WW2 ETO future

[algherghezghez]

With the new PTO in the works can we expect the ETO to still have a future with the asset pack expanding, and maybe some new flyable aircraft or will all the focus be on the PTO from now on?

[kraszus]

+1

[davidrbarnette]

+1; I would love to see some early war stuff (think Battle of Britain) or some mid-war stuff (early P-47D, P-38, 109F & G, 190A5, etc).

[algherghezghez]

4 hours ago, davidrbarnette said:

+1; I would love to see some early war stuff (think Battle of Britain) or some mid-war stuff (early P-47D, P-38, 109F & G, 190A5, etc).

Battle of Britain in DCS is my wet dream, as is a Malta map (not necessarily with Sicily or North Africa, even the small island would be awesome for cool campaigns) but I think a late p-38 model is the most logical next step. Served heavily in both theatres, it’s not the usual single seat single engine fighter, so offers a bit of diversity, and concludes the ww2 American trio.

[Slippa]

I’d like the aircraft to match up stuff like fighting the Battle of Britain, the Battle of France before it even, as well as the rest of the duration. From Hurricanes and baby Spits to Typhoons and 262s. 

The maps are one thing, we need the right set of modules to match up sensible battles for those maps. Lightnings, Tempests, Zeros, 111s I don’t mind which is first, I want them all in DCS someday. Bombers still need somewhere sensible to come from as well as go to and the night flying ‘visibility’ or ambient lighting to go with it.  At the minute it gets a bit silly after dark.

I’m not sure there’s been a whole lot of ‘focusing’ on a particular set for very long. It seems more like bit by bit the gaps will be filled in, if we’re lucky?

 and where’s my Griffon engined Spitfire btw? 

 

[Brigg]

BoB has been done enough and thats coming from an englishman. imo italy and sciliy would be far more interesting 

 

[SteelPig]

I don't think that will be a question about "this or that". Yes, there will be a lot going on with PTO, and many of us wants PTO to stay. But that doesn't mean necessarily the European theatre will be forgotten. There is still so much room for new maps. CentralEurope/Germany when we maybe get WW2 Bombers. Eastern front. Africa. There will be the market for these maps, and therefore someone will build them some day. 

[Slippa]

8 hours ago, Brigg said:

BoB has been done enough and thats coming from an englishman. imo italy and sciliy would be far more interesting 

 

I’m an Englishman too mate, Italy would be nice.

[Mogster]

9 hours ago, Brigg said:

BoB has been done enough and thats coming from an englishman. imo italy and sciliy would be far more interesting 

 

With a few changes we can have the map for Channel 1940. The good thing about the BoB is that you can create credible scenarios with relatively few flyables and AI. The flyables are in the low hanging fruit category regarding references and surviving examples also. You can use the same, near enough, aircraft and for BoF scenarios and Barbarossa.

Id love the Med and North Africa. It’s mostly overlooked but is increasingly viewed a very significant theatre for WW2 aviation, particularly for the Luftwaffe. However MTO requires many more aircraft types, ships, carrier ops, and maps we don’t have. PTO is the same and apparently it’s a nightmare for references beyond a handful of US types.
 

 

[Silver_Dragon]

BoB module was planned by Nick Grey after F6F Hellcat, and missing Me262 module from old KS, actualy on research by ED.

Meanwhile, by ED russian forum, ED WW2 team dont move to ETO, meanwhile dont build ETO modules.

Others 3rd parties has move to ETO, as Octopus-g as i-16, La-9 & Po-2. Others 3rd parties has no show ETO modules yet.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

[Mogster]

1 hour ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Meanwhile, by ED russian forum, ED WW2 team dont move to ETO, meanwhile dont build ETO modules.

Others 3rd parties has move to ETO, as Octopus-g as i-16, La-9 & Po-2. Others 3rd parties has no show ETO modules yet.

Apologies, but I don’t understand.
 

Should Pacific Theatre Operations (PTO) or Eastern Front (EF) be in there somewhere?

[algherghezghez]

2 hours ago, Mogster said:

With a few changes we can have the map for Channel 1940. The good thing about the BoB is that you can create credible scenarios with relatively few flyables and AI. The flyables are in the low hanging fruit category regarding references and surviving examples also. You can use the same, near enough, aircraft and for BoF scenarios and Barbarossa.

Id love the Med and North Africa. It’s mostly overlooked but is increasingly viewed a very significant theatre for WW2 aviation, particularly for the Luftwaffe. However MTO requires many more aircraft types, ships, carrier ops, and maps we don’t have. PTO is the same and apparently it’s a nightmare for references beyond a handful of US types.
 

 

I don’t agree with bob requiring few assets. Map is almost fine, yeah, but no ai matches. We would at least need an early spit, hurricane, emil 109, a Stuka and a dornier 17 or a Heinkel 111 and this would be bare minimum.

I would love med as well, being Italian I would love to see some Italian aircraft in there, the macchi 200, 202 or the sm-79 would be something amazing!

 

[DD_Fenrir]

I suspect a mix up in terminology.

As a rule:

1. ETO = European Theatre of Operations = Channel and Northwest Europe

2. MTO = Mediterranean Theatre of Operations = North Africa, Italy, Greece and Southern France

3. PTO = Pacific Theatre of Operations = Pacific Islands, New Guinea, New Britain, Austrilasia, Phillipines, Okinanwa

4. CBI = China, Burma & India = the aforementioned + SE Asia

5. EF = Eastern Front = Third Reich vs. Soviet Great Patriotic War actions across Eastern Europe

 

I think Silver Dragon is including EF under ETO, which the majority of us Westerners do not.

[Mogster]

13 minutes ago, algherghezghez said:

I don’t agree with bob requiring few assets. Map is almost fine, yeah, but no ai matches. We would at least need an early spit, hurricane, emil 109, a Stuka and a dornier 17 or a Heinkel 111 and this would be bare minimum.

I would love med as well, being Italian I would love to see some Italian aircraft in there, the macchi 200, 202 or the sm-79 would be something amazing!

 

I think less assets to produce credible historical missions would be applicable maybe. There were Italian aircraft in the BoB, and TFC have a very beautiful CR-42 

The Mediterranean and Malta is quite large in the British view of WW2 also. It’s just such a large and complex theatre.

 

[Qcumber]

Maybe these will come with the global map!?

[Skewgear]

The main problem is that there are no third parties making ETO DCS content (stand fast Ugra) despite a years-long proven market.

My suspicion is ED will leave ETO with no further development as they move focus onto the PTO, which essentially means development is finished unless a third party decides to enter the market.

[umland]

not sure if they can longer affort this. Operation Barbarossa should be done. Dont understand why they only focus on new gen fighters
Real fighting is in WW2 Planes not in fire and forget planes today

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

16 hours ago, Brigg said:

BoB has been done enough and thats coming from an englishman. imo italy and sciliy would be far more interesting 

 

But has it been done well, enough? 

Clod was a hot mess.  And a long time ago.

Anything in this decade?

 

 

[Gunfreak]

24 minutes ago, [HOUNDS] CptTrips said:

But has it been done well, enough? 

Clod was a hot mess.  And a long time ago.

Anything in this decade?

 

 

Clod is getting major updates with plans for like 10 years into the future.

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

 

As it stands now,  is CloD a match for DCS in quality?

Does the VR work yet in CloD?

I think a fleshed out BoB module implemented with DCS quality would be extraordinary fun.

 

 

Edited February 10 by [HOUNDS] CptTrips

[Gunfreak]

5 hours ago, algherghezghez said:

I don’t agree with bob requiring few assets. Map is almost fine, yeah, but no ai matches. We would at least need an early spit, hurricane, emil 109, a Stuka and a dornier 17 or a Heinkel 111 and this would be bare minimum.

I would love med as well, being Italian I would love to see some Italian aircraft in there, the macchi 200, 202 or the sm-79 would be something amazing!

 

Agreed. And people forget the DCS development times 

3-5 full fidelity ww2 aircraft and 5 AI assets i 10-15 years of DCS development time.

ED has said that the Hellcat won't be in a vacuum. So ED will be busy in the PTO for 5+ years it seems.

Unless development priorities change. Expecting anything proper to happen in ETO in the near future won't happen. I don't think we'll see even fleshing out of the late 1944 thing we have going now. No hint at a 109G even as AI. Or anything else in the near future.

Each DCS module takes as much time if not more than a full IL2 DLC which comes with 10ish flyable aircraft, a map and changes to the career mode. And it's easy to see why with the huge difference in quality. After flying Normandy 2 map, the IL2 maps look almost abstract in comparison.

Yeah you see the trees and houses are supposed to be tress and house but it like monopoly houses and abstract trees. I would love more DCS ww2 of almost all types. But with the expected quality and and complexity. We have to aim lower when it comes to number of new aircraft and maps. Personally I think adding variations to exiting aircraft (P51B, razorback P47,) adding 1 new full fidelity aircraft (109G) and a few more AI aircraft is the fastest and most cost effective way of creating a proper ww2 feel for 1944.

Ideally Channel map should be expanded into the low countries to make it possible for Market garden and boddenplatte scenarios.

But even this is several years of work.

4 minutes ago, [HOUNDS] CptTrips said:

 

As it stands now,  is CloD a match for DCS in quality?

Does the VR work yet in CloD?

I think a fleshed out BoB module implemented with DCS quality would be extraordinary fun.

 

 

 

But that's 10-15 years of DCS development. We still don't have fleshed out late 1944 DCS after 10 years of WW2 dcs.

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

15 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

But that's 10-15 years of DCS development. We still don't have fleshed out late 1944 DCS after 10 years of WW2 dcs.

 

So as to my questions, I can assume your answers are, no it is not up to DCS quality, and no it hasn't released VR support?

What I was replying to was the idea that BoB should be excluded because it had been "done before".  

I agree their dev cycle is a bit obscene, but not a single PTO specific aircraft has been released yet either.  

And you can make the argument that PTO "has been done before", so that can't really be a useful criteria.

For BoB, initially all you would need is a Hurricane, Spit, and Emil.  Everything else could start out as a AI asset which should not be hard to knock up some decent external models.   

 

 

[algherghezghez]

21 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Agreed. And people forget the DCS development times 

3-5 full fidelity ww2 aircraft and 5 AI assets i 10-15 years of DCS development time.

ED has said that the Hellcat won't be in a vacuum. So ED will be busy in the PTO for 5+ years it seems.

Unless development priorities change. Expecting anything proper to happen in ETO in the near future won't happen. I don't think we'll see even fleshing out of the late 1944 thing we have going now. No hint at a 109G even as AI. Or anything else in the near future.

Each DCS module takes as much time if not more than a full IL2 DLC which comes with 10ish flyable aircraft, a map and changes to the career mode. And it's easy to see why with the huge difference in quality. After flying Normandy 2 map, the IL2 maps look almost abstract in comparison.

Yeah you see the trees and houses are supposed to be tress and house but it like monopoly houses and abstract trees. I would love more DCS ww2 of almost all types. But with the expected quality and and complexity. We have to aim lower when it comes to number of new aircraft and maps. Personally I think adding variations to exiting aircraft (P51B, razorback P47,) adding 1 new full fidelity aircraft (109G) and a few more AI aircraft is the fastest and most cost effective way of creating a proper ww2 feel for 1944.

Ideally Channel map should be expanded into the low countries to make it possible for Market garden and boddenplatte scenarios.

But even this is several years of work.

But that's 10-15 years of DCS development. We still don't have fleshed out late 1944 DCS after 10 years of WW2 dcs.

I completely agree. In my view ED should polish out the current assets using variants to raise money. I’d gladly pay for a p-51b, a razorback as you said, a griffon engine spit or even better a mkV, a G 109 or even a bomber missile. All this are relatively low work modules (of course it’s not an easy job but still easier than starting a module from scratch, especially for the mkV and the G 109). All this raising new money to keep ww2 alive. 
with the addition of a few ai assets we would really have countless new opportunities especially for campaigns.

[Gunfreak]

8 minutes ago, [HOUNDS] CptTrips said:

 

So as to my questions, I can assume your answers are, no it is not up to DCS quality, and no it hasn't released VR support?

What I was replying to was the idea that BoB should be excluded because it had been "done before".  

I agree their dev cycle is a bit obscene, but not a single PTO specific aircraft has been released yet either.  

And you can make the argument that PTO "has been done before", so that can't really be a useful criteria.

For BoB, initially all you would need is a Hurricane, Spit, and Emil.  Everything else could start out as a AI asset which should not be hard to knock up some decent external models.   

 

 

It depends on your definition of quality, in graphics and sound no not close.

In flight model not quite, but closer to DCS than IL2. In damage modeling it is superior by a good margin. In quality of AI fighting better by a huge margin. On giving a complete ww2 experience far far superior. 

VR isn't out yet. Partly because they are waiting on stuff from 3rd party things. It's being developed by a team smaller than even probably the ED bug hunting team.

10 minutes ago, algherghezghez said:

I completely agree. In my view ED should polish out the current assets using variants to raise money. I’d gladly pay for a p-51b, a razorback as you said, a griffon engine spit or even better a mkV, a G 109 or even a bomber missile. All this are relatively low work modules (of course it’s not an easy job but still easier than starting a module from scratch, especially for the mkV and the G 109). All this raising new money to keep ww2 alive. 
with the addition of a few ai assets we would really have countless new opportunities especially for campaigns.

I'd be perfectly happy to pay for P47 and especially P51 upgrade (that adds B model as well as improving the graphics quality.(like the A10 upgrade)

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

26 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

It depends on your definition of quality, in graphics and sound no not close.

In flight model not quite, but closer to DCS than IL2. In damage modeling it is superior by a good margin. In quality of AI fighting better by a huge margin. On giving a complete ww2 experience far far superior. 

VR isn't out yet. Partly because they are waiting on stuff from 3rd party things. It's being developed by a team smaller than even probably the ED bug hunting team.

I'd be perfectly happy to pay for P47 and especially P51 upgrade (that adds B model as well as improving the graphics quality.(like the A10 upgrade)

So depending on your definitions of quality:

Graphics, no.

Sound, no.

Flight model, no.

VR supported, no.

AS a consumer, I don't care how big or small their team is.  I only care about results.  I don't grade on a curve.

 

But can we agree that BoB shouldn't be discarded "because it has been done before"?

So has PTO.  Aces of the Pacific was one of my first games.   Sorry, ED.  Drop the idea of PTO, it's been "done before".

 

But I get it.  ED is dropping ETO to revector to PTO probably to strangle Combat Pilot in the crib and not leave it an unfulfilled niche. Not a bad strategy.

Regardless.  DCS Battle of Britain would be awesome, IMHO.  

 

 

Edited February 10 by [HOUNDS] CptTrips