reported earlier CCIP post-designate not working as intended

[SeaBass80]

Hi,

my original post of this problem from April 2022 became stale and has been locked recently. As the problem still persists, I repost it here.

In CCIP mode, when the time-delay cue is visible and the actual impact point is below the HUD, the following should happen upon holding WPN REL:

(1) the target designation pipper (visible in the HUD) should get glued to the chosen target point. BUG: the target designation pipper gets glued to the ground position that would have been hit if the bombs actually had released the moment WPN REL was pressed.

(2) the flight computer should guide to the release point using the azimuth steering line (ASL). BUG: The ASL stays vertically centered in the HUD and does not provide steering guidance to the target.

(3) the flight computer should release at the right moment to hit the target. This is working as intended, although the azimuth offset cannot be zeroed by the pilot due to missing ASL guidance.

The "correct" behavior is described as such in the DCS F-16 manual, so I don't think there can by any doubt about whether this is correct or not.

240229-CCIP post-designate ASL.trk

[silverdevil]

On 2/29/2024 at 12:43 PM, SeaBass80 said:

Hi,

my original post of this problem from April 2022 became stale and has been locked recently. As the problem still persists, I repost it here.

In CCIP mode, when the time-delay cue is visible and the actual impact point is below the HUD, the following should happen upon holding WPN REL:

(1) the target designation pipper (visible in the HUD) should get glued to the chosen target point. BUG: the target designation pipper gets glued to the ground position that would have been hit if the bombs actually had released the moment WPN REL was pressed.

(2) the flight computer should guide to the release point using the azimuth steering line (ASL). BUG: The ASL stays vertically centered in the HUD and does not provide steering guidance to the target.

(3) the flight computer should release at the right moment to hit the target. This is working as intended, although the azimuth offset cannot be zeroed by the pilot due to missing ASL guidance.

The "correct" behavior is described as such in the DCS F-16 manual, so I don't think there can by any doubt about whether this is correct or not.

hello. i am not sure about your steps unless i did not know it was possible. question 1: what weapon are you using? question 2: where in the manual are you finding these steps you are quoting.

everything i am reading in the manual i have says you have to fly the plane so the pipper is over the target. there is no locking in CCIP mentioned.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi we still have a report open for checking CCIP and the delay cue, I will ask the team about it again. 

thanks

[SeaBass80]

On 3/4/2024 at 1:30 AM, silverdevil said:

question 1: what weapon are you using? question 2: where in the manual are you finding these steps you are quoting.

everything i am reading in the manual i have says you have to fly the plane so the pipper is over the target. there is no locking in CCIP mentioned.

Hi,

this pertains to the employment of free-fall weapons like MK82, MK84 and such. The mode becomes particularly important for slow bombs such as CBU-87 and -97. The manual section is on page 354 "Unguided Bombs CCIP Attack (Post-Designate)". If you have the HAF -34 document, it is described in the section "CCIP Visual Submode", page 1-429.

It is correct procedure to fly the CCIP pipper onto target and depress WPN REL. If the actual impact point is below the HUD though, the HUD will still display the pipper. Upon press and hold WPN REL, guidance to release point is provided in azimuth and time. Just to clarify. Essentially when holding WPN REL, it behaves just like the CCRP submode.

[TobiasA]

CBU-97 will fall really long in post- designate CCIP, or do not release at all.

Edit: This seems to affect other weapons as well, just not as much.
CBU-97.trk

Edited March 11, 2024 by TobiasA

[Moonshine]

might be related: 

dont think its the bombs fault but the CCIP post designate

[SeaBass80]

On 3/11/2024 at 9:36 PM, TobiasA said:

CBU-97 will fall really long in post- designate CCIP, or do not release at all.

Edit: This seems to affect other weapons as well, just not as much.
CBU-97.trk

 

I tested CBU97 in CCIP post-designate, specifically for falling long or short. Seems fine on my side to within 50 yards/meters or so. Good enough from where I released it. This was flying straight ahead without steering input exactly aligned with the original flight direction. See attached track.

So there is nothing wrong as long as one the exact azimuth is hold between designate and release... not that this would be realistic for the post-CCIP designate mode. More testing needed, but I presume the problem you describe might somehow arise when azimuth error is introduced and you cannot steer back to the correct one due to lack of azimuth guidance.

240315-CCIP post-designate CBU97.trk

[NineLine]

This has been reported already, thanks!