 40, CIWS' and numerous other guns have been dual-purpose in DCS for as long as I can remember (even for systems that shouldn't like the Phalanx Block 1 on the Forrestal), though maybe there's the issue of the AI being able to select different ammunition types (and at the moment, only generic point-detonating HE rounds are available for naval guns).

EDIT: There is a larger calibre naval gun in DCS that is dual-purpose - the 3"/50 Mk 20 and 5"/38 Mk 12 guns on the LS Samuel Chase. However, it only appears to have a time fuse shell available (leading to airbursts against surface targets). If we had the various round types available (or at least the fuses, as sometimes a projectile will be common, just fitted with different fuses) and the AI was able to select which it should use based on the target, we'd be catered for (of course providing that projectiles can utilise proximity fuses and not just time fuses).

Edited December 18, 2023 by Northstar98
Addendum

[Slippa]

Have you seen these?

Not exactly what you’re after but…

[MBot]

21 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

though maybe there's the issue of the AI being able to select different ammunition types

That may be one of the problems. The 57mm AK-725 on the new Ropucha class in DCS actually engage both air and surface targets and in either case it uses the same ammunition. Which is fine as the AK-725 only has impact fused shells. But it shows that dual purpose in DCS is possible in principle.

Another problem may be that DCS cannot handle proximity fuses for shells. Some DP naval guns shoot time fused anti-air shells though, which already exist in DCS.

[upyr1]

10 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

The problem has the lack of info and not a dedicated "Sea team" on DCS World.

Starting a naval team is long overdue. DCS is the least developed in the area of naval warfare. 

[upyr1]

My wish list for naval assets would be the following

dual-purpose guns as requested,

The ability to alter missile and ammo load out

This goes for all artillery the ability to work with a spotter.

Formations- this would be nice to at least have them keep in a formation

The ability to preload landing craft with troops and vehicles 

Make amphibious warfare ships a spawning point for landing craft and amphibious vehicles. 

More ships- some that I can name on the of my head

USSR / Russia- 

Udaloy and Sovremny class destroyers

Kiev-class Vtol carrier

Ivan Rogov and other amphibious assault ships

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China-

Lailong

Type 55

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US Navy- late cold war

Knox class Frigate

Spruance and kid-class destroyers

The Long Beach or other CGNs

1980s Iowa class battleships

Vietnam

a top request here is an angled deck Essex class aircraft carrier

Galveston-class cruisers

 

WWII and Korea-

the Marianas and D-day invasion fleets, Des Moines class heavy-cruisers and while they only saw action in Okinawa I would like the Alaska class-battle cruisers

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Royal Navy-

Anything that isn't being added in the South Atlantic map

I'd love to have the Ark Royal carrier battle group and the D-day invasion fleet

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Japan-

the Marianas fleet

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Germany-

Bismark class battleships 

Pocket battleships

in short anything WW II so we can have a what if 

[Northstar98]

On 8/5/2023 at 1:23 PM, Silver_Dragon said:

The problem has the lack of info.

While there isn't much for Western guns (you can typically found round designations but not specifications on the fusing (for the most part)), ru.wikipedia does seem to have some fuse specifics for the Soviet/Russian naval guns featured in DCS:

• AK-100:
  • UOF-58: HEF projectile with 1.53 kg (of presumably AI-X-2) explosive, V-429 impact fuse.
  • UZS-58: AA projectile with DVM-60M1 time fuse.
  • UZS-58R: AA projectile with AR-32 radar fuse (set to trigger at 5 m against missiles and 10 m against aircraft).
• AK-130:
  • F-44: HE projectile with 3.56 kg (of presumably AI-X-2) explosive, 4MRM impact fuse.
  • ZS-44: AA projectile with 3.56 kg (of presumably AI-X-2) explosive, DVM-60M1 time fuse.
  • ZS-44R: AA projectile with 3.56 kg (of presumably AI-X-2) explosive, AR-32 radar proximity fuse (triggers at 8 m when fired against missiles, triggers at 15 m against aircraft).
• AK-176*:
  • UZSB-62RP: AA ZS-62 projectile w/ 400 g of AI-X-2 explosive, AR-51L radar proximity fuse which triggers <= 8 m from the target.
  • UOFB-62: HEF OF-62 projectile w/ 480 g of AI-X-2 explosive, point detonating fuse which self-destructs after 28-31 s

*Note, while the link for the AK-176 is actually for the AK-726, they allegedly share the same ammunition.

EDIT: Found information on the OTO Melara 76 mm/62 Compact [Mark 75], the AA round that it uses is the IM84 HE-PFF with 0.76 kg of composition B explosive, VTPA FB76 radar proximity fuse (which also supports point-detonation and self-destruction), which triggers 6 m from the target and nominally self-destructs after 25 s. This fuse can also used on the 76 mm L62 HE round.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Northstar98
Added 76 mm/62 OTO Melara Compact

[Northstar98]

As it's now been announced that we can expect to see a Fletcher DD, Iowa BB and Cleveland CL as PTO assets, I wanted to bump this request.

Ordnance Pamplet 1164 (circa 1947) has pretty much all the information required, navweaps.org includes ballistic tables (see here for the 5"/38 Mark 12, see here for the 6"/47 Mark 16).

The 5"/38 Mark 12 has a whole load of different A.A. Common rounds with either mechanical time (MT) or proximity (VT) fused rounds, many can be found under 5-inch projectiles, MT fuses can be found beginning here and VT fuses beginning here. Typical characteristics of 5-inch VT fuses are a minimum range of about 600 - 1000 yds and a function distance of ~60-80 ft against aircraft. Over water, fuses without wave-suppression will function between 75 - 130 ft, with wave-suppression 10 - 50 ft.

The 6"/47 Mark 16 gun is a bit easier to pin down:

• H.C. Mark 39:
  • Mk 18 Mod 2/3/4 / Mk 50 / Mk 63 Mod 0 MT
  • Mk 47 Mod 0 VT (min. range 800 yd, max. function distance ~80 ft against aircraft, ~10-30 ft above water)

Edited February 8 by Northstar98

[Mr_sukebe]

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but do the WW2 allied AAA have proximity fused shells?

[twistking]

30 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but do the WW2 allied AAA have proximity fused shells?

The British and Americans did. It was quite the technological breakthrough and was kept somewhat secret, so i'm not sure if they shared it with other allies.

Edited February 7 by twistking

[Mr_sukebe]

58 minutes ago, twistking said:

The British and Americans did. It was quite the technological breakthrough and was kept somewhat secret, so i'm not sure if they shared it with other allies.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean whether we had them for real, I meant within DCS.

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but do the WW2 allied AAA have proximity fused shells?

Nope - only MT fuses.

Nor does any naval gun (when nearly all the current ones should). The 5"/38 on the Samuel Chase also only has an MT fused round.

Edited February 7 by Northstar98

[Mr_sukebe]

Thanks for confirming.

Thats a bit of an “area of opportunity”.