Steam auth error 403 Discussion.

[Temetre]

I have bought most (but not all) of my modules via steam, mainly because of issues with ED shop payment processors (eg weird conversion stuff). I run the game on standalone usually.

But its sometimes its just useful to have another, seperate client to start a game from. Be it integration, server issues, or whatever. Idk why you think I need to justify disliking the sudden removal of a feature, especially one so integral as the distribution.

And as said, half the problem is the way its been removed. How do we know ED wont change this stuff later?

Edited October 2, 2023 by Temetre

[BIGNEWY]

6 minutes ago, Temetre said:

I have bought most (but not all) of my modules via steam, mainly because of issues with ED shop payment processors (eg weird conversion stuff). I run the game on standalone usually.

But its sometimes its just useful to have another, seperate client to start a game from. Be it integration, server issues, or whatever. Idk why you think I need to justify disliking the sudden removal of a feature, especially one so integral as the distribution.

And as said, half the problem is the way its been removed. How do we know ED wont change this stuff later?

 

I have already covered this. 

We have no plans to move away from steam.

In your case you are best to use stand alone having both steam and eshop modules. 

thank you

[Hiob]

I have a strong feeling that some people didn’t even read the EULA to begin with.

[MAXsenna]

6 minutes ago, Temetre said:

I have bought most (but not all) of my modules via steam, mainly because of issues with ED shop payment processors (eg weird conversion stuff). I run the game on standalone usually.

This doesn’t change for you. And you can still swap back and forth, though it's of course a little more inconvenient to have to unbind the account. 

9 minutes ago, Temetre said:

But its sometimes its just useful to have another, seperate client to start a game from. Be it integration, server issues, or whatever.

Fair enough. I still don't get it.  

9 minutes ago, Temetre said:

Idk why you think I need to justify disliking the sudden removal of a feature, especially one so integral as the distribution.

Because you're really ranting about something that hasn't changed. Only thing that's changed is that you can't have both platforms bound at the same time. Apologies, to be honest it seems that you don't understand this.

12 minutes ago, Temetre said:

And as said, half the problem is the way its been removed.

I assume you're referring to the communication. Agree, should at least have been two weeks notice. 

13 minutes ago, Temetre said:

How do we know ED wont change this stuff later?

What "stuff" exactly? 

3 minutes ago, Hiob said:

I have a strong feeling that some people didn’t even read the EULA to begin with.

 

[Rufuz64]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb MAXsenna:

What "stuff" exactly?

Enable the transfer from Steam to standalone for example?

[MAXsenna]

Enable the transfer from Steam to standalone for example?

A valid concern of course. But I don't see the benefit to their business, because they obviously want customers while they would prefer them to be on Standalone, so that would be shooting themselves in the head.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Temetre]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb MAXsenna:

A valid concern of course. But I don't see the benefit to their business, because they obviously want customers while they would prefer them to be on Standalone, so that would be shooting themselves in the head.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

I dont see it either, but I dont think we even know why exactly ED made this recen change. Bignew said "some people are breaking the EULA", but that doesnt really explain anything.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Temetre

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, Temetre said:

I dont see it either, but I dont think we even know why exactly ED made this recen change. Bignew said "some people are breaking the EULA", but that doesnt really explain anything.

 

It explains that some people have been exploiting the system and breaking the EULA. This change stops that exploit. 

thank you

[Temetre]

Gerade eben schrieb BIGNEWY:

It explains that some people have been exploiting the system and breaking the EULA. This change stops that exploit. 

thank you

But we dont know what that means. "Exploit" and "breaking EULA" could mean a million different things. Someone even assumed its about cheaters. 

For example, if theres a security issue and this is just a temporary change till ED has fixed it, then im 100% fine with this. But were not told anything meaningful, we just lose a feature (which I btw didnt abuse).

[MAXsenna]

I dont see it either, but I dont think we even know why exactly ED made this recen change. Bignew said "some people are breaking the EULA", but that doesnt really explain anything.

It's because you could run Standalone and Steam at the same time with the same modules on two different computers obviously.
Like I wrote above. Netflix did the exact same change.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[bonesvf103]

Checking my ED account licenses, what would it say under source if I had gotten it on Standalone? 

I take it "distributors" means it was third party?

v6,

boNes

[Temetre]

vor 1 Minute schrieb MAXsenna:

It's because you could run Standalone and Steam at the same time with the same modules on two different computers obviously.
Like I wrote above. Netflix did the exact same change.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

And I agree that ED has a legitimate interest to stop that. 

But each copy of DCS runs on EDs DRM system servers. They should have an easy time to block simultaneous use at the same time. Netflix managed to do that too.

[BIGNEWY]

Our fix was the only solution, but apologies if it has inconvenienced you. And thank you for the PM. 

[MAXsenna]

7 minutes ago, bonesvf103 said:

Checking my ED account licenses, what would it say under source if I had gotten it on Standalone? 

I take it "distributors" means it was third party?

v6,

boNes

Might depend on the date.
For some reason Steam sold me the Caucasus map. Had no idea that I purchased it.

9 minutes ago, Temetre said:

But each copy of DCS runs on EDs DRM system servers.

IDK!

10 minutes ago, Temetre said:

Netflix managed to do that too.

Not really when you share your main account, which is now "bound by IP".
Will probably break some rules if I comment further on that...

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, Beirut said:

 

Days, months, years?

 

I don't mean to be a pest, but some of us have a sizeable investment in DCS modules and hardware and just don't want any weird surprises.

 

Sorry for the delay I wanted to be sure. 

30 days if the steam account is different

but if the same account then instantly

[ColinM9991]

9 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Our fix was the only solution

Only immediate solution.

If this is indeed the issue

20 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

It's because you could run Standalone and Steam at the same time with the same modules on two different computers obviously

then I think a decent long term solution might be to remove the account linking between profiles and dedicated servers and then impose a max session limit to restrict how many active sessions a user can have at once - this limit being 1 of course.

For dedicated servers, by removing the sign-in requirement, these just become far more manageable for server admins who are used to automating and using config files over the current hacky web GUI.

Obviously more of a time investment though as it requires updates on multiple fronts.

Edited October 2, 2023 by ColinM9991

[Temetre]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb ColinM9991:

impose a max session limit to restrict how many active sessions a user can have at once - this limit being 1 of course

To be honest, I was surprised to learn this isnt already a thing. I just assumed the Steam and Standalone were treated as the same identity when linked.

[ColinM9991]

Just now, Temetre said:

To be honest, I was surprised to learn this isnt already a thing

It's standard practice nowadays. Though, I presume dedicated servers would then become an issue unless you create a new account for each server. To be honest, DCS is one of the only few games, if not the only, that I can think of which requires you to log-in just to host a server.

The convenience of having a truly headless server outweighs the benefits of having a web GUI. This would even allow GSPs to host DCS servers for those who don't know how to or aren't comfortable in managing a server via config files. For those of us who are comfortable, we'd probably use Docker anyway to containerize and automate many instances.

For GSPs, I'd imagine this would bring a decent amount of business to those GSPs and that may also give DCS some more advertising.

Maybe there's some architectural or licensing limitation - even then, a dedicated server shouldn't need module licensing, in theory.

[bonesvf103]

11 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Might depend on the date.
For some reason Steam sold me the Caucasus map. Had no idea that I purchased it.

 

Funny!  Yeah so all of my licenses are Steam or Distributors, so I guess I don't have any on Standalone.  So I'll just continue to use Steam.  I did notice that when I do, it pops up the error message but says it will use my saved authorizations and everything works fine and is there, so except for the inconvenience of having to make one extra click to close the error window, it's fine.

Just so it's known, one reason why people may have the Steam version over the Standalone version is that they did not know the Standalone version existed to begin with.  This was my case.  I had been away from simming and online gaming for so long that when I got back into it, I had heard about Steam and just thought that's how you buy software now (I was at the time still thinking you got to Best Buy and buy the box).  So I bought DCS and several modules on Steam and then along the way found that you could do it on Standalone instead.  Well, by then I had all the Steam ones and they worked (plus there were some personal preference nuances that didn't attract me to the standalone) so I just kept going on Steam. 

I just wanted to double check that none of my licenses were standalone so I can continue on Steam for the time being.

Thanks.

v6,

boNes

[BIGNEWY]

10 minutes ago, bonesvf103 said:

Funny!  Yeah so all of my licenses are Steam or Distributors, so I guess I don't have any on Standalone.  So I'll just continue to use Steam.  I did notice that when I do, it pops up the error message but says it will use my saved authorizations and everything works fine and is there, so except for the inconvenience of having to make one extra click to close the error window, it's fine.

Just so it's known, one reason why people may have the Steam version over the Standalone version is that they did not know the Standalone version existed to begin with.  This was my case.  I had been away from simming and online gaming for so long that when I got back into it, I had heard about Steam and just thought that's how you buy software now (I was at the time still thinking you got to Best Buy and buy the box).  So I bought DCS and several modules on Steam and then along the way found that you could do it on Standalone instead.  Well, by then I had all the Steam ones and they worked (plus there were some personal preference nuances that didn't attract me to the standalone) so I just kept going on Steam. 

I just wanted to double check that none of my licenses were standalone so I can continue on Steam for the time being.

Thanks.

v6,

boNes

If you continue to have auth issues please contact the team directly they will assist you 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/
or email support@digitalcombatsimulator.com

The guide below will help you provide the data needed.
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/faq/support_ticket/

Thank you
Eagle Dynamics

[artao]

4 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hey no problem, some people were confused and I am answering wherever I can. Sadly the option you suggest would still allow our EULA to be exploited. 

thank you

What does "people were breaking the EULA" mean? Must be something super serious to do this over the weekend so suddenly without telling anyone. It sure would be nice to know what that means rather than just that vague incredibly broad statement. Sure, we don't "have a right" to know, but it sure would be be appreciated by the rest of us who AREN'T breaking any EULA or anything.

I don't really know what it ultimately means to choose either Steam or Standalone. Pros and cons? I already know VR runs more smoothly if I use the "force vr" and "force openxr" run arguments, so SteamVR doesn't have to run. But what about Tacview? Will I have to reinstall that as standalone or will it still work right via Steam? It'd suck to have to have two versions of Tacview installed, cuz I use it for IL-2 as well.

Also, if I switch to standalone, what will that do to my install? I imagine it will move it out of my Steam library. Ideally the user has full control over where it ends up, as I'm quite particular about that.
A bit more clarity would be much appreciated and lend some good will to the community.

Also, "We have no plans to drop Steam" isn't exactly all that comforting, considering that before this weekend you also had no plans to make this change. It's a legit concern.

Edited October 2, 2023 by artao

[BIGNEWY]

9 minutes ago, artao said:

What does "people were breaking the EULA" mean? Must be something super serious to do this over the weekend so suddenly without telling anyone. It sure would be nice to know what that means rather than just that vague incredibly broad statement. Sure, we don't "have a right" to know, but it sure would be be appreciated by the rest of us who AREN'T breaking any EULA or anything.

I will try to make it clearer for you, some people were breaking the EULA by sharing or selling DCS accounts while continuing to use their steam DCS account. This change stops that from happening. 
 

12 minutes ago, artao said:

Also, "We have no plans to drop Steam" isn't exactly all that comforting, considering that before this weekend you also had no plans to make this change. It's a legit concern

As mentioned we will continue to use steam to sell DCS, and to allow binding of steam DCS to stand alone DCS if desired.

Steam is a great platform that reaches millions of people, it has different payment methods choices for users which is helpful, we have no issues with people using the steam version.  

[artao]

15 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

I will try to make it clearer for you, some people were breaking the EULA by sharing or selling DCS accounts while continuing to use their steam DCS account. This change stops that from happening.

Thank you. Much clearer. All we were asking. The vagueness was offputting.

How about where will the game will move and how if I switch to standalone?

And the Tacview question. From what I read originally, trying to get Tacview to work, is that for Steam DCS you have to use Steam Tacview, and for standalone DCS we have to use standalone Tacview. Is this the case or have I misunderstood something?

[BIGNEWY]

4 minutes ago, artao said:

Thank you. Much clearer. All we were asking. The vagueness was offputting.

How about where will the game will move and how if I switch to standalone?

And the Tacview question. From what I read originally, trying to get Tacview to work, is that for Steam DCS you have to use Steam Tacview, and for standalone DCS we have to use standalone Tacview. Is this the case or have I misunderstood something?

Steam FAQ can be found here:
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/faq/steam/
How to link steam to standalone:
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/personal/profile/
Download standalone here:
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/world/

and tacview works no matter which version you are using, just follow the tacview setup and it adds the scripts required. 

hope that helps

[MAXsenna]

17 minutes ago, artao said:

Thank you. Much clearer. All we were asking. The vagueness was offputting.

I understand you want an ED employee to answer, while most of it was answered if you'd read the thread.

53 minutes ago, artao said:

I don't really know what it ultimately means to choose either Steam or Standalone. Pros and cons?

End all is that it doesn't really matter. It's the same game. Steam might be easier and have a nicer launcher, while Skatezilla's for Standalone runs circles around Steam's. Steam is cheaper for some areas/countries, while you get Miles on some modules in ED's store, but you can still purchase in Steam. Nothing has changed for you in any case really.

All settings are stored in Saved Games, and TacView gets loaded there. Export.lua

58 minutes ago, artao said:

I imagine it will move it out of my Steam library

Why would you think that? You can have Steam and Standalone installed in parallel, just like you can with Stable/OpenBeta. Actually. With standalone, you can have as many versions and revisions installed as you want depending how much disk space you are willing to get. Not sure if Steam can do that.

As a Steam user only, you have lost nothing and gained nothing.

Cheers!