Iraq Map Improvements over past maps, Size, and Regions

[Exorcet]

Edit - Title update since threads were merged

 

This is one of my most anticipated maps, and as a result I'd really appreciate if lessons learned from past maps are applied here. Basically everything I posted about Kola applies:

Summary of that thread:

-Allow for the ability to have military targets marked on map (toggle, on for mission building, but may be off for actual flying)

-Watch for AI limitations at airports. The AI is bad at handing airports where the runway is also a taxiway, as the takeoff time becomes huge

-More airport parking spaces, especially when you need ground alert flights, multiple players, or many triggered flights for randomness

-More large parking spots for medium/large planes, including large fighters like Su-27

 

In addition to these things, the follow are also what I consider important factors for Iraq:

Size

Ideally Desert Storm would include Saudi Arabia and the Red Sea. If this isn't possible, some kind of water should be present south of the map as a compromise for carrier operations.

Seasonal Variation

It would be nice for this old Black Sea feature to return. While there won't be snow in the region, variation in vegetation and water might be considered:

Map limits for ME

Making this larger helps in creating missions:

Increased building detail/inclusion of important buildings

I'm sure that this map will nature benefit from all the previous map experience ED has accumulated, but I also feel like the community is a good source of ideas, so I wanted to start a thread to point out concerns to help make the map as good as it can be.

Edited January 14, 2024 by Exorcet

[Exorcet]

Encompassing all the relevant areas for this map is probably impossible, but ideas and suggestions can be made. I'm most interested in the Gulf War regions, but Iran-Iraq is also quite important.

I don't know what the limits are, but I'd hope we end up with something like this:

 

Having number and distance airbases are important. On the Hormuz map for instance, many times I've run into issues with the absence of Chah Bahar and Bushehr, not to mention bases in Qatar and Saudi Arabia. Airbases populating all corners of the map helps to create more dynamic and unpredictable situations, and being able to spread assets around to more bases helps with managing AI. Getting many important bases for the Gulf War will require SA, and ideally somewhere for carriers to operate in the southwest.

[Silver_Dragon]

I dont put the hand on the fire about Iran zones.... I think "connect" with Syria to Bagdad first, and after expand to the south zones to connect with persian gulf no detail zones.

Edited January 7, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[durka-durka]

I'm personally more interested in OIF regions. Gulf War is interesting, but it's really another large flat sandy map.  

The Northern borders of Syria, Turkey, Iran have such varied terrain, so much opportunity for interesting missions.  Let's not forget Mosul.  Granted, much of the action up there was helo-based, but if ED is transitioning to a dynamic campaign with support assets like the C-130 and Chinook, it would be perfect.  Plus, there are flat lands too.

[durka-durka]

It does indeed snow there. Quite a bit, actually. Except it's in the North, sadly, an area they don't plan on giving us.  
 

The winter season will give you lots of green South of Mosul.

[SteelPig]

My wish for the scope of iraq map.



Yepp, it looks pretty large at first. But with roughly 2,7 million square kilometers it's smaller than South Atlantic map ( 3.1 million square kilometers) and some time ago ED said, it's not the pure size of a map whats holding back in first place anymore, but the amount of assets. And at this point I just hope the mentioned upgrades of the development kit could allow such a map. 

[SteelPig]

1 hour ago, durka-durka said:

It does indeed snow there. Quite a bit, actually. Except it's in the North, sadly, an area they don't plan on giving us.  
 

The winter season will give you lots of green South of Mosul.

What I've seen in the announcement in 2024 and beyond video are mountains. And there is one region in Iraq with mountains. The north. Borderlands to Iran and Turkey. 

Edited January 7, 2024 by SteelPig

[Shahriar0]

This map was on the top of my wish list and I am so excited about it. Although, as stated, when it comes to air-to-air engagement, Operations Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom are pale in comparison to the Iran/Iraq war. With the upcoming F-4E and MiG-23 in the works, we pretty much have everything we need to enact those engagements. Too bad this map is likely to exclude northern Iraq and Western Iran, specially the Tactical Fighter Base-3 in Hamedan where Phantoms were based and operated from (BTW, if I'm not mistaken Phantoms from this base were involved in operations against IS in Iraq as well.) I hope ED would at least consider including TFB-4 in Dezful (which is much closer to the Iraqi border in the south) where the F-5s were based. For this new map, we need at least one base inside Iran where we can operate from.

[durka-durka]

6 hours ago, SteelPig said:

What I've seen in the announcement in 2024 and beyond video are mountains. And there is one region in Iraq with mountains. The north. Borderlands to Iran and Turkey. 

 

Yeah originally when I think of Iraq, the only mountains are in the North.  Then I started looking on Google Earth and those mountains that are shown in the video look more similar to the Iran region due east of Baghdad.  They do not look like the mountains in Kurdistan.  So, I'm guessing here, what NineLine said in the other thread is Baghdad then South. (sadly)

I will say the sharper edges to the mountains are looking really nice, if that's indeed what we get.

[draconus]

We don't know any detailed plans for the map boundaries - these are much awaited - and while Kuwait is obvious inclusion (it is, right?!), I'd like to suggest to include Qatar (US bases), Bahrain (US bases) and Bushehr areas (F-14s base, Nuclear Power Plant) as high fidelity zones. These were omitted in the Persian Gulf Strait of Hormuz map and if they are not going to be included in Iraq map, they'll probably be left only for global world map, still low fidelity, which would be a real pity.

[SteelPig]

 

11 hours ago, durka-durka said:

Yeah originally when I think of Iraq, the only mountains are in the North.  Then I started looking on Google Earth and those mountains that are shown in the video look more similar to the Iran region due east of Baghdad.  They do not look like the mountains in Kurdistan.  So, I'm guessing here, what NineLine said in the other thread is Baghdad then South. (sadly)

I will say the sharper edges to the mountains are looking really nice, if that's indeed what we get.

We don't know how big this map will be. So "focused on Baghdad" can be the triangle Bagdad-Tikrit-Falludjah, or it can be the whole northern part of the country. We just don't know. 

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

we will share more details in a future newsletter. 

Threads merged

thanks

[Yuto]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

we will share more details in a future newsletter. 

Threads merged

thanks

Bignewy I dont know if you guys have realized but the newsletter and tease has only caused confusion for most of the people interested in the Iraq map. Its great news to hear ED is making Iraq but a lot of us would really love to know what exactly are the plans for ED when it comes to any of this. You guys mention Baghdad as being the main focus of initial release? Baghdad had barely to no importance to the Global War on Terror because most if not all of ISISs operations were in Mosul or Areas outside of Baghdad so it doesnt make any sense on why the center of initial release is Baghdad, It would be really appreciated if you guys could add more context or explain more on what the plans are for this map because what you have posted on the newsletter has caused a lot of questions and confusions. Are we going to get Kuwait? Saudia Arabia? Persian gulf? Qatar? Are any of these being planned for ODS or OIF and even GWOT because if you want to recreate an accurate Iraq map those countries would be an essential aspect of Iraq. Without any of those countries the map is going to have no purpose when it comes to past and current military operations as most of them were operated from outside of Iraq. The teaser causes even more confusion because ED ended up teasing just mountains, what mountains are these in Iraq are we seeing Kurdish/Northern Iraq? does that mean Iraq is going to have a Northern part of it planned? that doesnt fit any of what was mentioned in the newsletter, or are these mountains areas OUTSIDE of Baghdad again doesnt fit what was said in the newsletter? Has ED planned Iraq out correctly or is ED just winging this in the hopes it makes people happy? A lot needs to be clarified because none of this makes sense. You guys promise the southern parts but what southern parts? You mention no map size too. I really hope you guys could share more insight when it comes to something like Iraq which again has been asked to be added to the sim for years now all of us know ED cant share too much because it is a tease but at least clarify some of the questions asked here in this message and forum and out like the discord.

[draconus]

8 minutes ago, Yuto said:

Has ED planned Iraq out correctly or is ED just winging this in the hopes it makes people happy?

Yes, it makes a lot of people happy. For all other answers: "we will share more details in a future newsletter".

Btw, the mountains are said to be Zagros.

[BIGNEWY]

33 minutes ago, Yuto said:

Bignewy I dont know if you guys have realized but the newsletter and tease has only caused confusion for most of the people interested in the Iraq map. Its great news to hear ED is making Iraq but a lot of us would really love to know what exactly are the plans for ED when it comes to any of this. You guys mention Baghdad as being the main focus of initial release? Baghdad had barely to no importance to the Global War on Terror because most if not all of ISISs operations were in Mosul or Areas outside of Baghdad so it doesnt make any sense on why the center of initial release is Baghdad, It would be really appreciated if you guys could add more context or explain more on what the plans are for this map because what you have posted on the newsletter has caused a lot of questions and confusions. Are we going to get Kuwait? Saudia Arabia? Persian gulf? Qatar? Are any of these being planned for ODS or OIF and even GWOT because if you want to recreate an accurate Iraq map those countries would be an essential aspect of Iraq. Without any of those countries the map is going to have no purpose when it comes to past and current military operations as most of them were operated from outside of Iraq. The teaser causes even more confusion because ED ended up teasing just mountains, what mountains are these in Iraq are we seeing Kurdish/Northern Iraq? does that mean Iraq is going to have a Northern part of it planned? that doesnt fit any of what was mentioned in the newsletter, or are these mountains areas OUTSIDE of Baghdad again doesnt fit what was said in the newsletter? Has ED planned Iraq out correctly or is ED just winging this in the hopes it makes people happy? A lot needs to be clarified because none of this makes sense. You guys promise the southern parts but what southern parts? You mention no map size too. I really hope you guys could share more insight when it comes to something like Iraq which again has been asked to be added to the sim for years now all of us know ED cant share too much because it is a tease but at least clarify some of the questions asked here in this message and forum and out like the discord.

Hi, 

We understand people are excited but we shared what we were ready to share in the newsletter and the video. 

 

Quote

 

DCS: Iraq

We are also excited to announce an Iraq map coming to DCS. From Operation Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom to the War on Terror, Iraq has been one of the most significant flash points of the late-20th and early 21st centuries. The Iraq map will initially be centred on Baghdad to best provide War-on-Terror and War on Isis scenarios. Later, the map will be expanded south to provide older scenarios like Operations Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom.

 

So from the newsletter and video we shared

• the terrain centre will be Baghdad
• Later, the map will be expanded south to provide older scenarios like Operations Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom.
• In the video we also featured the Zargos mountain regions in the east.
  
  we will share more details in a reveal newsletter as soon as we are ready, and that will have much more detail of what to expect and the size. 
  
  Thanks

[Lobo LXII]

"In the video we also featured the Zargos mountain regions in the east."

Cool, So I'm guessing Diyala Province being included. I spent the end of '04 and most of '05 there. I could step out of my CHU and see the Zagros Mountains  to the east.

[Silver_Dragon]

Has some pics I suppouse has Iraq map on "2024 and Beyond".

That has not sure.
 

Edited January 8, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[Raviar]

@BIGNEWY will this map include Bushehr AFB and/or Dezful AFB and/or Hamadan AFBs and/or Tabriz AFB or generally any AFB in Iran ?

[BIGNEWY]

6 hours ago, Raviar said:

@BIGNEWY will this map include Bushehr AFB and/or Dezful AFB and/or Hamadan AFBs and/or Tabriz AFB or generally any AFB in Iran ?

We will share more detail in a reveal newsletter as we get closer to early access. 

thanks

[jeventy26]

ED, just tell me Kuwait is going to be featured (eventually) so I can sleep at night!  

[Snoopy]

18 hours ago, jeventy26 said:

ED, just tell me Kuwait is going to be featured (eventually) so I can sleep at night!  

Al Jaber AB, Kuwait was a key base post Desert Storm, during the second Iraq War & during Operation Inherent Resolve...if the base is not included in the map that will be a huge mistake IMO.

[BarTzi]

On 1/7/2024 at 7:06 PM, SteelPig said:

My wish for the scope of iraq map.



Yepp, it looks pretty large at first. But with roughly 2,7 million square kilometers it's smaller than South Atlantic map ( 3.1 million square kilometers) and some time ago ED said, it's not the pure size of a map whats holding back in first place anymore, but the amount of assets. And at this point I just hope the mentioned upgrades of the development kit could allow such a map. 

That's extremely optimistic. In my opinion, you should crop everything south of Kuwait and east of Isfahan for a more realistic depiction of what it will eventually be like. 

[SteelPig]

4 hours ago, BarTzi said:

That's extremely optimistic. In my opinion, you should crop everything south of Kuwait and east of Isfahan for a more realistic depiction of what it will eventually be like. 

Probably I should. The big question is: Will ED make a map where you can't really use an aircraft carrier?

[draconus]

7 minutes ago, SteelPig said:

Probably I should. The big question is: Will ED make a map where you can't really use an aircraft carrier?

Nevada. Iraq will have the Gulf.

[SteelPig]

4 minutes ago, draconus said:

Nevada. Iraq will have the Gulf.

NTTR came our long before Hornet, Tomcat and Supercarrier. 
And the gulf was my main reason to draw my wish for the scope of iraq map as big as I've done.