resolved New spotting is great / New spotting is overcooked feedback thread

[Parkour]

I'm not a 1k forum poster like some here. I just started posting about this issue a week ago as I play in VR and do not have a Pimax headset. The new "Improved" Spotting Dots has ruined the sim for me as I can't stand how they look. The broken OPTIONS > GAME PLAY ability to turn off these spotting dots is the biggest disappointment and the lack of acknowledgement the feature is broken by ED, especially the insulting post by @BIGNEWY that we should "read the patch notes again" signals to me that ED has no interest in listening to their customers and are one of those companies that sees them as complaining idiots.

They have definitely lost sales from me as I already own most maps and most of the US aircraft and was planning on the Chinook, F-15E and Kola map. These are no longer planned purchases.

I will invest my time and future in other currently available flight sims that don't have this issue and treat their customer base and developer community a bit better as I recently learned about the whole issue with RAZBAM. Throw in the entire "we have partnered with Pimax" and here is a discount code to buy one, you quickly realize the entire Spotting Dots issue and "get a Pimax and the spotting dots issue is fixed" is more than just a coincidence.

Just a sad example of hubris and a developer that has lost the passion for its user base.
 

Edited October 7, 2024 by Parkour

[Midair]

11 minutes ago, Parkour said:

I'm not a 1k forum poster like some here. I just started posting about this issue a week ago as I play in VR and do not have a Pimax headset. The new "Improved" Spotting Dots has ruined the sim for me as I can't stand how they look. The broken OPTIONS > GAME PLAY ability to turn off these spotting dots is the biggest disappointment and the lack of acknowledgement the feature is broken by ED, especially the insulting post by @BIGNEWY that we should "read the patch notes again" signals to me that ED has no interest in listening to their customers and are one of those companies that sees them as complaining idiots.

They have definitely lost sales from me as I already own most maps and most of the US aircraft and was planning on the Chinook, F-15E and KIOA map. These are no longer planned purchases.

I will invest my time and future in other currently available flight sims that don't have this issue and treat their customer base and developer community a bit better as I recently learned about the whole issue with RAZBAM. Throw in the entire "we have partnered with Pimax" and here is a discount code to buy one, you quickly realize the entire Spotting Dots issue and "get a Pimax and the spotting dots issue is fixed" is more than just a coincidence.

Just a sad example of hubris and a developer that has lost the passion for its user base.
 

I totally agree with you.

[PawlaczGMD]

1 hour ago, Parkour said:

I'm not a 1k forum poster like some here. I just started posting about this issue a week ago as I play in VR and do not have a Pimax headset. The new "Improved" Spotting Dots has ruined the sim for me as I can't stand how they look. The broken OPTIONS > GAME PLAY ability to turn off these spotting dots is the biggest disappointment and the lack of acknowledgement the feature is broken by ED, especially the insulting post by @BIGNEWY that we should "read the patch notes again" signals to me that ED has no interest in listening to their customers and are one of those companies that sees them as complaining idiots.

They have definitely lost sales from me as I already own most maps and most of the US aircraft and was planning on the Chinook, F-15E and KIOA map. These are no longer planned purchases.

I will invest my time and future in other currently available flight sims that don't have this issue and treat their customer base and developer community a bit better as I recently learned about the whole issue with RAZBAM. Throw in the entire "we have partnered with Pimax" and here is a discount code to buy one, you quickly realize the entire Spotting Dots issue and "get a Pimax and the spotting dots issue is fixed" is more than just a coincidence.

Just a sad example of hubris and a developer that has lost the passion for its user base.
 

ED made spotting work on Pimax devices and this causes you to boycott DCS because it must be a conspiracy/cash grab?   

1 hour ago, SparrowLT said:

Jumped on enigma.. went to find some enemies or allies close enought..

 

This is an example.. in this picture ther is a Viggen 2.5m away.. you can see it on radar its dead ahead same altitude

 

 

 

 

 

In the third picture there is suposed to be a MIG-21 within 5nm about same altitude arround ahead..not much devation from HUD   (shortly after in 4th picture merge..i dont know if whats on 4th its the 21 or a Viggen that was nearby that ended up shacking the 21)

 

What is your hardware/res here? 

1: barely visible at 2.5 nm, looks legit

2: I see nothing

3: clearly visible above you, no spotting dot rendered at this close distance

 

This looks perfectly fine to me.

[WindyTX]

Please sort the dots I know you are working on it, my feedback is I want the original dots back.  Not being able to turn them off the new ones is really annoying and they completely break immersion and are are unrealistic to say the least.

 

Reverb G2

[MAXsenna]

4 hours ago, Parkour said:

Throw in the entire "we have partnered with Pimax" and here is a discount code to buy one, you quickly realize the entire Spotting Dots issue and "get a Pimax and the spotting dots issue is fixed" is more than just a coincidence.

Dumbest take today. You might wanna drop the tinfoil hat. 

 

[SparrowLT]

11 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

ED made spotting work on Pimax devices and this causes you to boycott DCS because it must be a conspiracy/cash grab?   

What is your hardware/res here? 

1: barely visible at 2.5 nm, looks legit

2: I see nothing

3: clearly visible above you, no spotting dot rendered at this close distance

 

This looks perfectly fine to me.

-1080p

1-If you think a Viggen would be barelly visible at 2.5nm like a tiny 1 pixel dot when in real life i (myopic glasses user ) spot easily helicopters and GA small craft at over 6nm with NO problem when im NOT looking for them ........

2-exactly

3-Not talking about that above..posted it to show the merge of what seconds before was suposed to be AHEAD in the previous picture that cant be seen

Edited October 7, 2024 by SparrowLT

[Bounti30]

Everything has been said...
so what to do ?
ED is a business and like any business needs to sell these products for a living.
If the consumer is not happy for x reasons, no problem, he no longer spends his money. This is the only pressure lever. 
It's that simple.
everyone makes their own choices, for me no more purchases planned

Then depending on the events to come, i will see

[Turbonix]

Am 5.10.2024 um 21:13 schrieb Midair:

Now a dogfight look like this: 

                                                      -                                                        .              --

             .           -        .

We are back to the 80's!

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Bounti30:

everyone makes their own choices, for me no more purchases planned

Then depending on the events to come, i will see

As long as this issue isn´t fixed, DCS is dead for me too.

Sad for all the time and money I´ve put into this project.

I´m happy to have some alternatives. 
In IL2 for example spotting feels MUCH more realistic, even before the last DCS patch. And it has lots of other advantages in visual quality.. but that´s another topic
And i always wanted to give MSFS a shot, maybe now its the time.

so long guys..
maybe see you later
maybe not 

[Turbonix]

DCS spotting blobs in action! YAY! 
 

 

 

[KoN]

Stopped supporting DCS maybe around COVID . I really wanted the phantom but now the server's are empty of it , I hardly see one now . 

Strange to be honest with all the melt down over 24 hour delay.

Servers flown:

enigma, 

Cont 80s,

Hoggit,

Blue flag ,

Grey flag ,

Rottor heads, 

Overlord, now empty , well last time I checked few weeks back . 

Looking forward to :

IL-2 KOREA ,

COMBAT PILOT , 

BMS , 

MSFS , 

STAR CITIZEN VR ,

And a new VR headset with 15% off so I can see targets ,  

Which I'll never afford . 

Edited October 7, 2024 by KoN

[Michal]

Please make a hotfix ASAP. This is the worst DCS update in a long time.

[Avenger31]

1 hour ago, Michal said:

Please make a hotfix ASAP. This is the worst DCS update in a long time.

I am flying from 2013 and this is THE WORST update since then. And I cant believe that they not doing notning to help us with small hotfix

[Ebolaboy]

DCS: Minecraft Edition

I actually burst out laughing when this javelin of B17s showed up. What I don't get is where is the testing on these patches before they are released? Is there any? Because anybody seeing this would realise that this - as an option amongst all the options people have described in this thread - is not the acceptable one to release.

I also noticed that as the formation got closer, the black boxes grew small pixel "tails" out the back which on close inspection were the actual aircraft. So, to add insult to injury, the aircraft then proceeded to fly along with the boxes still attached to their nose - basically a combination of two options or representations of the aircraft at once.

Just make the "off switch" work and I'm guessing a very large proportion of people - particularly single player - will be happy.

[chichowalker]

I think here we have 2 problems:
- Testing phase concentrating in Pimax Crystal visor. When Q3 with difference visor most used for the community in VR, poll is indicating that with 23,5%.
- Needed to use QV Foavated. For me I don't care to have it integrated in DCS but I don't like. Lot of users continue using OpenXR toolkit, mandatory for very good experience, setting up resolution override (for me best way to do it, better than meta app, ODT or OTT) and postprocessing colors.

For sure, if you are dealing with this 2 conditions, improved spotting dot OFF works properly. Rest of setups, piece of ...

One clear example is when in dogfight, if enemy extends or bugs out more then 2 miles you can not see the aircraft shape, you see a very nice black square maneuvering....

Enviado desde mi SM-G981B mediante Tapatalk
 

Edited October 8, 2024 by chichowalker

[S-GERAT]

36 minutes ago, chichowalker said:

I think here we have 2 problems:
- Testing phase concentrating in Pymax Cristal visor. When Q3 with difference visor most used for the community in VR, pol is indicating that with 23,5%.
- Needed to use QV Foavated. For me I don't care to have it integrated in DCS but I don't like. Lot of users continue using OpenXR toolkit, mandatory for very good experience, setting up resolution override (for me best way to do it, better than meta app, ODT or OTT) and postprocessing colors.

For sure, if you are dealing with this 2 conditions, improved spotting dot OFF works properly. Rest of setups, piece of <profanity>.

One clear example is when in dogfight, if enemy extends or bugs out more then 2 miles you can not see the aircraft shape, you see a very nice black square maneuvering....

Enviado desde mi SM-G981B mediante Tapatalk
 

Pimax crystal also have the same issue.. I really dont know how is working fine for some people..

[Avenger31]

@BIGNEWY sorry for the ping and bothering you, but I would like to ask on behalf of myself and the community if something spectacular is happening regarding the spotting dots issue? 
 

Does anyone in ED fly like us and this situation bothers them like most of us, or no one flies, or everyone has problems with their eyesight so this situation is great for them?
 

I understand that you are working on improving the existing algorithms so that the spotting dots are nice for every headset, and that is good and I appreciate your efforts during all these years of work on improving the most popular simulation. But there are also those of us who do not want to use spotting dots at all, and the only thing we are looking for is the option to turn them off, as it existed before the big update.

I would like you to inform us about the situation: will you restore the possibility to turn off spotting dots, if you want, everything is ok, I will wait until the next big update if necessary. But it's a problem if you don't think about it at all, but you want us all to always have some kind of spotting dots on, and this communication so far makes me think that way.
 

PLEASE ADVISE.

[BIGNEWY]

15 minutes ago, Avenger31 said:

@BIGNEWY sorry for the ping and bothering you, but I would like to ask on behalf of myself and the community if something spectacular is happening regarding the spotting dots issue? 
 

Does anyone in ED fly like us and this situation bothers them like most of us, or no one flies, or everyone has problems with their eyesight so this situation is great for them?
 

I understand that you are working on improving the existing algorithms so that the spotting dots are nice for every headset, and that is good and I appreciate your efforts during all these years of work on improving the most popular simulation. But there are also those of us who do not want to use spotting dots at all, and the only thing we are looking for is the option to turn them off, as it existed before the big update.

I would like you to inform us about the situation: will you restore the possibility to turn off spotting dots, if you want, everything is ok, I will wait until the next big update if necessary. But it's a problem if you don't think about it at all, but you want us all to always have some kind of spotting dots on, and this communication so far makes me think that way.
 

PLEASE ADVISE.

Hi, 

as mentioned in our change log 
 

• Improved Spotting dots.  Adjusted appearance of spotting dots in VR to be close to their previous state. We are looking at feedback. Currently we are working on the advanced functionality for spotting dots rendering which will depend on VR hardware type and its properties which we hope to deliver in future patches to address difference in dots sizes between different VR devices and monitors.

@NineLine and I have passed on lots of feedback from this thread and from discord, the team know it is an important issue to resolve, as soon as I have more news to share or that are any changes we will let you all know. 

thank you 

[Avenger31]

8 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

as mentioned in our change log 
 

• Improved Spotting dots.  Adjusted appearance of spotting dots in VR to be close to their previous state. We are looking at feedback. Currently we are working on the advanced functionality for spotting dots rendering which will depend on VR hardware type and its properties which we hope to deliver in future patches to address difference in dots sizes between different VR devices and monitors.

@NineLine and I have passed on lots of feedback from this thread and from discord, the team know it is an important issue to resolve, as soon as I have more news to share or that are any changes we will let you all know. 

thank you 

Thank you a lot, now I can wait. 

[SharpeXB]

8 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

as mentioned in our change log

Yes, we’ve all read the change log, we are looking for more of a response than that. It’s apparent nobody at ED has tested this feature. Could you please just give us an Off option? That can’t be so difficult. Then you can continue messing around with the dots at your own pace. Thanks

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, SharpeXB said:

Yes, we’ve all read the change log, we are looking for more of a response than that. It’s apparent nobody at ED has tested this feature. Could you please just give us an Off option? That can’t be so difficult. Then you can continue messing around with the dots at your own pace. Thanks

We are looking at the claim spotting dots can not be turned off, it seems to be different depending on hardware / res. I hope we can have a change in the next patch, but I can not be sure yet. 

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, Ebolaboy said:

I also noticed that as the formation got closer, the black boxes grew small pixel "tails" out the back which on close inspection were the actual aircraft.

A flaw that’s inherent in the whole concept, it’s drawing dots over aircraft that are large enough to be visible and hiding them. At least dot labels float over the aircraft and allow you to see it. This whole spotting dot idea is terrible and needs to be scrapped. I don’t think there is a way to ever make it work. Just give us a mission setting to turn them off.

22 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

We are looking at the claim spotting dots can not be turned off, it seems to be different depending on hardware / res. I hope we can have a change in the next patch, but I can not be sure yet. 

Thanks. This also needs to be a true Off option not just a toggle to the old 2.8 version. Off should mean no spotting dots at all. And it should be a mission option for the same reason that dot labels are, plus the spotting dots seem to be exploitable by simply lowering the resolution to make them bigger.

Edited October 8, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Avenger31]

18 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Thanks. This also needs to be a true Off option not just a toggle to the old 2.8 version. Off should mean no spotting dots at all. And it should be a mission option for the same reason that dot labels are.

This is what we all want!

[SharpeXB]

9 minutes ago, Avenger31 said:

This is what we all want!

Yes. It’s doesn’t make sense that these aren’t controlled in multiplayer when dot labels are. These are essentially the same thing and should be regulated in the same manner. Also as far as I can tell the spotting dots are easily exploitable by just lowering resolution to make them bigger. 

1 hour ago, Avenger31 said:

or everyone has problems with their eyesight so this situation is great for them?

This is certainly a factor. I’ll bet a good portion of the DCS player population is over 50 and suffers from presbyopia as I do myself. But in nearly all cases this is correctable. And I get it that everyone doesn’t have perfect eyesight but that’s why labels are an option in the game. They shouldn’t be forced on for everyone though and we shouldn’t all suffer for the sake of a few stubborn people who won’t go see an eye doctor.

[Avenger31]

10 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

 

. They shouldn’t be forced on for everyone though and we shouldn’t all suffer for the sake of a few stubborn people who won’t go see an eye doctor.

You are right, I am also for that they make this even perfect for people who needs it, but for us that dont want to have it ON just make OFF option. 

[draconus]

Guys, please, calling devs and other users old farts and accusing them of bad eyesight as the only reason for using dots implementation is not helping the case if you haven't notice yet!

Let's just focus on realistic aircraft visibility - the fighter size aircraft should not be so easily detectable by human eye from many miles away. Unfortunately, current version of DCS presents these targets as big blocky labels which looks bad and is unrealistic. This does not fit to the otherwise great study sim. This is the confirmed case for many VR players with no option to either turn this off or even go back to previous spotting iteration. That's why we ask for a hotfix to at least give the option those of us that don't like such helpers. Thanks!