stuttering on 2.9

[BIGNEWY]

10 hours ago, Tigh said:

That'll be my TrackIR. Looks like you've solved that so thank you!

My windows is up to date, I ran the slow repair as well.

Tried various settings in the same scenario including turning down clouds, turning off shadows, turning off DLSS, etc. with no noticeable change. Limiting to 90fps helps frame rate stability compared with 180 which is just a stuttery mess.

One thread suggested it was MT causing issues so I tried ST. With frame locked at 180 the rates sit around 120-130 with only a small variance. With frames locked at 90 it is back to 2.8MT silky smooth. I'm loosing c. 1/3rd-1/2 of my frame rate running ST vs. MT but I can live with that if it gives me smooth performance.

For my specific setup something has changed with 2.9 which has pretty much broken MT.

 

Additional: @BIGNEWY found your mt.lau thread (sorry I didn't see it earlier, so many threads!). MUCH better. 2.9MT fps hovers around 140 with only a 15-20 frame variance, the very odd stutter in heavy urban areas. With DLSS on I'd say the frame rate is a little less stable but is giving me an extra 40 fps. Locking at 90fps in this configuration and it just sits at 90fps. Lets face it, 90fps in a flight sim is pretty amazing.

I'd be interested if the team feels there's more refinement needed with DLSS as it is a relatively early iteration for DCS.

 

Thank you for the feedback and good to hear you have improvement 

[BIGNEWY]

 

18 minutes ago, Vigo68 said:

The gameplay constantly freezes every 3 seconds (when big spikes goes - see pictures) in SINGLEPLAYER, not depending on multithreading or single threading and settings . Does not matter about changes (Win 10, 11, unpark cores, MT file, pure client etc). In multiplayer does not freezes ( same settings as singleplayer)  

dcs.log 162.54 kB · 0 downloads DxDiag.txt 108.89 kB · 0 downloads

The Integrity Check failed and you do not seem to be running multithreading version of DCS, I would recommend you run the MT version as much as possible to try eventually ST DCS will be removed, so best to get as much data and tweak now. 

Delete all unofficial mods and do a slow repair of DCS.

Below is also a script error

Error
bad argument #2 to 'format' (string expected, got nil)
Line
53
Script
.\Scripts\RPC.lua
Error
bad argument #2 to 'format' (string expected, got nil)
Line
53
Script
./Scripts/RPC.lua

 

[Vigo68]

After slow repair and deleted mods  - no change  and as I mentioned above  I have this problem only in singleplayer (both, multi-core and single-core have this bug), multiplayer runs without freezing with same settings. Only way is rollback to 2.8

 

dcs.log

Edited December 10, 2023 by Vigo68

[Checkmate]

I went ahead an erased my harddrive and installed Windows 11 hoping that would improve the stuttering issue since I was running Windows 10. This seems to have made things worse. Now I have stuttering ever second no matter what I do. 

I have the same issue as #Vigo68. It does not matter if I run MT or ST or make any graphics changes. When I look at FPS graph I see a masive green spike ever second. I'm wondering if something in Windows 11 is running in the background causing the DCS stutter? 

 

 

 

 

dcs.log

Edited December 14, 2023 by Checkmate

[Hiob]

On 12/10/2023 at 2:13 PM, Vigo68 said:

After slow repair and deleted mods  - no change  and as I mentioned above  I have this problem only in singleplayer (both, multi-core and single-core have this bug), multiplayer runs without freezing with same settings. Only way is rollback to 2.8

 

dcs.log 90.24 kB · 1 download

 

Have you tried to deactivate the power service in windows? That seems to help quite a lot for some people.....

I had the exact same pattern of frametime spikes as you have, but they were gone at some point. But I have a Ryzen not an Intel.......

Edited December 14, 2023 by Hiob

[Checkmate]

1 minute ago, Hiob said:

Have you tried to deactivate the power service in windows? That seems to help quite a lot for some people.....

I had the exact same pattern of frametime spikes as you have, but they were gone at some point. But I have a Ryzen not an Intel.......

 

I'm using Windows 11. I went under System / Power / and set Power Mode to Best Performance, which had no effect.

Are you running Windows 11 and if so do you no where to go to deactivate it?

[Hiob]

5 minutes ago, Checkmate said:

I'm using Windows 11. I went under System / Power / and set Power Mode to Best Performance, which had no effect.

Are you running Windows 11 and if so do you no where to go to deactivate it?

open the start menu, type in services and look for the service "power" (may be called differently in other languages. E.g. in german it is Dienste/"Stromversorgung"). Double click it and set startup to "disabled". Restart Windows.

Worst case, nothing happens, and you can revert it the same way. Note that on a notebook, you may loose battery time.

For reference: (Different approach, but tackles a similar problem)

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Hiob

[Hawkeye60]

And check the  USB power saving check boxes.

Every time widows up-dates,

it resets these to default, on.

Windows will shut off your usb devices this way after it thinks they are not used to save power.

I always double check this setting.

Regardless of any other power setting.

[Zimmerdylan]

"agreed, but careful.  DCS moderators are very protective and will sting you."  DCS will not punish people who aren't being rude about their problems or are telling the truth. 

 I guess that I should clarify my relationship with DCS and E.D. I have been here since the very first days of "Blackshark". I remember purchasing the disc at Best Buy a loooong time ago. I remember being instantly (insanely) frustrated and hopelessly hooked at the same time. My frustration wasn't with the software or how it worked. My frustration was with the complexity and needs of the game itself. I had no rudder pedals, a simple Logitech stick, no headtracking stuff, and a keyboard only. No HOTAS or external control surfaces other then my $39.00 Joystick. My graphics card was a stock chipset that came with my Dell PC that was a stock, home use system. As I progressed into DCS over time I started purchasing all of the hardware, video cards, and Track IR (no VR in them days). All of this was very expensive stuff. All told, I have invested thousands into simming. Much of that money was initially because I flew DCS. Over the years I purchased pretty much every module that came out. Some of them I have only flown once or twice in all of the years that I have had them. Some maps, I have never really flown extensively. I wanted to support the cause. So I have invested enough time and money into this sim that it gets very frustrating when things are not going well. Unfortunately, that scenario plays our more often than not these days. The same issues have always been kind of a nuisance from the earliest days (nature of the beast). But it wasn't so bad that you just wanted to quit. Now a days, It's much worse than the beginning. Keep in mind that I have a pretty beefy gaming computer now. It will run much more demanding sims than this one. It will even seamlessly run the monster sim that loves to eat memory. We all know the one I'm talking about.

A year or two ago I stopped purchasing from E.D. Between the lost promises of several purchases and the way that it struggles on my system to play well enough for me to enjoy it, I just realized that I was putting my money into something that I wasn't enjoying so much any more. It kind of made me angry with E.D. to be honest. But I haven't stopped buying stuff for the purpose of punishing anyone, I stopped because the return on my investment had shrunk considerably and I wasn't getting out of DCS what I felt that I was putting into DCS. To be fair, I did pre-purchase the F-4 a few days ago. The first thing I have bought from DCS in a long time.    

 I love DCS / I hate DCS. I want to enjoy this big sandbox, but on my computer, and in my view, it's not the same as it use to be. I recon that I will probably always fly DCS and enjoy it whenever it's possible. But there are times that I have to just remove it from my system and fly other simulators. I also removed the other sim I had mentioned earlier. For similar reasons. But I am 2 versions behind on the other sim and have no plans to buy any new iterations of it.  The difference is that I always come back to DCS because I really like it and would love to enjoy it again. Venting about it and seeing others who suffer the same issues really helps. But please understand, I do like DCS.

 I like cooking too. When I burn myself or slice my finger with a sharp knife while doing it. I yell, curse, and move on. If a dish that I make taste bad, I simply stop making it. 

[LOW_Hitman]

Am 14.12.2023 um 16:31 schrieb Hiob:

open the start menu, type in services and look for the service "power" (may be called differently in other languages. E.g. in german it is Dienste/"Stromversorgung"). Double click it and set startup to "disabled". Restart Windows.

Worst case, nothing happens, and you can revert it the same way. Note that on a notebook, you may loose battery time.

For reference: (Different approach, but tackles a similar problem)

 

 

Worst case windows will stop runnin. Is there any proof that it helps to disable important windows processes? And - dont understand me wrong - but giving advice to disable and change settings and processes within your operating system to make a game running is very dangerous. And this can have a dramatic impact. In my point of view a game should run and work correctly with a modern operating system and should not bring us to a point to create a unstable system to "optimise it for dcs" - DCS should be optimised for windows and not windows for dcs.

[Molnija1985]

11 minutes ago, LOW_Hitman said:

Worst case windows will stop runnin. Is there any proof that it helps to disable important windows processes? And - dont understand me wrong - but giving advice to disable and change settings and processes within your operating system to make a game running is very dangerous. And this can have a dramatic impact. In my point of view a game should run and work correctly with a modern operating system and should not bring us to a point to create a unstable system to "optimise it for dcs" - DCS should be optimised for windows and not windows for dcs.

absolutely agree...

[Molnija1985]

Guys, first sorry for my broken English...

From what I understand in this thread, it looks like a lot of people are having the problem - including me. 

I describe my problem in this thread:

Could this be the exact problem described here?

 

[Molnija1985]

It looks like currently the only workaround that really works is unlocking the parked CPU cores. 

I was impatient and applied the given workaround - it works. Warning: this is an intervention in the windows system, please consider it, everyone acts at their own risk

Edited December 15, 2023 by Molnija1985

[Hiob]

4 hours ago, LOW_Hitman said:

Worst case windows will stop runnin. Is there any proof that it helps to disable important windows processes? And - dont understand me wrong - but giving advice to disable and change settings and processes within your operating system to make a game running is very dangerous. And this can have a dramatic impact. In my point of view a game should run and work correctly with a modern operating system and should not bring us to a point to create a unstable system to "optimise it for dcs" - DCS should be optimised for windows and not windows for dcs.

You assume, that it is unknown what this service actually does. Which is not the case, disabling and enabling certain services is not a weird trickery, but a feature. It’s of course mostly for admins and advanced/power users and not for John Doe. People who don’t feel comfortable to tinker with the OS are obviously not the target group for such things. They have to wait until someone else figures out a solution for them.

And when you think that it is always the application who is at fault and not the OS (which can be very weird/broken/inefficient), you are naive.

Most likely it is a combination of both. But hey, you do you.

For me DCS is running fluid and flawless again with 2.9 and MT and I‘m trying to help others who also don’t wait for an solution or who just have fun tinkering with their system. The latter is actually very useful for learning how all that stuff works, which in turn can help to find solutions on your own.

And by the way - disabling the power service is child‘s play. If that scares you already, you would be horrified with most of the other stuff that I have done with my system.

DON‘T get me wrong - There is absolutely nothing wrong in being just a user, who wants stuff working and don’t want to dive into the inner workings of it. Nothing!

But don’t assume, something is dangerous just because you don’t care about it or don’t understand it.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Hiob

[rob10]

4 hours ago, LOW_Hitman said:

Worst case windows will stop runnin. Is there any proof that it helps to disable important windows processes? And - dont understand me wrong - but giving advice to disable and change settings and processes within your operating system to make a game running is very dangerous. And this can have a dramatic impact. In my point of view a game should run and work correctly with a modern operating system and should not bring us to a point to create a unstable system to "optimise it for dcs" - DCS should be optimised for windows and not windows for dcs.

I really hope that ED can figure out what is causing people problems, but realize that for the majority (I'd hazard a guess the vast majority) it's working well.  It sucks that it's not for some, and I'm very happy that I'm not one of them, but ED is clearly working on figuring out what the problem is and I would be shocked if their final solution is to have users needing to mess with a bunch of settings on their computers.  BUT, it's likely not a simple solution that can be pushed out tomorrow (since it's not everyone or near everyone with the issue) and if I had the issue I'd be happy for the help that other users are offering as a WORKAROUND until it can get fixed properly.  I definitely don't see anyone saying it shouldn't be fixed, and no indications at all that ED aren't trying to fix it.

[LOW_Hitman]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Hiob:

You assume, that it is unknown what this service actually does. Which is not the case, disabling and enabling certain services is not a weird trickery, but a feature. It’s of course mostly for admins and advanced/power users and not for John Doe. People who don’t feel comfortable to tinker with the OS are obviously not the target group for such things. They have to wait until someone else figures out a solution for them.

And when you think that it is always the application who is at fault and not the OS (which can be very weird/broken/inefficient), you are naive.

Most likely it is a combination of both. But hey, you do you.

For me DCS is running fluid and flawless again with 2.9 and MT and I‘m trying to help others who also don’t wait for an solution or who just have fun tinkering with their system. The latter is actually very useful for learning how all that stuff works, which in turn can help to find solutions on your own.

And by the way - disabling the power service is child‘s play. If that scares you already, you would be horrified with most of the other stuff that I have done with my system.

DON‘T get me wrong - There is absolutely nothing wrong in being just a user, who wants stuff working and don’t want to dive into the inner workings of it. Nothing!

But don’t assume, something is dangerous just because you don’t care about it or don’t understand it.

 

I understand your point, but iam using PC's since the 1990's and there are people who created and developed operating systems. And then there comes a user and thinks he knows more than all these guys from microsoft. Stopping this service and deleting this service and after a few month their pc's are doing "strange things", they get blue screens and stuff like that and of course THAN its microsofts fault.

But i dont agree that i have to turn wheels and adjust me pc deep in the operating core settings to make a game run better. Because (as we see in DCS) a patch later all those "adjustments" making things worse because the developer has to work with a "non adujested operating system" They can't develop dcs on the basis of - how their users are tweaking their systems.

Yes of course, change some settings within "for example" nvidia system settings and so on is ok - thats the sense of this programms, but dont compare this kind of adjustments with "tricks" by changing registry settings or windows default processes.

Some of the developers of operatings systems doing their jobs for decades, but sure you are not afraid to show that you know more that this persons.

I personally use DCS only in VR and iam happy about every single fps i can get out of my system, but the red line for me is to tweak windows core processes. And calling a person dumb or a chicken because he dont touch windows core settings is a way to much Isn't it?

 

And finally, iam very very happy with this kind of support from ED. Its not easy to support such a simulation and making steps forward, because every single little thing you change can have a dramatic impact. Its fine that you enjoy it to tweak you system after every single patch. For me its also ok to give feedback but there is a red line where i have to say, iam a customer and not a person from the developer team, i pay for the game and the modules and iam not willing to rearrange my operating system for only one game.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by LOW_Hitman

[BIGNEWY]

On 12/14/2023 at 3:06 PM, Checkmate said:

I went ahead an erased my harddrive and installed Windows 11 hoping that would improve the stuttering issue since I was running Windows 10. This seems to have made things worse. Now I have stuttering ever second no matter what I do. 

I have the same issue as #Vigo68. It does not matter if I run MT or ST or make any graphics changes. When I look at FPS graph I see a masive green spike ever second. I'm wondering if something in Windows 11 is running in the background causing the DCS stutter? 

 

 

 

 

dcs.log 78.93 kB · 0 downloads

 

The attached log is ST, I would recommend you stick with MT and try to work the issues out. 

Tuning Tips
 
Turn down Anisotropic Filtering.
Turn off SSLR.
Set Water to Medium or Low.
Turn off SSAO.
Consider using DLAA.
Set Shadows to Medium.
Disable civil traffic.

Look at the core parking tweak people are using it has helped many, disable hotplug in DCS controls, if you overclock try default clocks.

Note:
I would recommend if people are having issues to make your own threads with logs and dxdiag. 

When everyone jumps into one thread and discusses different logs and opinions it does not help.

thanks

[Hiob]

1 hour ago, LOW_Hitman said:

I understand your point, but iam using PC's since the 1990's and there are people who created and developed operating systems. 

I don’t think you actually understand what a hot patchworked mess an operating system like windows actually is. Per default it runs a ton of services/processes that are completely useless (unless you operate a fax ). Some of those are easily 20 years old and basically never touched.

Another thing you probably aren’t aware of is, that windows is not designed to run games. Modern gaming is merely an afterthought.

And by the way - I don’t know what kind of achievement that should be, but I‘m also using Microsoft OS‘s since that time (MS-DOS 5.0 iirc), so we seem to be of similar age.

Btw. Regarding those brilliant „creators and developers“ who made windows. I‘m not changing their code or something. I‘m just making use of the features THEY implemented for that exact reason.

Edit: And credit where credit’s due to microsoft - windows has improved a lot in the years. Because I didn’t have a Bluescreen in a decade or so…. (since W10 I can’t remember a single one)

Edited December 16, 2023 by Hiob

[darkman222]

DCS was playing back fine with 2.8. Now with the issues of 2.9 there are all those threads popping up how to optimize Windows, what to disable or enable now. Maybe even suggesting that my CPU magically starts overheating, the exact moment I updated to 2.9. What a coincidence.

The percentage of time making DCS playable again after an update is higher than actually playing it.

Please give me one of that magic inhouse DCS testers PCs that always seem to have no issues before a new update is published. I'll pay any price for that PC.

Sorry for this not helpful post. Just needed to say that.

 

Edit: BTW all my settings are set to LOW, there is no more headroom to play with. And I have tried all the major things suggested. If not right from the start, DCS will turn into a stutterfest for sure after a certain amount of play time.

Edited December 16, 2023 by darkman222

[LOW_Hitman]

vor 41 Minuten schrieb Hiob:

I don’t think you actually understand what a hot patchworked mess an operating system like windows actually is. Per default it runs a ton of services/processes that are completely useless (unless you operate a fax ). Some of those are easily 20 years old and basically never touched.

Another thing you probably aren’t aware of is, that windows is not designed to run games. Modern gaming is merely an afterthought.

And by the way - I don’t know what kind of achievement that should be, but I‘m also using Microsoft OS‘s since that time (MS-DOS 5.0 iirc), so we seem to be of similar age.

Btw. Regarding those brilliant „creators and developers“ who made windows. I‘m not changing their code or something. I‘m just making use of the features THEY implemented for that exact reason.

Edit: And credit where credit’s due to microsoft - windows has improved a lot in the years. Because I didn’t have a Bluescreen in a decade or so…. (since W10 I can’t remember a single one)

 

Iam with you, there are a lot of useless services within windows. But also the impact on the system isn't as big as it was years ago. In a modern PC with Multicore-processors, Hyperthreading,  NVME's and SSDs the impact is not compareable to a system 15 years ago and so the benefit by turning those services off.

Windows 10 was the biggest jump thats for sure. Iam not sure if i should upgrade my system to W11 - read a lot about the "better" management of threaded cores. Some users report about performance increase .. other report negative performance within games.

It whould be very kind if you could share data to show everyone what the impact was - before and after fps and so on after deactivating powerservice for example.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by LOW_Hitman

[BIGNEWY]

6 minutes ago, darkman222 said:

DCS was playing back fine with 2.8. Now with the issues of 2.9 there are all those threads popping up how to optimize Windows, what to disable or enable now. Maybe even suggesting that my CPU magically starts overheating, the exact moment I updated to 2.9. What a coincidence.

The percentage of time making DCS playable again after an update is higher than actually playing it.

Please give me one of that magic inhouse DCS testers PCs that always seem to have no issues before a new update is published. I'll pay any price for that PC.

Sorry for this not helpful post. Just needed to say that.

Make a new thread post your dcs log and dxdiag, it is the only way to check out what is going on. 

There is no one magic fix for everyone, there are to many reasons for potential performance issues, not all is related to multithreading. 

Again this thread will just end up in frustration for all, those trying to help and those having issues. 3338730 thread has already been hijacked.

The team are working on tweaks, looking at the data you all supply, but if we dont see the data we can not try help. 

[Ace5]

6 minutes ago, darkman222 said:

DCS was playing back fine with 2.8. Now with the issues of 2.9 there are all those threads popping up how to optimize Windows, what to disable or enable now. Maybe even suggesting that my CPU magically starts overheating, the exact moment I updated to 2.9. What a coincidence.

The percentage of time making DCS playable again after an update is higher than actually playing it.

Please give me one of that magic inhouse DCS testers PCs that always seem to have no issues before a new update is published. I'll pay any price for that PC.

Sorry for this not helpful post. Just needed to say that.

 

Edit: BTW all my settings are set to LOW, there is no more headroom to play with. And I have tried all the major things suggested. If not right from the start, DCS will turn into a stutterfest for sure after a certain amount of play time.

 

So tired of people that keep telling us "I'm not having issues so it must be you" Yeah I some how went from a perfectly smooth game and THEN just right when it moved to 2.9 it stutters every few seconds... I absolutely love this game so much that I've sank $900+ but now it's unplayable

EDIT: I've tried EVERYTHING known to man to bandaid the situation without no success.. Even my buddies with the best Gaming PCs have issues with Stuttering / FPS Spikes

 

Ryzen 7 7700

RTX 4060 ti 8gb

32gb DDR5 6000mhz

Windows 11

Edited December 16, 2023 by Ace5
Adding PC Specs

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, Ace5 said:

So tired of people that keep telling us "I'm not having issues so it must be you" Yeah I some how went from a perfectly smooth game and THEN just right when it moved to 2.9 it stutters every few seconds... I absolutely love this game so much that I've sank $900+ but now it's unplayable

Its frustrating for us trying to help as well, you have posts saying you are having issues, but no data we can look at. 

Please make a new thread with your dcs log and dxdiag

thank you

[JOKERACTS]

9 minutes ago, darkman222 said:

DCS was playing back fine with 2.8. Now with the issues of 2.9 there are all those threads popping up how to optimize Windows, what to disable or enable now. Maybe even suggesting that my CPU magically starts overheating, the exact moment I updated to 2.9. What a coincidence.

The percentage of time making DCS playable again after an update is higher than actually playing it.

Please give me one of that magic inhouse DCS testers PCs that always seem to have no issues before a new update is published. I'll pay any price for that PC.

Sorry for this not helpful post. Just needed to say that.

 

Edit: BTW all my settings are set to LOW, there is no more headroom to play with. And I have tried all the major things suggested. If not right from the start, DCS will turn into a stutterfest for sure after a certain amount of play time.

 

Hello there, please read my forum here, i got no problem, you said " I'll pay any price for that PC" ? are you serious?

 

[Ace5]

Just now, BIGNEWY said:

Its frustrating for us trying to help as well, you have posts saying you are having issues, but no data we can look at. 

Please make a new thread with your dcs log and dxdiag

thank you

I've posted my log like 10 times on discord and everyone says there isn't a issue but I'll give it ago again.

I'm not trying be rude or anything but it's getting really Repetitive when i cant play something I've invested so much money into

I'm very Appreciative for everything you guys do and will always Support you guys, just getting a bit Frustrated with these Stutters when I'm getting 140 FPS